Brexit, for once some facts.

Jesus H Christ

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Dec 31, 2020
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I watched the Welsh Government Coronavirus Briefing today the speaker was Vaughn Gething the Minister for Health and Social Services in Wales.

He has the following to say in regards to the AZ vaccine and the possible increase in blood clots. He said in the 17 million AZ vaccinations that have taken place across the UK and the EU there have been 15 events of deep vain thrombosis and 22 events of pulmonary embolism.

To put this in some context he went on to say that is 0.88 DVT and 1.3 PE for every million vaccines administered. These are tiny numbers in comparison to the number of vaccines that have been issued. You are far more likely to get blood clots from catching covid than you are from getting them from the vaccine.

If these numbers are more or less accurate then I fail to see how in any way they can be used to justify suspending the use of the AZ vaccine.
Zlatan, everyone on here knows that pulling the trigger and suspending use of the Oxford vaccine is a ridiculous over reaction. The EU nation leaders know it too. The objective was to damage the reputation of the vaccine and to undermine confidence in its use. They have been successful.
 

Zlatan

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Nov 26, 2016
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Zlatan, everyone on here knows that pulling the trigger and suspending use of the Oxford vaccine is a ridiculous over reaction. The EU nation leaders know it too. The objective was to damage the reputation of the vaccine and to undermine confidence in its use. They have been successful.
Totally agreed. Seems we are frothing at mouth for stating obvious.
Ironically they all say yes we would have vaccine and not prevent others from having one but justify a system that does just that. And we are the mentally ill ones. Amazing.
I, ll have anyone a bet that tomorrow EMA announce that they advise people to continue having jab, hardly a gamble they have said that all along. Could be EU/Govts ignore that advice as well. There really is no difference in data between yesterday and tommorow.
Just wonder what reaction on here will be when EMA say tomorrow vaccine is safe.. Why are they suddenly more credible? Data hasn't changed. They just spent another 4 days staring at same numbers, will come to same conclusion they came to last week. No link, no problem, get on with it. Like last week. Nothing will have changed but thousands of people have missed jab and more folk have lost confidence in AZ vaccine.
 
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Zlatan

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Nov 26, 2016
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You are definitely losing it. :)

That was Nev you were replying to, not Zlatan.
.
I, m reading and involved so it's relevant to me anyhow. Nev was talking sense. Odd OG agrees with Nev but disagrees with me and JHC? Well not odd for OG.
 
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POLLY

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Aug 10, 2016
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I watched the Welsh Government Coronavirus Briefing today the speaker was Vaughn Gething the Minister for Health and Social Services in Wales.

He has the following to say in regards to the AZ vaccine and the possible increase in blood clots. He said in the 17 million AZ vaccinations that have taken place across the UK and the EU there have been 15 events of deep vain thrombosis and 22 events of pulmonary embolism.

To put this in some context he went on to say that is 0.88 DVT and 1.3 PE for every million vaccines administered. These are tiny numbers in comparison to the number of vaccines that have been issued. You are far more likely to get blood clots from catching covid than you are from getting them from the vaccine.

If these numbers are more or less accurate then I fail to see how in any way they can be used to justify suspending the use of the AZ vaccine.
100% bull crap
 

POLLY

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Totally agreed. Seems we are frothing at mouth for stating obvious.
Ironically they all say yes we would have vaccine and not prevent others from having one but justify a system that does just that. And we are the mentally ill ones. Amazing.
I, ll have anyone a bet that tomorrow EMA announce that they advise people to continue having jab, hardly a gamble they have said that all along. Could be EU/Govts ignore that advice as well. There really is no difference in data between yesterday and tommorow.
Just wonder what reaction on here will be when EMA say tomorrow vaccine is safe.. Why are they suddenly more credible? Data hasn't changed. They just spent another 4 days staring at same numbers, will come to same conclusion they came to last week. No link, no problem, get on with it. Like last week. Nothing will have changed but thousands of people have missed jab and more folk have lost confidence in AZ vaccine.
it's all the same poison
 

Jesus H Christ

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 31, 2020
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Totally agreed. Seems we are frothing at mouth for stating obvious.
Ironically they all say yes we would have vaccine and not prevent others from having one but justify a system that does just that. And we are the mentally ill ones. Amazing.
I, ll have anyone a bet that tomorrow EMA announce that they advise people to continue having jab, hardly a gamble they have said that all along. Could be EU/Govts ignore that advice as well. There really is no difference in data between yesterday and tommorow.
Just wonder what reaction on here will be when EMA say tomorrow vaccine is safe.. Why are they suddenly more credible? Data hasn't changed. They just spent another 4 days staring at same numbers, will come to same conclusion they came to last week. No link, no problem, get on with it. Like last week. Nothing will have changed but thousands of people have missed jab and more folk have lost confidence in AZ vaccine.
Exactly. They will approve it. That’s a given.

The oily French pigmy has been leading this damage campaign, it’s never ever been remotely about safety. The whole episode is steeped in French treachery. It’s a classic example.
 

Zlatan

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Nov 26, 2016
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No, they've missed nothing, their jab will have been slightly delayed.

They've already gone a year of Covid without it, so what is the big deal for you to incessantly rant like you've been doing?
.
It's my god given right to rant. Who gave you permission?
Being serious tho flecc, a delay is a delay, yep a week or so but this could happen every week on this weak evidence and its not just about delay, its about the loss of confidence in vaccines generally and AZ specifically.
French, Dutch and Germans already have a much more cynical approach than we do. This has made it worse... For nothing. No gain whatso ever. All negative and why?
 
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POLLY

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I think they only notify the authorities if there is some clear sign that it's related. Beside those, if you look at the number of people being hospitalised because of Covid, the difference between those who are not vaccinated and those who have received a jab 11+ weeks before, the vaccine effect is small. They are all just as likely to get blood clots as a result of serious covid needing hospitalisation. If you say: covid causes the clots, not the vaccine. You are probably right. However, you accept by the same token the causal link between the virus and blood clots. Now drill down a bit, what if the vaccine produces in some people symptoms of covid because the virus is already there and the body's immune system kicks off violently after the injection?
it's the poison starting to work
 
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flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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It's my god given right to rant. Who gave you permission?
Being serious tho flecc, a delay is a delay, yep a week or so but this could happen every week on this weak evidence and its not just about delay, its about the loss of confidence in vaccines generally and AZ specifically.
French, Dutch and Germans already have a much more cynical approach than we do. This has made it worse... For nothing. No gain whatso ever. All negative and why?
No, none of these. It's only about your obsession with attacking the EU at every perceived opportunity. From prostitutes on plastic chairs a few years ago through to this slight vaccine delay, you just can't stop yourself.

You hate the EU in every way with such an intensity that it's harming you.

Once again, nothing to do with you, let them get on with it since it's their business, not yours.
.
 

Zlatan

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Nov 26, 2016
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No, none of these. It's only about your obsession with attacking the EU at every perceived opportunity. From prostitutes on plastic chairs a few years ago through to this slight vaccine delay, you just can't stop yourself.

You hate the EU in every way with such an intensity that it's harming you.

Once again, nothing to do with you, let them get on with it since it's their business, not yours.
.
Is that the vaccines or plastic chairs? Both I suppose. Notice which aspects stood out for you? I, d forgotten my rant about prostitutes having to wear high viz jackets sitting within 5 metres of road..
Makes a wonderful site when driving for brekky. Young ladies nothing on except high viz jackets doing can can over white plastic chairs with a queu of Gilbert Dongrasangle wagons in layby waiting there go. EU is a wonderful place.
 

oldgroaner

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Nov 15, 2015
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It's my god given right to rant. Who gave you permission?
Being serious tho flecc, a delay is a delay, yep a week or so but this could happen every week on this weak evidence and its not just about delay, its about the loss of confidence in vaccines generally and AZ specifically.
French, Dutch and Germans already have a much more cynical approach than we do. This has made it worse... For nothing. No gain whatso ever. All negative and why?
For some reason they seem to lack our BRITISH enthusiasm to proudly go where no rational human being would be daft enough to.

Long ago I felt much the same way until this happened

I belonged to a Camera Class run by the headmaster of a local school and just before Christmas one year he decided to take a traditional photo of the group using a Gandolfi 10X8" plate Camera and coated glass plates, so week one we coated and dried a couple of plates and tried a shot , when developed the image was too faint, "No problem" he said I can get hold of a Flash powder gun, we'll have all the light we need in a traditional way .
Come the night fifteen of the group are perched on a bench posing, camera set up and image focused under the hood on the ground glass screen. "Here you are" he said handing me this strange contraption of a flash gun and a tin of flash powder. "You can't balls this up, all you have to do is put a scoop of the powder in the tray, wind up the clockwork in the handle, when you press the trigger it with turn that wheel against the lighter flint and lots of sparks will land on the tray and ignite the powder"
What could possibly go wrong? well we did a dummy run without powder and the clockwork operated as planned, plenty of sparks landing on the empty tray.
"Piece of cake!" said I
All set up, clockwork wound "Fire the flash " he ordered taking the cap off the lens.
I press the trigger, lot of spark but no flash
"The powder must have gone off in storage" he mused "put another scoop on."
I did , and again it failed.
"Let's give it one more try I said" hopefully adding another scoop of the powder
:cool:It worked
I felt a searing blast of heat and the world disappeared in a blinding flash
Totally blinded they led me to a seat and put a wet cloth on my head.
As I sat there feeling very much like someone who had been on the spot on that dreadful day in Hiroshima I could hear a lot of strange noises, including the sound of a fire engine in the distance getting rapidly nearer.
When I could see again and came out from under the cloth minus a patch of hair and the eyebrow on the side of my head nearest to the flashgun I was prudently (I thought) holding at arm's length it was to see our group with steps, and standing on desks cleaning a large blackened area of the ceiling above where I had triggered the flashgun.
Up until that point none of us had the slightest idea of the power of flash powder, which not only produces light and heat in abundance, but a truly amazing amount of soot.
My wife was downstairs in the Cookery class and was quite forthright about what I'd done saying " it's not the first time he's blown something up!"
And when Father heard about it he uttered those words of his I treasure to this day
"Nothing is foolproof to the talented fool"
 
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Danidl

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Sep 29, 2016
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Now Ursula Von-Trap is spouting on about not allowing vaccine to leave the EU. :D

What does she want to do, stockpile Oxford vaccine and not use it?
..Nope!. Just stop the Pfizer . Which you are still forgetting is the vaccine in the majority of UK ,EU and US arms at present. Even the EU with the patience of Job gets tired of the carping
 

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
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Is that the vaccines or plastic chairs? Both I suppose. Notice which aspects stood out for you? I, d forgotten my rant about prostitutes having to wear high viz jackets sitting within 5 metres of road..
Makes a wonderful site when driving for brekky. Young ladies nothing on except high viz jackets doing can can over white plastic chairs with a queu of Gilbert Dongrasangle wagons in layby waiting there go. EU is a wonderful place.
At least you could literally "see them coming":cool:
There was a regulation in this country early last century where no airman could sleep more than five yards from his horse
 
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Danidl

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Sep 29, 2016
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Totally agreed. Seems we are frothing at mouth for stating obvious.
Ironically they all say yes we would have vaccine and not prevent others from having one but justify a system that does just that. And we are the mentally ill ones. Amazing.
I, ll have anyone a bet that tomorrow EMA announce that they advise people to continue having jab, hardly a gamble they have said that all along. Could be EU/Govts ignore that advice as well. There really is no difference in data between yesterday and tommorow.
Just wonder what reaction on here will be when EMA say tomorrow vaccine is safe.. Why are they suddenly more credible? Data hasn't changed. They just spent another 4 days staring at same numbers, will come to same conclusion they came to last week. No link, no problem, get on with it. Like last week. Nothing will have changed but thousands of people have missed jab and more folk have lost confidence in AZ vaccine.
The data CAN change. What if there were thousands of people who choose not to respond? , because they felt the effect was minor, or they were very busy or they thought they were alone.. The niggle becomes important, then it becomes identified. Remember back 15months ago, when you were berating the Chinese for not beating haystacks for needles. Of course the problem is that it begets a #METWO response.
The serious point is why are cases of blood clotting underreported in the UK data.? In science the absence of an effect is an effect.
 
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