That was exactly what I posted about .and why it was such a wrong statement It was utterly crass on her part.
Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
- Start date
Other than Crimea , ..which is or was a spiritual homeland , and is the location of their Navy, and really could and should have been ceded to Russia , I agree with you. How would you feel if the Isle of Wright was handed to the French,along with the Channel Islands? The best outcome from these negotiations would be for Ukraine to formally acknowledge Russian ownership of Crimea, but argue regarding Donbass.All probably true but probably not. (I've included a wiki to explain real reasons Russia can't be in EU or NATO)
Russia–European Union relations - Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org
But all certainly utterly irrelevant to situation we now find ourselves in. That is a belligerent dictator with a pack of lies for justification chooses to force his own Citizens with fear and lies, to invade an adjacent peaceful, democrat country and in so doing kills thousands, yet when the rest of decent humanity protest he threatens them with nuclear war. You claim he is justified in wanting a corridor to a land he previously invaded. That is insane flecc. Putin has no right to be in either Crimea or Ukraine. He had no right to send agents with novichok to uk, he had no right to poison people who speak against him. He has no right to invade anybody. Neither he or the party he in theory represents were elected. He bullied his way to power and voted himself as leader beyond 2024. Hardly EU worthy is it Flecc, unless your idea of EU has deteriorated somewhat.
And by the way Flecc, if VDL etc etc does decide to allow Ukraine into EU under emergency rules (agreed doubtful) by default EU is at war immediately with Russia.
Putin and Putin alone has caused this ridiculous affair, and as I said lots of posts ago, a comment you ridiculed, he really has gone too far this time. It's going to last years or cause ww3. Unless he backs down, which I doubt somehow.
In last 4 days or so roughly 6000 people have died. How many more before Russia comes to its senses.
I do not lie in this forum and all those are facts verifiable from Western sources. You do not even begin to know this subject yet feel you can insult me by inferring I'm posting lies. Hadn't you noticed that Woosh, almost the only other impartial member posted a Like to the post you are commenting on?
All since the facts I posted so irrelevant. Of course Russia can't join the EU now but could have done some 20 years ago as they adopted the very different course that the USA blocked. They could never have joined NATO since it was founded as a specifically anti Russian organisation.Russia–European Union relations - Wikipedia
For the umpteenth time stop lying about what I post. I have never said he was justified. Saying he was driven into what he has done is not me saying he was justified, it's just comment, not approval.
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Broadly agreed, but why argue about Donbass? An old Russian population region with long outdated and broken down industrial infrastructure. Even the Russians didn't want it until they realised it might become useful in protecting their southern fleet. I doubt they'd want it so much if Crimea was recognised by Ukraine and internationally as Russian territory.
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Oh, he was driven to it.. Sort of justifies most abuse. No he was not driven to anything.
He chose to do the things he has done, you just seem to buy his lies and rhetoric justifying it in his mind. OK, perhaps not yours.
I, m not sure why world stood by and accepted Putin just marching into Crimean. Even Danidl seems to make a distinction between it and Ukraine. No, they are one of the same. It was part of a democratic country. Ukraine. What is wrong with you flecc. Invading Crimean, Ukraine or anywhere is simply wrong. Its bullying.
As Danidl said and as I asked, what if Putin chose France, Italy or Ireland. There is no difference.
You still haven't answered the question flecc. Had Putin chose Italy over Ukraine how would you think? He was driven to it perhaps?
Woosh and yourself speak about these regions as though they are places on some board game. Risk perhaps. Putin does same.
They are not. They are peoples homes, lives and lively hoods. Kids quivering in basements tonight in Ukraine because Putin was driven to it and needs a corridor to his Black Sea Fleet. Utter bo!! ox.
He is a megalomaniac killing innocent people.
Watched a young woman yesterday teaching kids to hide under tables pretending to be turtles, with their mouths open and hands over their ears. In case they are bombed, probably with thermo baric weapons soon. Who drove Putin to that flecc. How badly does he need his black sea port. One somebody else owns.
I wonder if Woosh would be agreeing with your utter rubbish if it was his grandkids hiding under tables because I tell you now, it certainly could be soon.
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Prepare for cyberspace attacks! 
www.theregister.com
Ukraine invasion means your security needs to be on point
Data security looks very different when your life depends on it
www.theregister.com
Danidl, Woosh and I fully understand this subject so we post impartially.
You very clearly have little understanding of it so post emotionally on what you see at the moment.
We don't need you to tell us that what is going on is appalling, any fool can see that. But it takes knowledge to understand why it has happened and know all those responsible.
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Your posts prove you assume a knowledge and understanding you do not possess.
Russia-Ukraine war: What is Putin’s endgame?
The Russian president is facing an unexpected level of resistance, but is determined to continue on a belligerent path.
And predictably you also demonstrate a pretentious attitude, assuming greater understanding of situation than someone who disagrees with you, when truth be told you have simply refused to move into the 21st century and see the behaviour as demonstrated by Putin's Russia along same lines as those as Russia annexing Hungary in 1956. Times have changed flecc. What was acceptable then sure as hell isn't now.
It's not acceptable at any level that one country marches into another, especially so when done on utter lies. (denazification?)
Put your history books down flecc. Ukraine is an Independant democracy. It has been for 30 years. Nobody has a right to demand corridors, change of government or annexation.
You still refuse to answer what your opinion would be if Putin was Italy's neighbour and first annexed Sicilly and then invaded Italy/ Rome.
Why is that a silly question? Your assumption it is, highlights your antiquated views of Ukraine and its sovereign nature. It says more about your bias than your knowledge.
Ukraine has equal rights to those of every other country. Including Italy. Russia has no right of passage, entry or any such thing, other than that of using brute force and threats to enter and invade Ukraine.. Putin and yourself are stuck in 19th century.
The days of powerful countries being able to colonise weaker one's are long gone, well they should be.
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Quite the opposite as you show with your link.Your posts prove you assume a knowledge and understanding you do not possess.
Russia-Ukraine war: What is Putin’s endgame?
The Russian president is facing an unexpected level of resistance, but is determined to continue on a belligerent path.www.aljazeera.com
That is the result, not the cause, of the history you do not know. The history is not an excuse but it is the reason for the events, showing how the events need never have happened.
You lack of knowledge leads you into mistakes, such as being critical of Danidl's post and saying the Crimea is Ukraine. It was never Ukraine and wasn't occupied by Ukrainians, it was traditionally the home of the Russian Tartars, an Islamic people. It ended up very empty when the Tartars left and was mainly a Russian base then. As Danidl posted it should have been ceded to Russia, but as ever when countries are artificially created as the Ukraine has been, such mistakes are made.
Countries are only stable when they grow naturally over time. That's why we saw the mess in the Middle East, the Balkans, East Germany and Northern Ireland and others, all due to countries being created artificially and too quickly.
That is also Ukraines problem, created as a country only just over a century ago and gradually added to since with areas from other countries following each world war and the years following, including from Russia and Poland. Hence their long standing internal strife.
We can only learn from history if we know it. Not knowing it or saying it isn't relevant is why the same mistakes keep getting made.
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The Beloved leader has issued a parable for Brexiteers
"“It is easier for a Russian Oligarch to enter The House of Lords, than for a Ukrainian refugee to enter into the Kingdom of England.”
(Johnson. 20:22)
"“It is easier for a Russian Oligarch to enter The House of Lords, than for a Ukrainian refugee to enter into the Kingdom of England.”
(Johnson. 20:22)
Was surprised to see this:
Switzerland, a favourite destination for Russian oligarchs, has set aside its tradition of neutrality and announced that it will adopt all the sanctions already imposed by the European Union on Russia.
Following a government meeting on Monday, Switzerland’s president Ignazio Cassis said that the country would immediately freeze the assets of Russia’s president Vladimir Putin, prime minister Mikhail Mishustin and foreign minister Sergei Lavrov, as well as all 367 individuals sanctioned last week by the EU.
Cassis told reporters today:
In so doing, Switzerland is responding to the serious violations of international law for which these individuals are responsible
Switzerland, a favourite destination for Russian oligarchs, has set aside its tradition of neutrality and announced that it will adopt all the sanctions already imposed by the European Union on Russia.
Following a government meeting on Monday, Switzerland’s president Ignazio Cassis said that the country would immediately freeze the assets of Russia’s president Vladimir Putin, prime minister Mikhail Mishustin and foreign minister Sergei Lavrov, as well as all 367 individuals sanctioned last week by the EU.
Cassis told reporters today:
In a statement, the Swiss government said it will implement the sanctions in coordination with the EU, adding that these were “primarily goods and financial sanctions”.
In so doing, Switzerland is responding to the serious violations of international law for which these individuals are responsible
Indeed that is surprising. However there may be an element of currying favour since the Swiss have some serious problems with their EU relationship and want more favourable treatment.
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There are quite a few precedents.
From Nazis to refineries: How Switzerland has handled the world’s gold
A new book exposes the dark history of gold laundering in Switzerland and the modern challenge of cleaning up a lucrative industry.
www.swissinfo.ch
There has been an incredible change in attitudes towards Putin. (It's not Russia)
Ukraine has been a watershed moment.
My worry is and has been that this seismic change pushes him further into a corner he can not escape from. Could easily reach point where if Russia (or he himself) is on edge of oblivion... Might as well take who knows what with him. He easily has enough at his disposal to take everything and everybody with him.
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May be not completely gone yet, but Putin seems to have started his military enterprise without anticipating that so many countries will be sending money and weapons to support the Ukrainians.
Finland has just said they will too.
I wonder if the USA would start sending in their drones.
why argue about Donbass..?. I know little about it, so I am unwilling to comment. But the huge point is that partition is rarely a solution, and Crimea is a self limiting peninsula, whereas the Donbass is potentially open ended
Flecc, its irrelevant when a country was formed. What happened 30 years or 100 years ago has nothing to do with it. Ukraine is an Independant sovereign country with a legitimate democracy. Part of that country was the Crimean Peninsula. (upto 2014,after which its rather disputed, but UN still see Crimea as Ukrainian territory)
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Agreed, I almost said as much. Putin thinks differently.
Apparently Turkey have been supplying drones, aledgedly built in Turkey but I, d bet American sourced.
The region has become another test bed for high tech armaments. Preferably capable of operation on minimum training. (look at the stuff we, ve sent, 5th gen single use fire and forget anti tank weapons, missile itself generates 3d infra red image. Doesn't need laser washing, simply remembers shape, size of target and looks for it) We, ve sent over half our UK stocks.
If Ukraine has half the stuff folk have supposed to have sent and can use it, think balance of power is firmly on defenders side.
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Ukraine can't match the fire power of Putin's army, regardless of the amount of weapons they may be supplied with. They can only negotiate a voluntary Russian withdrawal or suffer the destruction of the kind of Beirut.
Agreed in broad terms, it depends how desperate and what Putin will target. They have taken thermo baric weapons but as yet haven't used them.
With regards tanks and capability to remove them from battlefield I, d guess Ukrainians have ability to destroy the lot. The situation so far has not reflected the massive difference in capabilities.
As yet Russians are either showing massive restraint or they are nowhere near as effective as we all assumed? Saw a video this morning of a farmer stealing a Russian tank with a massive tractor. Was quite strange to hear the Russian soldiers laughing about it.?? I, ll try and find/post it.
The Ukraine situation gets to feel ever so close:
Russian vessels will be banned from British ports, transport secretary Grant Shapps said on Monday, in an effort to ensure the Kremlin isn’t funding its war effort in Ukraine with sales of oil and gas in the UK.
The pledge came as multiple Russian oil tankers were either docked at UK ports or on either way to drop off consignments, in south Wales, Scotland and Orkney.
A Russian oil tanker was moored at Milford Haven in south Wales on Monday, even as Shapps announced plans to bar any future arrivals.
Pluto, a crude oil tanker delivering supplies from Primorsk – which accounts for 30% of Russian oil exports – arrived in the UK on 26 February, where it remained on Monday morning.
www.theguardian.com
Russian vessels will be banned from British ports, transport secretary Grant Shapps said on Monday, in an effort to ensure the Kremlin isn’t funding its war effort in Ukraine with sales of oil and gas in the UK.
The pledge came as multiple Russian oil tankers were either docked at UK ports or on either way to drop off consignments, in south Wales, Scotland and Orkney.
A Russian oil tanker was moored at Milford Haven in south Wales on Monday, even as Shapps announced plans to bar any future arrivals.
Pluto, a crude oil tanker delivering supplies from Primorsk – which accounts for 30% of Russian oil exports – arrived in the UK on 26 February, where it remained on Monday morning.
Russian vessels to be banned from British ports, says Grant Shapps
Transport secretary’s pledge comes with multiple oil tankers either docked or on their way to UK ports
www.theguardian.com