Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
- Start date
I wrote to mean that the characters assume it will happen. Quite possibly based on sound experience.
It certainly was the case in a number of towns as well as cities - not sure how many but I certainly remember second deliveries (in a small city, no more than a reasonable sized town).
I agree that first/second was a cop-out and often in practice makes no difference.
When they introduced it, I could see a rationale for a fast delivery service, but at a significantly higher price. As it happened, too much mail was first-class and ended up not getting super-speed treatment - just second-class held back. Which seemed entirely wrong.
Agreed on second deliveries. I took your multiple to mean more and frequent, which did used to happen in busy city commercial areas when post would arrive several times a day into commercial post rooms.
Online documents, paperless billing, email and texting has killed the post as we used to know it.
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Well - I was thinking about things like fifth deliveries in very busy areas but was including all multiple deliveries.
Yes - online (of all sorts) has had a profound impact but so much had deteriorated well before the first email was sent.
Quasi say the Government navigated Covid well
Knew there'd be (at least) one smart arse...
I said from start that was wrong but understandable. And you confuse the issues. France can not feel any annoyance towards USA, or shouldn't, they are supplier. Its like you grumbling at another bike supplier for supplying a bike that actually suits customer rather better than yours. The fault lies with the customer, not the supplier. And even more the case when you actually examine French (entire Europe actually) are totally reliant on US for their defence. US defence budget, even just the portion allocated to NATO simply dwarfs the entire contribution from European countries, even including what those countries allocate to their own Independant defence.
EU needs to wake up, why the hell should US defend Europe from Russia, China or whoever. You can't moan on the one hand about US and then accept their cash to keep NATO operational.
We either need defending or we don't. Either send Yanks home and start a European Army. (an EU one? ) or just stop spending on defence.
Seems France, Germany and most, Europeans want best of both worlds. They want to be seen as pacifist. (EU no army at all) but want all the benefits going with been protected by arguably strongest nation on earth.
your comparison is wrong. There was a contract between France and Australia which has already been partly executed and was signed by Australia's previous PM Malcolm Turnbull. The new Australian PM Scott Morrison wanted to break this contract for some time, since June. It's like your firm ordered 12 bikes from me for a good discount, got 3 delivered and cancel the rest while insisting you've done nothing wrong and we're still friends. The galling thing is you let me know the day before you announce you now have a new supplier who is also my best friend.
The behaviour of Johnson and Biden is tactless. France has now asked the EU to delay any trade deal with Australia.
Yep, but we aren't talking about bikes, we are talking about a Nations security... So, as I, ve said all along... Wrong but understandable.
Imagine Australians turning to France in its hour of need??? What can French do... Bring it up at EU? It's not just the physical submarines, it's a political aligning with a country capable of helping both with the subs and patrolling /presence etc in Pacific.
If you are being bullied at school who do you make friends with, the wimpy kid who just wants your sweets or the class tough guy who just happens to live next door.
And how can France be seen as a credible supplier and good ally when for its defence it relies on the competing supplier's charity anyway. .
Let's face it NATO is 10 times the burden on US than any European country..
Australia could and probably does think France should get its own house in order. Paying (well begging) for the American mercenaries to defend Europe hardly smacks of a World power does it.
And that applies to rest of us in Europe. (well apart from the obvious one)
And, the blame lies absolutely right with EU. All the idealistic clap trap for last 40 years and in mean time not a single policy passed on defending World peace just lots of words. The world, especially China, has passed EU by. EU is impotent and made itself unimportant... Aukus has just proved it, as as its lack of any real influence anywhere, apart from in Brussels and even that needs all 27 voices to just happen to be singing from same sheet. Which is rare.
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I don't think they do want the USA protect them, they've not asked for that and Germany has long been in favour or reaching an accord with Russia and co-existing.
It's the pushy USA who want to defend Europe against the Russians due to their phobic hatred of communism. But they then want Europe to pay an equal cost for something Europe hasn't asked for and is far from fully in favour of.
Why should they pay? European countries have many strong left wing and communist parties, many millions who would like to shift a long way to the left and a far greater number who do not fear Russian communism. That's been especially true since the Russian Communist party in 2015 declared a change to the sort of democratic communism that China practices, Russia effectively being in an alliance with China now.
That is the USA's fear, a harmonious European-Russian relationship, meaning aligned thinking from the eastern side of the North Atlantic to the western side of the Pacific, leaving North America isolated in the northern hemisphere.
The USA promoted NATO and their defence of Europe is really nothing but a ploy, maintaining a cold war. It's to prevent such an accord leaving Europe in a peaceful state of friendship with countries ruled by the new style of communism.
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Argument going around in circles ... No surprise there. If Wooshes bikes or other bikes were what you needed to ensure you get your heart medicine from the pharmacy , then the analogy is closer. Carrying the analogy further, the other vendor is offering 800whr battery's , whereas you had previously ordered 400 whr units from Woosh , the analogy is closer yet. But the kicker is that Woosh actually now has 1000whr batteries and you decide not to let him counter . The French Barracuda class sub was designed for a nuclear reactor , and such models are in service with the French Navy . The diesel electric is a variant. The French model uses Exocets .. which have a proven record in damaging ships..as my brother can testify. Whether the Aussies go for US or French Reactors the strategic problem remains ... They need external support to keep this fleet going.
which country do you think can boss Australia around?
The USA of course.
The fight for supremacy between the top two countries in the world, China and USA, is going to come sooner or later. USA is going to lose this time. Germany is nudging itself toward Russia and China. It's just a matter time, 20-30 years maybe, before Germany decides to strengthen her army. Would it stay in NATO? I wouldn't bet on it.
Yep, suspect NATO is fatally wounded..
Danidl
That takes nothing into account about the Geography, Politics, Alegiencies, and wether French would actually help in the region. How many Nuclear Subs does France own let alone patrol in Pacific with.
How many times do I have to repeat, the way its been handled is wrong but understandable. And yet again Danidl seems to know more about specification of US subs versus French subs than Australians do.
They have made the choice for a reason and its not without cost. (half a billion dollars thrown away)
Nobody on here has a clue what either the French subs or the US ones are and aren't capable of. Or I suppose they chose US ones because they don't like Macron or Boris persuaded them.
Or I suppose Danidl has a direct line to US classified military info.. I can feel disdain coming on. Sorry Jonathon.
I think Danidl you are doing yourself a disservice. Your assumed knowledge of the submarines in question throws into doubt any actual knowledge you might (or might not) have. We all know nothing about US Nuclear Subs on a technical /choice level,well we could perhaps draw one in red crayon, like my 5 year old grandson could.
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More likely it will take the EU with it, with the NATO concept long gone.
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And where does that leave the EU, don't think Putin will be sending delegates to Brussels in our life time. (actually my grandkids life time) (post crossed with flecc)
The EU could continue and in line with its aims bring more control of member countries, since the centralisation implicit in that suits any form of left wing governance, especially democratic communism.
The centres of power of the three giants would then be Beijing, Moscow and Brussels. Where the fourth giant of India would stand in all this is questionable. It's difficult to see how they could maintain independence.
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If EU had a mature military presence I could agree with that. As it is it is utterly powerless. Even its own prominent members are unwilling to hand over any aspect of their individual military control to Brussels. They should have been sorting this since the fiasco in 07...
EU is between a rock and a hard place. France, Germany, Spain, Italy all have credible military capability. They won't hand over any control of those to what is seen as minor states or Central control from Brussels.
Its becoming a matter of urgency.. Would Aukus had happened had it been an EU contract, with the entire EU backing it. Trouble is other states don't know what they are working with. EU is currently mid stream. It either must become a Superstate with common tax, military, health and social care or return to a simple free trading block.
To be honest flecc it is looking a little pointless at the moment. And it is no longer in its infancy.
Is it a trading block or a political entity with some credence and power. Its between the two at the moment. Neither one or the other.
I do think this Aukus will prove to be a watershed moment. The World has woken up to many realities. Countries clinging onto old colonial histories have been put in their place. France and UK especially. Can Europe evolve and take its place as a true world power and influence. Not at moment.
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those countries are current members of NATO. What makes you think that they would handle control to NATO more than they would to the EU?
It's intentionally both at present, with the intention of becoming entirely political, something I know you've never accepted.
I'm forecasting that if Germany shifts toward Russia and China, it will bring the EU with it politically as the head of Europe, with Germany dominant.
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