Brexit, for once some facts.

[flecc]

While I do not agree with Flecc's comments about roll over and accept the inevitable and resistance means it's all the Ukrainians fault. Make them a cup of tea instead. (I think we would all probably be speaking German now if Churchill had taken that approach in 1938).

A correction John, I haven't said its all the Ukrainians fault, clearly they didn't start this. There's times though when the wisest thing is to accept the reality rather than committing suicide, winning in the long term is more important than needlessly dying soon.

As for ending up speaking German, looking at Germany since WW2 that would not have been in any way a bad thing as the very large numbers of British ex pats who have moved there show only too well. Many have taken up German nationality in disgust at Brexit.
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[Zlatan]

A correction John, I haven't said its all the Ukrainians fault, clearly they didn't start this. There's times though when the wisest thing is to accept the reality rather than committing suicide, winning in the long term is more important than needlessly dying soon.

As for ending up speaking German, looking at Germany since WW2 that would not have been in any way a bad thing as the very large numbers of British ex pats who have moved there show only too well. Many have taken up German nationality in disgust at Brexit.
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Germany only became attractive because the Nazis were defeated.
Believe it or not Flecc German governance is rather different to that in 1939.

 

[flecc]

he seems to have gained a large track of land on the South and East of Ukraine.
Heading for partition of Ukraine?

Exactly what I've been preaching for weeks as the real objective.

This hand modified map shows my forecast.

And in this post I showed what you comment on.

A limited partition was always the aim for nearly 20 years, to maximise the border access from Russia to the Crimea and the southern fleet.
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[Woosh]

There's times though when the wisest thing is to accept the reality rather than committing suicide, winning in the long term is more important than needlessly dying soon.

it may turn out that the Ukrainians are winning in the long term, even if their country were to be partitioned for a little while when Putin is still in charge.
Already, there is no more border between Ukraine and the EU.

 

[Zlatan]

Exactly what I've been preaching for weeks as the real objective.

This hand modified map shows my forecast.

And in this post I showed what you comment on.

A limited partition was always the aim for nearly 20 years, to maximise the border access from Russia to the Crimea and the southern fleet.
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You didn't answer my question.
If that corridor were through Italy would you react the same?

 

[flecc]

You didn't answer my question.
If that corridor were through Italy would you react the same?

Being silly again, what has Italy to do with this? My post you quote has no reaction from me, it's just comment so I haven't a clue what you are posting about.
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[Zlatan]

Being silly again, what has Italy to do with this? My post you quote has no reaction from me, it's just comment so I haven't a clue what you are posting about.
.

It's got everything to do with it. Ukraine, Italy, Poland and every Independant democracy in world. Nobody has right to march into any other country demanding regime changes or corridors through their country. Ukraine is no different to Italy, UK, Germany or anywhere.
And on silly stakes you win hands down recently. Think you, ve had an upset or something.

 

[oyster]

I do agree with Flecc's point of view that Russia's primary objective now is to create a corridor to Crimea.

I reflect that some of my earliest memories were of travelling along the corridors (autobahn and rail) through Russian-occupied East Germany.

Of course, the Berlin airlift had shown how sensitive a transport corridor can be to the whims of those in charge of the country through which they pass. I doubt the Russians have forgotten, and I expect they would be unwilling to accept such a tightly defined corridor.

 

[oyster]

Maybe, Mr Hancock, though I am not convinced:

I didn’t break Covid rules when kissing aide, says Matt Hancock
Ex-minister explains why he resigned last year after CCTV showed him embracing adviser Gina Coladangelo

But is canoodling acceptable behaviour in the office under normal Civil Service rules?

 

[Zlatan]

I reflect that some of my earliest memories were of travelling along the corridors (autobahn and rail) through Russian-occupied East Germany.

Of course, the Berlin airlift had shown how sensitive a transport corridor can be to the whims of those in charge of the country through which they pass. I doubt the Russians have forgotten, and I expect they would be unwilling to accept such a tightly defined corridor.

I don't think Putin wants a rail link. Think he wants rather more.
He wants to dictate to Finland and Sweden about not joining nato. He wants to overthrow, as he sees it a none democratic Nazi system in Ukraine, which is actually a democratically elected legitimate government and in achieving these aims he's willing to kill thousands and threaten nuclear war.
Yes, he might fear the encroachment of NATO on surrounding borders but he knows full well NATO is a defensive organisation. Putin is the aggressor and his actions have fostered the very events he wished to stop. (Finland /Sweden in NATO? Ukraine in EU?)

 

[oyster]

I don't think Putin wants a rail link. Think he wants rather more.

The Berlin corridors included three autobahn, three air, as well as two rail and two water corridors.

 

[Zlatan]

The Berlin corridors included three autobahn, three air, as well as two rail and two water corridors.

Perhaps a rail link and autobahn for Putin's sole use should be offered in today's negotiations. Can't see it helping. If it could save lives its a good idea.

 

[oyster]

Perhaps a rail link and autobahn for Putin's sole use should be offered in today's negotiations. Can't see it helping. If it could save lives its a good idea.

If Russia is going to retain Crimea, the best answer might have been a tunnel to Russia - not through Ukraine. A bridge is too susceptible to being blown up.

I have been wondering if anyone in Ukraine sees blowing the bridge as useful thing to do?

 

[oldgroaner]

Diplomacy?
We've had enough of diplomacy!

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498271655071735810

 

[flecc]

It's got everything to do with it. Ukraine, Italy, Poland and every Independant democracy in world. Nobody has right to march into any other country demanding regime changes or corridors through their country. Ukraine is no different to Italy, UK, Germany or anywhere.
And on silly stakes you win hands down recently. Think you, ve had an upset or something.

No, all that is irrelevant to the subject of Putin securing his southern fleet. Why is it that you can never keep to a subject?

And no, I am not being silly. I just happen to be almost the only person in this thread commenting impartially. That prompts many of you to think I am supporting Putin. I am not. I strongly dislike both Putin and his methods but I comment fairly on his tactics and strategy. He's often clever and frequently runs rings around the West, but at other times he is unbelievably stupid. But both those things apply to the USA and they have been nothing but a menace to to the free world since the fall of the USSR.

Russia was on offer to the West as a democratic ally and friend at the 1990s but the USA blocked that, both directly and by covert CIA action.

At the beginning of his reign Putin approached the EU early in this century with a view to Russia becoming a member, but he was snubbed, no doubt due to the US influence one again.

In 2004 a stable and privileged Ukraine was deliberately destabilised by covert US CIA action, leading to the Orange revolution in which a minority of 25% of Ukrainians seized power in a coup, so much for US democracy. That directly lead to the breakaway of the Russian population oblasts into a civil war that has raged ever since, giving Putin his excuse to support them.

I could go on with streams of this, but the point is made, who is really the villain?

But for the USA Putin would never have been known of and certainly would not have been in any power in Russia. But for the USA Russia would have been a free democratic ally of the West and possibly even an EU member.

Instead they've become more extreme an enemy and been driven into the arms of China, our future greatest threat. What an idiotic achievement by the USA.
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[flecc]

Of course, the Berlin airlift had shown how sensitive a transport corridor can be to the whims of those in charge of the country through which they pass. I doubt the Russians have forgotten, and I expect they would be unwilling to accept such a tightly defined corridor.

What they are creating though is not a tightly defined corridor. It's a substantial land area as part of Russia with the Crimea the end of that.
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[flecc]

Perhaps a rail link and autobahn for Putin's sole use should be offered in today's negotiations. Can't see it helping. If it could save lives its a good idea.

He already has that, as I showed in a photo at the foot of this post
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[Woosh]

Instead they've become more extreme an enemy and been driven into the arms of China, our future greatest threat.

I can't imagine what China would threaten us with.
Stop Uyghur women making cheap clothing for us?
we do usually the threatening.

 

[Zlatan]

No, all that is irrelevant to the subject of Putin securing his southern fleet. Why is it that you can never keep to a subject?

And no, I am not being silly. I just happen to be almost the only person in this thread commenting impartially. That prompts many of you to think I am supporting Putin. I am not. I strongly dislike both Putin and his methods but I comment fairly on his tactics and strategy. He's often clever and frequently runs rings around the West, but at other times he is unbelievably stupid. But both those things apply to the USA and they have been nothing but a menace to to the free world since the fall of the USSR.

Russia was on offer to the West as a democratic ally and friend at the 1990s but the USA blocked that, both directly and by covert CIA action.

At the beginning of his reign Putin approached the EU early in this century with a view to Russia becoming a member, but he was snubbed, no doubt due to the US influence one again.

In 2004 a stable and privileged Ukraine was deliberately destabilised by covert US CIA action, leading to the Orange revolution in which a minority of 25% of Ukrainians seized power in a coup, so much for US democracy. That directly lead to the breakaway of the Russian population oblasts into a civil war that has raged ever since, giving Putin his excuse to support them.

I could go on with streams of this, but the point is made, who is really the villain?

But for the USA Putin would never have been known of and certainly would not have been in any power in Russia. But for the USA Russia would have been a free democratic ally of the West and possibly even an EU member.

Instead they've become more extreme an enemy and been driven into the arms of China, our future greatest threat. What an idiotic achievement by the USA.
.

All probably true but probably not. (I've included a wiki to explain real reasons Russia can't be in EU or NATO)

Russia–European Union relations - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

But all certainly utterly irrelevant to situation we now find ourselves in. That is a belligerent dictator with a pack of lies for justification chooses to force his own Citizens with fear and lies, to invade an adjacent peaceful, democrat country and in so doing kills thousands, yet when the rest of decent humanity protest he threatens them with nuclear war. You claim he is justified in wanting a corridor to a land he previously invaded. That is insane flecc. Putin has no right to be in either Crimea or Ukraine. He had no right to send agents with novichok to uk, he had no right to poison people who speak against him. He has no right to invade anybody. Neither he or the party he in theory represents were elected. He bullied his way to power and voted himself as leader beyond 2024. Hardly EU worthy is it Flecc, unless your idea of EU has deteriorated somewhat.
And by the way Flecc, if VDL etc etc does decide to allow Ukraine into EU under emergency rules (agreed doubtful) by default EU is at war immediately with Russia.

Putin and Putin alone has caused this ridiculous affair, and as I said lots of posts ago, a comment you ridiculed, he really has gone too far this time. It's going to last years or cause ww3. Unless he backs down, which I doubt somehow.
In last 4 days or so roughly 6000 people have died. How many more before Russia comes to its senses.

 

[flecc]

I can't imagine what China would threaten us with.
Stop Uyghur women making cheap clothing for us?
we do usually the threatening.

As I posted, future.

In a long major address to the National Peoples Congress Presient Xi Jinping of China spelled out China's future aims.

In essence that they would convert the whole world into Chinese style single party democratic communism.

That did not mean by warfare but by the same hearts and minds policy that they were already practicing in many parts of the world through infrastructure development and aid.

They've made huge strides in that with widespread investments in such as Africa, Turkey and even here in the UK, plus the extraordinary recreation of the Silk Route, China's ancient trading route. That now already connects China with Eastern Europe and Moscow and is intended to connect Western Europe as well. The countries it passes tbrough have also benefitted from many investment projects greatly improving their lives.
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