Brexit, for once some facts.

[Danidl]

Danidl objected to my use of the word 'evolution' in post #599170.



I think it's just a misunderstanding.
I reckon SARS1 evolved from the Spanish flu, SARS2 actually evolved from SARS1.
Danidl reckons it's just random mutations.

I did object.... but not in relation to SARs ... I do not have a knowledge base to make any guess educated or otherwise . but in reference to the variants which have been identified in the UK, SA , Brazil etc variants of Cv19.
One usually refers to evolution as a response to a pressure from the environment favouring specific mutations and it then becoming the dominant trait. .. Well CV19 is suffering no stresses which would favour adaptation.

 

[Woosh]

I did object.... but not in relation to SARs ... I do not have a knowledge base to make any guess educated or otherwise . but in reference to the variants which have been identified in the UK, SA , Brazil etc variants of Cv19.
One usually refers to evolution as a response to a pressure from the environment favouring specific mutations and it then becoming the dominant trait. .. Well CV19 is suffering no stresses which would favour adaptation.

when I wrote that line 'Our own biological evolution is nowhere as fast as that of the corona viruses.', I merely refer to the process called evolution that living things go through over many (say 100) generations.
Mutations are just steps in that evolution.

 

[Wicky]

Patrick Valance at tonight's briefing said new variant could be slightly more "deadly" and that death rate for a 60 Yr old could be raised from 1% to 1.35%...but they hadn't seen an increase
in hospitals??? What's he basing it on then?

The delay proceedure was justified by PC and CW... Both still thought it best strategy but would be watching data from the vaccinated here and elsewhere..????

It could be just early days in the data crunching and just doing the sequencing to know which strain is doing what - The Hospital reference seems to be due to the healthcare interventions possibly keeping fatalities even (and where more likely samples are IDd for strain) however deaths outside hospitals i.e. in care homes is where it could be slightly more deadly showing an unexpected uptick in overall fatality rate / or might be a statistical blip - more numbers needed type of thing.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/955239/NERVTAG_paper_on_variant_of_concern__VOC__B.1.1.7.pdf

 

[oldgroaner]

Peter Jukes@peterjuke
4h

Denmark is sequencing all coronavirus samples and has an alarming view of the U.K. variant Danish officials say that at this stage, they are in a race to vaccinate as many people as possible before the British variant takes hold.
https://t.co/UNV3VSalrP?amp=1

 

[oldgroaner]

COVID-19: Matt Hancock says South African variant could reduce vaccine efficacy by half
Sky News has obtained a video recording of a meeting on Tuesday where the health secretary made the remark.

But Boris contradicts that statement
COVID-19
·
Last night
Boris Johnson says there’s evidence that the UK variant of COVID-19 may have a higher degree of mortality
In a press conference with Professor Chris Whitty and Sir Patrick Vallance, the prime minister announced that early evidence suggests that the UK variant of COVID-19 “may be associated with a higher degree of mortality.” Johnson also clarified that the vaccines being used in the UK “remain effective both against the old variant and this new variant.”


We really, really need to revise our strategy

 

[Woosh]

he is looking to justify the next U turn, possibly tomorrow, on Marr's show.
I reckon he will reduce the waiting time for the second jab to 6 weeks.

 

[oyster]

COVID-19: Matt Hancock says South African variant could reduce vaccine efficacy by half
Sky News has obtained a video recording of a meeting on Tuesday where the health secretary made the remark.

We really, really need to revise our strategy

What to?

It appears the potential vaccine makers are well aware. How quickly can they enhance the vaccines.

What else do you suggest?

 

[oldgroaner]

What to?

It appears the potential vaccine makers are well aware. How quickly can they enhance the vaccines.

What else do you suggest?

The other measures I mentioned
Huge investment in research and development of Vaccines and understanding of all organic threats

Much simpler rapid introduction of higher grade masks for the public and mandatory wearing of them.

I wonder if there would be any mileage in using airborne treatments using Vape technology to apply drugs directly to the sites of attack?
It's not a new idea, as here
https://informaconnect.com/medical-technologies-that-will-be-used-in-vaping/

 

[oyster]

The other measures I mentioned
Huge investment in research and development of Vaccines and understanding of all organic threats

Much simpler rapid introduction of higher grade masks for the public and mandatory wearing of them.

I wonder if there would be any mileage in using airborne treatments using Vape technology to apply drugs directly to the sites of attack?
It's not a new idea, as here
https://informaconnect.com/medical-technologies-that-will-be-used-in-vaping/

I'd certainly like to see something like "Covid-19 Approved Mask" as an identifier/marketing tool. (Modified with date or something like Mk I, II, III, etc., if standard is revised.)

I can imagine a very large online retailer being willing and able to use such an approach. Every supply being properly tested before being offered for sale. Big fines/prison for lying. Price control.

 

[Woosh]

What else do you suggest?

tell people more about the dangers of shopping, even for essentials.
Nobody should hang around for more than 5 minutes in supermarkets.

 

[oyster]

tell people more about the dangers of shopping, even for essentials.
Nobody should hang around for more than 5 minutes in supermarkets.

Have you seen the advert launched yesterday?

https://www.theguardian.com/society/video/2021/jan/22/look-into-my-eyes-uk-government-launches-hard-hitting-stay-at-home-advert-video

 

[oyster]

Following the extra dose discussions:

FDA gives approval for syringes to extract an extra dose from vials of the Covid-19 vaccine
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/23/us/us-coronavirus-saturday/index.html

 

[Zlatan]

Brother in law just had his letter for vaccination. (He, s 73 and considered in a higher risk) Dates of shots are 10 weeks apart and interestingly they have offered to sort transport if he thinks it required. (to take him to a mass vaccination centre outside his own authority (York, he lives in countryside)

 

[Danidl]

Brother in law just had his letter for vaccination. (He, s 73 and considered in a higher risk) Dates of shots are 10 weeks apart and interestingly they have offered to sort transport if he thinks it required. (to take him to a mass vaccination centre outside his own authority (York, he lives in countryside)

Why on earth are they using Mass vaccination centres?. It beggers belief. My information is that the Pfizer vaccine will remain effective indefinitely at minus 70 and 3 DAYs at minus 3 . The obvious , logical thing is to use the Primary School network and then ship supplies out. It is what was done with the BCG vaccines 60 years ago!
Remember the vaccine takes weeks to become effective, and during this period, the person is still vulnerable

 

[flecc]

Why on earth are they using Mass vaccination centres?. It beggers belief. My information is that the Pfizer vaccine will remain effective indefinitely at minus 70 and 3 DAYs at minus 3 .

I think it's the refrigeration issue. My large borough health trust is only using centralised vaccination centres, mainly the regional health centres, and none of our GPs are involved. They are only setting up the appointments from their patient lists.
.

 

[Jesus H Christ]

The other measures I mentioned
Huge investment in research and development of Vaccines and understanding of all organic threats

Much simpler rapid introduction of higher grade masks for the public and mandatory wearing of them.

I wonder if there would be any mileage in using airborne treatments using Vape technology to apply drugs directly to the sites of attack?
It's not a new idea, as here
https://informaconnect.com/medical-technologies-that-will-be-used-in-vaping/

Huge investment in vaccine development is an international effort. It shouldn’t rely on one country.

You can introduce all the mask legislation you like, a significant number of people in this country will refuse to wear them. They claim it’s against their rights, that the gossamer thin tissue suffocates them, that Covid does not exist or they just don’t care about others. We seem to have more of these types than other countries and I guess that is partly the reason why our coffin mountain is bigger than other countries.

I’ve stopped worrying about it and just look after myself and my family now. If these idiots want to kill themselves I hope they hurry up and do it. I gave up on government guidelines long ago. I make my own rules and incrementally, the government rules fall into line with mine, masks, indoor spaces being dangerous, following in a person’s slipstream, it’s not difficult to work out.

 

[Jesus H Christ]

Why on earth are they using Mass vaccination centres?. It beggers belief. My information is that the Pfizer vaccine will remain effective indefinitely at minus 70 and 3 DAYs at minus 3 . The obvious , logical thing is to use the Primary School network and then ship supplies out. It is what was done with the BCG vaccines 60 years ago!
Remember the vaccine takes weeks to become effective, and during this period, the person is still vulnerable

We agree on mass vaccination centres, it’s crazy. Who thought it was a good idea to get millions of people to converge on indoor spaces at the peak of a highly infectious global pandemic? I want to say it’s unbelievable, but sadly it isn’t any more.

I would go for multiple drive through centres on car parks where you get the shot whilst you remain in the car or if that’s no possible, pull under an open sided gazebo to step out. You could then drive a holding area to wait and see if you have a fit, explode whatever FaceTube says might happen after vaccination.

We’d still need mop-up centres for non drivers, but they could be at GPs, Fire Stations, Pharmacies etc.

 

[Danidl]

I think it's the refrigeration issue. My large borough health trust is only using centralised vaccination centres, mainly the regional health centres, and none of our GPs are involved. They are only setting up the appointments from their patient lists.
.

But it is NOT a refrigeration issue.. That is the point. Even a domestic fridge at 3 or C is good for overnight storage. According to FT reports . Every pharmacy and every surgery has adequate facilities, and every school kitchen has a big fridge. My son needs refrigerated DNAase and it comes under a full refrigerated cycle from manufacturer, to the pharmacy to me. Even our health board supplied a suitable domestic sized fridge. Then when he needs specific antibiotics ,they also come in refrigerated cold storage boxes .. massive polystyrene cases, with frozen gell slabs
No I am afraid it is yet another example of groupthink

 

[Woosh]

Why on earth are they using Mass vaccination centres?.

they are run by businesses, friends of tory MPs.

 

[flecc]

No I am afraid it is yet another example of groupthink

Probably not here, since there was no group at the time.

Our Croydon University Hospital was the first of the initial 50 national centres to receive the ultra low temperature freezers and the first supplies of the Pfizer vaccine two months ago.

The health trust had simultaneously made the borough plans on the knowledge at that time, announcing them as we saw that first delivery arrive. With hindsight they could of course change what they are doing now, but why when the centres are quite well set up with separated passage thoughout the vaccination process and the change would be very disruptive and burden already heavily overloaded GPs.

Our London GP's surgeries often don't have enough space for distancing larger numbers. For example for Covid safety the autumn 'flu jabs were done outdoors from a table in front of my surgery by the pavement at the edge of the busy main road.
.