Brexit, for once some facts.

[oyster]

Trust Truss on Russia:


max seddon
@maxseddon
·
5h

Looks like Liz Truss’ Moscow trip has not gone down well with Lavrov, who said UK diplomats came “unprepared” to their meeting and said it was “like a mute talking to a deaf person”


max seddon
@maxseddon
·
2h

The public dressing-down Lavrov gave Liz Truss was so brutal, and the gap between them so yawning, you almost have to wonder why they even had the meeting – and Lavrov did indeed wonder that aloud during an excruciating press conference in Moscow

ft.com
Russian and British foreign ministers exchange barbs after frosty Moscow meeting
Sergei Lavrov describes meeting with Liz Truss as ‘dialogue of a mute person with a deaf person’


max seddon
@maxseddon

Things behind the scenes were even worse, according to
@ElenaChernenko
. Lavrov said, "Do you recognize Russia's sovereignty over Rostov and Voronezh oblasts?" Truss said the UK would "never" do so – before the ambassador told her they're not in Ukraine https://kommersant.ru/doc/5207486?tg

1:50 pm · 10 Feb 2022·Twitter Web App

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1491771623497777159

 

[flecc]

Trust Truss on Russia:


max seddon
@maxseddon
·
5h

Looks like Liz Truss’ Moscow trip has not gone down well with Lavrov, who said UK diplomats came “unprepared” to their meeting and said it was “like a mute talking to a deaf person”


max seddon
@maxseddon
·
2h

The public dressing-down Lavrov gave Liz Truss was so brutal, and the gap between them so yawning, you almost have to wonder why they even had the meeting – and Lavrov did indeed wonder that aloud during an excruciating press conference in Moscow

ft.com
Russian and British foreign ministers exchange barbs after frosty Moscow meeting
Sergei Lavrov describes meeting with Liz Truss as ‘dialogue of a mute person with a deaf person’


max seddon
@maxseddon

Things behind the scenes were even worse, according to
@ElenaChernenko
. Lavrov said, "Do you recognize Russia's sovereignty over Rostov and Voronezh oblasts?" Truss said the UK would "never" do so – before the ambassador told her they're not in Ukraine https://kommersant.ru/doc/5207486?tg

1:50 pm · 10 Feb 2022·Twitter Web App

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1491771623497777159

This sort of diplomatic incompetence is the the British norm in modern times. It faithfully echoes when David Davis was our Brexit negotiator up against the highly skilled Michel Barnier for the EU, Barnier complaining that Davis came to the talks without any preparation and carrying no papers.
.

 

[Woosh]

Looks like Liz Truss’ Moscow trip has not gone down well with Lavrov.

Lavrov said, "Do you recognize Russia's sovereignty over Rostov and Voronezh oblasts?" Truss said the UK would "never" do so – before the ambassador told her they're not in Ukraine.

Lavrov has a point.
That's basic geography and Truss came unprepared.

 

[oyster]

that's basic geography.

It's hook, line and sinker.

 

[oyster]

Lavrov has a point.
That's basic geography and Truss came unprepared.

She just said (on radio 4) that she wants to see the words about not intending to invade Ukraine backed up by action.

Suggesting the Russians should take action has lots of (possibly/probably) disastrous interpretations.

I suggest she wants inaction.

 

[flecc]

Lavrov has a point.
That's basic geography and Truss came unprepared.

The worrying thing is that Lavrov was so certain she would be unprepared that he was able to launch his trap with such confidence that she'd fall into it.

In fact I've little doubt that Truss was thinking of the Donetz and Luhansk Oblasts of Ukraine's civil war region in their east and hastily jumped to the conclusion that they were what Lavrov meant.

The moral? Always pause and think before speaking each phrase, it's why the utterances of great orators like Churchill are littered with silences.
.

 

[oyster]

The worrying thing is that Lavrov was so certain she would be unprepared that he was able to launch his trap with such confidence that she'd fall into it.

In fact I've little doubt that Truss was thinking of the Donetz and Luhansk Oblasts of Ukraine's civil war region in their east and hastily jumped to the conclusion that they were what Lavrov meant.

The moral? Always pause and think before speaking each phrase, it's why the utterances of great orators like Churchill are littered with silences.
.

It is also why many politicians always speak in their own language, even when they are perfectly capable of speaking the other person's language. Keep to the safety of the language you know extremely well. Obviously, it's acceptable to use a few words in deference, or in a specifically prepared speech. But not using A-level <language> thinking you are brilliant.

 

[Danidl]

This sort of diplomatic incompetence is the the British norm in modern times. It faithfully echoes when David Davis was our Brexit negotiator up against the highly skilled Michel Barnier for the EU, Barnier complaining that Davis came to the talks without any preparation and carrying no papers.
.

It is the arrogance behind it which is damning

 

[oyster]

Cressida Dick is leaving.

 

[Woosh]

It is the arrogance behind it which is damning

apparently, NATO promised Ukraine and Georgia full membership since 2008.
In 2019, Ukraine made joining NATO its strategic goal.

You can see why Putin has to do something.

 

[wheeler]

It is the arrogance behind it which is damning

Arrogance, don't you know we are British? You'll be getting another gunboat up the Liffey at this rate.

 

[flecc]

apparently, NATO promised Ukraine and Georgia full membership since 2008.
In 2019, Ukraine made joining NATO its strategic goal.

You can see why Putin has to do something.

I don't know why he is hesitating, he didn't when with a violent message he taught Georgia not to consider NATO membership. Of course he should have made his move when the USA was still involved in Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria, an unusual tactical mistake for him.

It's still a good time for him to act though, now that Xi Jingpin has spoken so openly in support of Russia. Putin only needs to join the Donbass civil war region to the Crimea, putting the Azov Sea completely under Russian control. Then it wouldn't matter what Ukraine does so he could leave it free, minus the predominantly Russian eastern part that it never controlled or populated anyway.
.

 

[Woosh]

I don't know why he is hesitating, he didn't when with a violent message he taught Georgia not to consider NATO membership.

I think he knows how damaging an economic war with the West will be for Russia. Their economy is relatively small, if the USA imposes economic sanctions, Russia will have to rely nearly 100% on China for their external trade.

 

[flecc]

I think he knows how damaging an economic war with the West will be for Russia. Their economy is relatively small, if the USA imposes economic sanctions, Russia will have to rely nearly 100% on China for their external trade.

Yes, I agree. But Western resolve doesn't last well as all the present sanction busting shows. Germany and some others in Europe are in favour of making peace with Russia, it's only the USA and some ex Warswaw pact countries like Poland who are against that and they will always be enemies anyway. Religion raising its head again, Catholic Poland and Orthodox Russia both staunchly religious have never paired well.
.

 

[Danidl]

Arrogance, don't you know we are British? You'll be getting another gunboat up the Liffey at this rate.

No you won't .. you have yet to see our fishermen ..they saw off the Russian fleet!.

 

[Mrs Honeyman]

Cressida Dick is leaving.

Was she ever there?

 

[Mrs Honeyman]

This sort of diplomatic incompetence is the the British norm in modern times. It faithfully echoes when David Davis was our Brexit negotiator up against the highly skilled Michel Barnier for the EU, Barnier complaining that Davis came to the talks without any preparation and carrying no papers.
.

It always strikes me that Liz Truss is pre-occupied with her personal vanity. She seems to be constantly playing at dressing up. The motorbike pictures, then her dressed as a soldier having a ride in a tank and most recently looking wistful whilst dressed up as a Cossack. I nearly forget the private jet. I can’t think of anything that she’s actually achieved which is related to her job. Face like a chewed caramel too.

 

[Mrs Honeyman]

Well here’s a Brexit bonus. Managed to snag myself a few boxes of this stuff ready for next Christmas. The grandchildren will love playing in it. It’s fireproof too, so added safety. Can’t be too careful with the little ones.

Before Brexit, all of that evil “Brussels red tape“ would have spoiled our fun.

 

[Woosh]

Yes, I agree. But Western resolve doesn't last well as all the present sanction busting shows. Germany and some others in Europe are in favour of making peace with Russia, it's only the USA and some ex Warswaw pact countries like Poland who are against that and they will always be enemies anyway. Religion raising its head again, Catholic Poland and Orthodox Russia both staunchly religious have never paired well.
.

I think the reason why the EU is softer with Russian's point of view is because we, via the OSCE, co-signed the Minsk Protocols in 2014 then in 2015.
Since then, NATO continues to build up its presence in the Black Sea, around Crimea, Ukraine and Moldova. Ukraine started to implement the Minsk Agreements then backtracked. USA and UK started shipping weapons to Ukraine which subsequently were deployed in the conflict.
What Russia wants is first of all, for Ukraine to implement fully the Minsk Agreements then for NATO to pull back its military presence in the Black Sea.
The stock market has clearly discounted any war in Ukraine.

 

[oyster]

Well done! I can agree with Guto Harri.


Jonathan Lis

@jonlis1

For all those who missed the last hour of hilarity, Johnson’s new comms chief just retweeted someone endorsing John Major’s diatribe against his boss, eventually unretweeted it, then changed his bio to tell people to dismiss any further tweets as not being sent by him

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1491925411869212691