Brexit, for once some facts.

Danidl

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....THis from the Irish Times Fintin O'Toole of today

"Blessed are the makers of processed pork products, for they shall come to symbolise British pluck in the face of the foreign foe. The invention of the “sausage war” as a cover for the flagrant breach of an international treaty is absurd. But we have to remember that we are trapped in a nightmare where the more absurd the imagery is, the more seriously we have to take it.
To understand what is going on with the Northern Ireland protocol we have to ask: why sausages? Why did Boris Johnson confront Emmanuel Macron at the G7 summit over the weekend: “How would you like it if the French courts stopped you moving Toulouse sausages to Paris?”
The question, as it happens, makes no sense. The Saucisse de Toulouse is made all over France, so even in the unlikely event of a blockade, Parisians would have no trouble finding some for their cassoulets.
And as an emblem of the allegedly terrible deprivations inflicted on the plain people of Ulster by the protocol, the sausage seems, on the face of it, even less apt.
If we go back to February 2020, we will find a very different official story: that the protocol would be great for the Ulster sausage.
Why? Because Northern Ireland has lots of fine sausage-makers, including Karro Food in Cookstown, Cranswick in Ballymena and the wonderful Finnebrogue Artisan in Downpatrick.
Not only is the protocol not causing a sausage famine in the six counties, it is a great boon for these pork peddlers. Says who? Well how about the Department of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs, whose Minister is one Edwin Poots.
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In February 2020, Poots’s department exultantly pointed to the great advantage that Northern Ireland sausage-makers would enjoy because of the protocol: unfettered exports to both Britain and the EU. There is in fact a huge opportunity for them. The UK was selling £17 million (€19.8m) of sausages a year to the EU, with almost half of that going to the Republic. Now, only Northern Ireland sausages can be sold to the EU. The protocol really puts the sizzle into this export trade.

So if you were going to pick out an object to epitomise the evils of the protocol, the last one should be the sausage. But the decision to bang on about bangers has nothing to do with ordinary logic – and that is precisely what makes this whole charade at once so ludicrous and so dangerous.
The incoming DUP leader Edwin Poots was answering questions in the Assembly on Tuesday in his capacity as the North’s Minister for Agriculture. Photograph: PA
In February 2020, Edwin Poots’s department exultantly pointed to the great advantage that Northern Ireland sausage-makers would enjoy because of the protocol: unfettered exports to both Britain and the EU. File photograph: PA
The “sausage war” tells us, firstly, that Northern Ireland matters, well, not a sausage. You can only pick on good news for Northern Ireland and turn it into an intolerable outrage if what is actually happening there is entirely irrelevant to you.
But if this is not about the decimation of the Ulster fry, what is it about? The bleak answer lies in the return to a habit deeply ingrained in English nationalism: the use of basic foodstuffs as weapons in proxy wars against nasty Europeans.
Before God Save the King was widely adopted, the unofficial national anthem of England was The Roast Beef of Old England: “Then, Britons from all nice Dainties refrain / Which effeminate Italy, France and Spain; /And mighty roast beef shall command on the Main.”
In 1996, when the European soccer championship was being played in England, a Tory minister Gillian Shephard objected to the use of Beethoven’s Ode to Joy as the tournament anthem on the grounds that it is German. Britain was then engaged in a “beef war” with Germany because the nasty Krauts were refusing to eat British beef for fear of mad cow disease.

Readers of a certain age may remember the Tory agriculture minister John Gummer force-feeding his own four-year-old daughter Cordelia a beef burger in front of TV camera crews and newspaper reporters, as an act of patriotic heroism. All that was lacking from the photo op was a cow with a red-white-and-blue rosette saying “I’m mad, me!”

The tabloid headlines ran throughout the 1990s: “Germans urged to call truce in ‘mad cow war’”; “Kohl’s beef blitzkrieg”, “French set to back down as Germans hot up beef war”; “Beef War: I’ll Bring Britain To Its Knees”; “Battle lines drawn for new beef war”; “Time to retaliate”. Substitute sausage for beef on this menu of red-blooded chauvinism and its’s once more with feeling.
The appetite for this farcical fodder is, among the Tory base, insatiable. Serve any old piece of meat with some jingo sauce and they swallow it whole. The “sausage war” was cooked up in the back kitchen because the smart boys know it will always go down well with the customers.
This reversion to old habits is a way of keeping the political benefits of Brussels-bashing even after Brexit. Phoney belligerence may have served its rational purpose but it is still far too useful politically to be dispensed with.
The rational thing would be for the Brexiteers to declare victory and move on. But reason is a poor substitute for the ancient pleasures of the patriotic food fight.
And of course the sausage wars help to distract from all the porky pies. Who cares if Northern Ireland chokes on them?
 
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flecc

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I am pretty sure the EU will accept to extend the grace period to the end of the year for some brownie points.
It costs them nothing anyway.
Maybe, though I'm sure tempers are getting short now. As Danidl comments:

"This reversion to old habits is a way of keeping the political benefits of Brussels-bashing even after Brexit. Phoney belligerence may have served its rational purpose but it is still far too useful politically to be dispensed with."

With EU patience clearly disappearing by the day and the fact they have the whip hand, I see lots of trouble before long. It could get very nasty.
.
 
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Danidl

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From a meeting in Dublin today ...

"Reports suggesting the EU could impose checks on Irish goods going to continental Europe to solve the impasse over the Northern Ireland Protocol are incorrect, a European Commissioner has said.

Mairead McGuinness said the EU was willing to be flexible with the UK on the issue of checks on goods moving between Britain and the North, but that any extensions to the grace period for such checks must be achieved through “discussion and agreed solution” rather than London taking unilateral action.

Addressing the Senad committee on the withdrawal of the United Kingdom from the EU, Ms McGuinness said the commission had “identified flexibilities and technical solutions” including on issues such as medicines, Vat and tariffs.

However, she said “there comes a point in a relationship when if you are not being fairly treated or not being treated with respect, there is a need to respond”.

Ms McGuinness said she was “very happy” to hear her commission vice president Maroš Šefcovic deny “completely” reports that the EU would impose checks on goods leaving Ireland for the continent, effectively giving the State third country status alongside the UK.

Brexit problem
“There is no interest here at the commission to make the problem an Irish problem, because clearly this is a Brexit problem. It is a decision of the UK which they took in my view without consideration of the wider implications,” she said via video link from Brussls.

Ms McGuinness said “there is no discussion here” in the college of commissioners about checks on goods that would see Ireland “disadvantaged in terms of access to the single market”.

“I would like to stress very clearly that is not on the agenda here.”

Ms McGuinness said the EU wanted a strong relationship with the UK “as a close neighbour and a partner” but reiterated earlier warnings that Brussels would respond “firmly” if the UK took another unilateral decision to defer its commitments under the post-Brexit protocol. She said the EU had been forced to take legal action against the UK in March.


Unilateral declaration
“Imagine if you are in a room with somebody negotiating a deal and you have a conversation and the meeting ends and the second party goes outside and makes a unilateral declaration that they will diverge from the agreement signed up to, and they haven’t even told you or even passed a note to you to say this might happen or give you courtesy of a heads up. I think that is very damaging.”

Ms McGuinness said full implementation of the withdrawal agreement is a “prerequisite” for an EU-UK relationship built on trust.

She said the UK negotiated the protocol to replace the “backstop” agreed by former prime minister Theresa May and the EU agreed to it “in good faith” expecting that the agreement would be fully implemented.

“From our side we continue to engage to find pragmatic solutions,” she said."


As flecc says patience is wearing thin.
 

Woosh

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the EU can climb any high horse it likes, the reality is the EU does not have any means to police what lands in Belfast themselves.
In practice, UK Border Force can continue waving the containers through the port of Belfast.
 

Danidl

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the EU can climb any high horse it likes, the reality is the EU does not have any means to police what lands in Belfast themselves.
In practice, UK Border Force can continue waving the containers through the port of Belfast.
Indeed that is true. But they can suspend all of the provisions of the Trade Agreement, and essentially return the UK to the Crash out scenario which was the status quo ante in that October before the UK setup the NI Protocol.
The problem about unraveling a section of an agreement all closely knitted together, is that it can all turn into a wooly mess.
Remember that the prize the UK is looking for is selling services including Financial into the EU, how do you think the EU will view that when even the trivial amounts of money and material flowing to 1.5M consumers in NI is being cheated on?.
 
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Woosh

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Indeed that is true. But they can suspend all of the provisions of the Trade Agreement, and essentially return the UK to the Crash out scenario which was the status quo ante in that October before the UK setup the NI Protocol.
That would kill peace in Ireland and turn the ROI against the Commission.
The EU won't do that.
 
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Woosh

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Remember that the prize the UK is looking for is selling services including Financial into the EU, how do you think the EU will view that when even the trivial amounts of money and material flowing to 1.5M consumers in NI is being cheated on?.
the EU wants to build up its financial service sector and brexit is a bonus. It won't want to grant UK firms passporting rights any time soon.
 
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flecc

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That would kill peace in Ireland and turn the ROI against the Commission.
The EU won't do that.
But I do see them imposing tariffs on trade between the EU and UK if the UK doesn't toe the line of the N.I. border. That would hurt us far more then the EU.
.
 

Woosh

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But I do see them imposing tariffs on trade between the EU and UK
I think the problem is not trade but specifically chilled meats, chiefly sausages.
The EU does not allow importation of chilled meats into the single market from a third country.
Only an agreement on veterinary standards can solve this.
 

oyster

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Cummings has released some claimed images of a WhatsApp conversation - says this snippet is Johnson describing Hancock:

42921
 

Woosh

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Cummings has released some claimed images of a WhatsApp conversation - says this snippet is Johnson describing Hancock:
I've seen it reported on BBC2 Politics Live today.
With hindsight, BJ should have replaced Hancock by Gove last March when the PPE supplies went so badly.
 
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flecc

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I think the problem is not trade but specifically chilled meats, chiefly sausages.
The EU does not allow importation of chilled meats into the single market from a third country.
Only an agreement on veterinary standards can solve this.
I'm not sure the EU is still in a problem solving mode, given the UK's intransigence and unreliability.

With them unable to trust us I see then moving into punishment mode, hence tariffs.
.
 
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Danidl

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That would kill peace in Ireland and turn the ROI against the Commission.
The EU won't do that.
What will kill peace in Ireland is the current shilly shallying . The DUP are imploding and looking for an enemy to unite against. A resolute Westminster , upholding an international agreement might actually stop that . There was a very serious program aired on RTE yesterday, narration by Portillo , which puts the blame on the British Tory Party and in particular Randolf Churchill and Bonar Law for the CREATION of the UVF and militarised Orangeism, 100 years ago. Actually that Bonar Law, had committed treason against the Crown in the prequel to WW1 , when he threatened to disband the British Army.
 
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Woosh

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The DUP are imploding and looking for an enemy to unite against.
I think you try to read too much into this spat.
It's just too ridiculous to explain why there can't be British sausages on the shop shelves.
 

Danidl

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I think you try to read too much into this spat.
It's just too ridiculous to explain why there can't be British sausages on the shop shelves.
Woosh, perhaps you would indulge me, and accept that I might have a better understanding of things 10 miles up the road. There are plenty of excellent pork farms in NI, and the majority of Ducks consumed in the UK come from the Border, Ireland, North and South is a major producer of Beef, There are major producers of chicken products in Craigavon . So all the facilities for the production of chilled meats exist and are producing
 

oyster

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Woosh, perhaps you would indulge me, and accept that I might have a better understanding of things 10 miles up the road. There are plenty of excellent pork farms in NI, and the majority of Ducks consumed in the UK come from the Border, Ireland, North and South is a major producer of Beef, There are major producers of chicken products in Craigavon . So all the facilities for the production of chilled meats exist and are producing
As I understand, NI can have British sausages, as in sausages produced in The United KIngdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. But not as produced in any other part than NI itself.
 
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Woosh

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Woosh, perhaps you would indulge me, and accept that I might have a better understanding of things 10 miles up the road. There are plenty of excellent pork farms in NI, and the majority of Ducks consumed in the UK come from the Border, Ireland, North and South is a major producer of Beef, There are major producers of chicken products in Craigavon . So all the facilities for the production of chilled meats exist and are producing
UK is supposed to stop imports of P&R (prohibitions and restrictions) products into NI from 1-July:

P&R meat products include the following categories:
  • minced meat of poultry, ratites and wild game-birds, frozen or chilled
  • chilled minced meat from animals other than poultry
  • chilled meat preparations
  • unprocessed meat produced from meat initially imported in GB from the EU
 
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