Brexit, for once some facts.

[OxygenJames]

So, Boris Johnson’s independent advisor on The Ministerial Code has concluded that Fat-Arse Patel is a bully. Boris Johnson has responded by saying Fat-Arse Patel has not broken The Ministerial Code and any bullying was inadvertent, let’s move on. Boris Johnson’s Independent Advisor says bullying did take place and he now has no option but to resign.

I believe Fat-Arse was fired a couple of years ago when she broke the ministerial code after arranging a secret meeting with a foreign power.

Boris Johnson is so seriously compromised as a result of his own lying, he is utterly powerless to act. Everyone around him is totally bullet proof.

Rotten to the core doesn’t come close.

Love that woman. So she pisses some snowflakes off. So be it.

 

[Barry Shittpeas]

There is no great reset in the conspiracy sense as VFR400 believes, yet he is right in all the elements that comprise it.

For a long time we've all been heading towards a number of inevitabilities:

1) That we will eventually have to deal with the climate change problem.

2) That we will eventually have to deal with the related overpopulation problem.

3) That to deal with these means we will all have to accept some unpleasant changes.

4) That the interconnected world we've created has given enormous power to multi-national commerce.

5) That this world spanning power means large commerce has disproportionate influence on political policies and the ways they deal with the above.

All of which means future changes which will reset the way we live our lives, and those changes will often not result from the expression of our democratic will.

The arrival of the pandemic Covid-19 and how it takes control away from us has focussed minds worldwide on all this with a recognition that we can't forever defer these issues. We need to deal with them but as said, they will be dealt with by us being told what we must accept, effectively by those who really hold the reins.

The conspiracy theorists hold that all this has been planned by a cabal of the powerful. I disagree, believing that it has resulted from a set of inevitabilities, as much due to our own faults as anything else and now being exploited opportunistically by those who can.
.

I think a re-set will come but it won’t be man made or a collective human effort. Humans are too flawed for that to happen. If and when a re-set does come, it will be nature that delivers it and nature will dictate the terms, no negotiation allowed.

 

[vfr400]

Just run this Great Reset past me please. Don’t post links, I can’t be arsed to read them. Just give me 1) What is being reset 2) How it will be accomplished 3) Who benefits. Cheers.

Every year, world leaders and multi-billionaires go to Davos in Switzerland and discuss what they're going to do with the world, like how it should be governed, how they're going to keep it stable socially, financially, ecologically, and medically. You've probably seen it on the news each time they have the event because it's quite a big thing.

The organization running the event is The World Economic Forum. They have a website and all sorts of publicity stuff on it that you can find with Google.

As a result of all their meetings over the years, they've developed and published a policy and a vision of the future, which they call "The Great Reset".

The vision that they've espoused is like a form of communism. It's unclear whether it's good or bad. They've probably done it with the best of intentions, but, of course, they're all standing above the people that are affected by it. Their opening slide on the now taken down publicity video, said " You'll own nothing and you'll be happy". A really good simile for it is a group of people managing an ant farm. The ants have to do their duty in accordance with rigid structures and controls, but they have all the things that they need, so they're happy.

The main downside to it is that these guys aren't elected, so when they start organising us in the wrong direction, there's little that can be done.

The predicted (by some) effects of it will be:
1. Absolute surveillance, where you'll be tracked everywhere to make sure that you don't do anything you shouldn't. That will make it virtually impossible to get away with a crime, cheat on your employer, etc. Think of Track and Trace as being a first step.
2. Virtual currency. All transactions would be electronic, which would eliminate the black economy.
3. A social merit system, like they have in China, where you lose privileges if you contravene rules. You'd be monitored all the time, so you'd be caught if you spoke out against the agenda, so you'd never do it.
4. Extreme censorship so you won't be able to complain. You can already see that being implemented disguised as hate speech laws and de-platforming, like what happens to anyone that speaks out against covid measures.

It's like many things. If the ant farmers are decent people, it could work very well, but there's always the possibility that one of them becomes bored and gets out the magnifying glass to fry a few. That could manifest itself in something like a rule that people that can no longer contribute anything useful, like the elderly people in nursing homes should be removed. The bad thing is that it takes away most of personal choice. Freedoms like free-speech, right to protest, etc will be gone.

IMHO, all the covid restrictions, like lock-downs and wearing masks are part of it. As you can see, people are extremely compliant, and anybody that doesn't comply now gets swift justice. There's no science behind these measures and the people forcing them in are all tied to the various unelected super-power networks, like UN, WHO, EEC, etc.

These people own and control the media. That's why all the media are working to the same agenda and vilifying anybody that doesn't go along with it, as you can see with the way they treat Trump.

Anecdotally, the various world leaders that mention The great Reset have started spouting the catchphrase, "Build back better", which is a clue to who's completely signed up to it.

When you understand what they're working towards, all the weird things in the recent past start to make sense, like why they don't care about all the small businesses that they're destroying and people going bankrupt. They will all be looked after and become dependent.

The most important point is that their published timescale is ten years to completion. Don't think that this is just a conspiracy theory or it's something that might not happen. Their main obstacle is Trump, and you can see how many resources they're throwing at him to get him out the way. When he's gone, it'll be full steam ahead.

 

[Barry Shittpeas]

Love that woman. So she pisses some snowflakes off. So be it.

I don’t have any feelings about Fat-Arse one way or the other. I know what you mean, some people have a hair trigger with regards to workplace grievances, almost to the point of seeking out things to get upset about. However, I also know that there are some psychopaths out there who make people’s working lives unbearable which in turn makes them ill.

I honestly don’t know which category Fat-Arse falls into, but the man Boris Johnson chose to advise him on such matters believes standards of behaviour have been broken. The advisor is no fool, he seems to have a credible CV, so if asked to choose between him and Johnson who is a proven liar, coward and dodger of responsibility, I’d choose the advisor.

 

[OxygenJames]

Two different subjects with no sensible link.

Well - give the guy a break - he did preface it with "at the risk of being utter insensitive and crass.."

 

[OxygenJames]

...so if asked to choose between him and Johnson who is a proven liar, coward and dodger of responsibility, I’d choose the advisor.

But you're not - you're being asked to choose between Pritti Patel and Alex Allen.

I know who gets my vote.

 

[OxygenJames]

Every year, world leaders and multi-billionaires go to Davos in Switzerland and discuss what they're going to do with the world, like how it should be governed, how they're going to keep it stable socially, financially, ecologically, and medically. You've probably seen it on the news each time they have the event because it's quite a big thing.

The organization running the event is The World Economic Forum. They have a website and all sorts of publicity stuff on it that you can find with Google.

As a result of all their meetings over the years, they've developed and published a policy and a vision of the future, which they call "The Great Reset".

The vision that they've espoused is like a form of communism. It's unclear whether it's good or bad. They've probably done it with the best of intentions, but, of course, they're all standing above the people that are affected by it. Their opening slide on the now taken down publicity video, said " You'll own nothing and you'll be happy". A really good simile for it is a group of people managing an ant farm. The ants have to do their duty in accordance with rigid structures and controls, but they have all the things that they need, so they're happy.

The main downside to it is that these guys aren't elected, so when they start organising us in the wrong direction, there's little that can be done.

The predicted (by some) effects of it will be:
1. Absolute surveillance, where you'll be tracked everywhere to make sure that you don't do anything you shouldn't. That will make it virtually impossible to get away with a crime, cheat on your employer, etc. Think of Track and Trace as being a first step.
2. Virtual currency. All transactions would be electronic, which would eliminate the black economy.
3. A social merit system, like they have in China, where you lose privileges if you contravene rules. You'd be monitored all the time, so you'd be caught if you spoke out against the agenda, so you'd never do it.
4. Extreme censorship so you won't be able to complain. You can already see that being implemented disguised as hate speech laws and de-platforming, like what happens to anyone that speaks out against covid measures.

It's like many things. If the ant farmers are decent people, it could work very well, but there's always the possibility that one of them becomes bored and gets out the magnifying glass to fry a few. That could manifest itself in something like a rule that people that can no longer contribute anything useful, like the elderly people in nursing homes should be removed. The bad thing is that you have it takes away most of personal choice. freedoms like free-speech, right to protest, etc will be gone.

IMHO, all the covid restrictions, like lock-downs and wearing masks are part of it. As you can see, people are extremely compliant, and anybody that doesn't comply now gets swift justice. There's no science behind these measures and the people forcing them in are all tied to the various unelected super-power networks, like UN, WHO, EEC, etc.

These people own and control the media. That's why all the media are working to the same agenda and vilifying anybody that doesn't go along with it, as you can see with the way they treat Trump.

Anecdotally, the various world leaders that mention The great Reset have started spouting the catchphrase, "Build back better", which is a clue to who's completely signed up to it.

When you understand what they're working towards, all the weird things in the recent past start to make sense, like why they don't care about all the small businesses that they're destroying and people going bankrupt. They will all be looked after and become dependent.

Another piece of fantasy from v-(when I said michigan)-f-(I didn't mean all of michigan)-r.

 

[OxygenJames]

There is no great reset in the conspiracy sense as VFR400 believes, yet he is right in all the elements that comprise it.

For a long time we've all been heading towards a number of inevitabilities:

1) That we will eventually have to deal with the climate change problem.

2) That we will eventually have to deal with the related overpopulation problem.

3) That to deal with these means we will all have to accept some unpleasant changes.

4) That the interconnected world we've created has given enormous power to multi-national commerce.

5) That this world spanning power means large commerce has disproportionate influence on political policies and the ways they deal with the above.

All of which means future changes which will reset the way we live our lives, and those changes will often not result from the expression of our democratic will.

The arrival of the pandemic Covid-19 and how it takes control away from us has focussed minds worldwide on all this with a recognition that we can't forever defer these issues. We need to deal with them but as said, they will be dealt with by us being told what we must accept, effectively by those who really hold the reins.

The conspiracy theorists hold that all this has been planned by a cabal of the powerful. I disagree, believing that it has resulted from a set of inevitabilities, as much due to our own faults as anything else and now being exploited opportunistically by those who can.
.

Small correction. There is no overpopulation problem. The population is levelling off anyway (current estimates say around 10b). More people tends to bring more innovation and more new technology and more new ways to solve problems - it's not just negative.

 

[Barry Shittpeas]

Every year, world leaders and multi-billionaires go to Davos in Switzerland and discuss what they're going to do with the world, like how it should be governed, how they're going to keep it stable socially, financially, ecologically, and medically. You've probably seen it on the news each time they have the event because it's quite a big thing.

The organization running the event is The World Economic Forum. They have a website and all sorts of publicity stuff on it that you can find with Google.

As a result of all their meetings over the years, they've developed and published a policy and a vision of the future, which they call "The Great Reset".

The vision that they've espoused is like a form of communism. It's unclear whether it's good or bad. They've probably done it with the best of intentions, but, of course, they're all standing above the people that are affected by it. Their opening slide on the now taken down publicity video, said " You'll own nothing and you'll be happy". A really good simile for it is a group of people managing an ant farm. The ants have to do their duty in accordance with rigid structures and controls, but they have all the things that they need, so they're happy.

The main downside to it is that these guys aren't elected, so when they start organising us in the wrong direction, there's little that can be done.

The predicted (by some) effects of it will be:
1. Absolute surveillance, where you'll be tracked everywhere to make sure that you don't do anything you shouldn't. That will make it virtually impossible to get away with a crime, cheat on your employer, etc.
2. Virtual currency. All transactions would be electronic, which would eliminate the black economy.
3. A social merit system, like they have in China, where you lose privileges if you contravene rules.
4. Extreme censorship so you won't be able to complain. You can already see that being implemented disguised as hate speech laws and de-platforming, like what happens to anyone that speaks out against covid measures.

It's like many things. If the ant farmers are decent people, it could work very well, but there's always the possibility that one gets bored and gets out the magnifying glass to fry a few. The bad thing is that you have no choice.

IMHO, all the covid restrictions, like lock-downs and wearing masks are part of it. As you can see, people are extremely compliant , and anybody that doesn't comply now gets swift justice. There's no science behind these measures and the people forcing them in are all tied to the various unelected super-power networks, like UN, WHO, EEC, etc.

These people own and control the media. That's why all the media are working to the same agenda.

Anecdotally, the various world leaders that mention The great Reset have started spouting the catchphrase, "Build back better", which is a clue to who's completely signed up to it.

When you understand what they're working towards, all the weird things in the recent past start to make sense, like why they don't care about all the small businesses that they're destroying and people going bankrupt. They will all be looked after and become dependent.

I’m familiar with The World Economic Forum and Davos. It is possible to make what you say fit into the world right now, but it’s a bit like a jigsaw piece that fits into the space, but you know it’s wrong because the picture isn’t right.

COVID is real, I have many relatives who are hospital Doctors, nurses and other care providers. The full wards, the bigger than usual pile of bodies and the extra people needing therapy for COVID affects tell me that.

I can also see the need for masks, movement restrictions and controls on social activity. I was doing these things without be asked, it’s just common sense. I don’t believe any of this is to do with a reset and it has everything to do with virus control. Viruses thrive on people moving about and socialising, so it makes sense to try and control these things.

I’m sorry, but personally, I don’t buy it.

 

[OxygenJames]

Not really. Johnson is a liar, a coward, lacks judgement, is allergic to decision making and is an incompetent buffoon. Corbyn is simply an enemy of ordinary working British people. That’s far worse.

I like Boris. Always have. I know loads here don't. So be it - we had an election - and he won. Get over it comes to mind.

Not that you're not entitled to your opinion Barry - but - you know - for the record and all that.

 

[OxygenJames]

I’m familiar with The World Economic Forum and Davos. It is possible to make what you say fit into the world right now, but it’s a bit like a jigsaw piece that fits into the space, but you know it’s wrong because the picture isn’t right.

COVID is real, I have many relatives who are hospital Doctors, nurses and other care providers. The full wards, the bigger than usual pile of bodies and the extra people needing therapy for COVID affects tell me that.

I can also see the need for masks, movement restrictions and controls on social activity. I was doing these things without be asked, it’s just common sense. I don’t believe any of this is to do with a reset and it has everything to do with virus control. Viruses thrive on people moving about and socialising, so it makes sense to try and control these things.

I’m sorry, but personally, I don’t buy it.

Nor do I - but v-(when I said michigan)-f-(I didn't mean all of michigan)-r buys pretty much any nonsense he reads - providing it means there is some vast secret underground plan involving shadowy dastardly players way more important than himself - then he's hooked.

Just wait till his next post.

 

[vfr400]

I’m sorry, but personally, I don’t buy it.

You will soon.

 

[flecc]

Small correction. There is no overpopulation problem. The population is levelling off anyway (current estimates say around 10b). More people tends to bring more innovation and more new technology and more new ways to solve problems - it's not just negative.

Agreed, but there is a very real perception that there is a population problem, albeit false.

So there could conceivably be moves to deal with it, either real like China's past effort or, more likely, token.
.

 

[Barry Shittpeas]

You will soon.

I’ll ride my luck and chances on this, but thank you for taking the time to explain your thoughts.

 

[Barry Shittpeas]

TSIW “scunnered”. I had to look that up.

 

[oldgroaner]

OK - enough vfr bashing (for now).

Let's get back to the original topic of this thread..... Brexit!

I read this today and - of course given I voted leave - liked it a lot:

"I hate to admit it, but the Remainiacs were right. Everything that they said would happen, has happened. The traumatised economy. The emergency budgets. The empty shelves. The closed borders.

Of course, the cause of these misfortunes is Covid-19, not Brexit. And thus the main event of the last few years has become a sideshow in 2020. As a result, the anti-Brexiteers have struggled to promote their narrative. However, with the Brexit negotiations coming to a head, one of their talking points is now bound to be heard — which is that, deal or no deal, we’re leaving the EU at the worst possible time. Who needs an extra set of complications when we’ve got a pandemic to deal with?

It’s a reasonable argument, but one that overlooks the counterfactual. Had the referendum gone the other way our continuing membership of the EU would have caused a different set of complications. Indeed, we’d be in a worse situation than we are now.

If Remain had won in 2016, it’s hard to say who’d be Prime Minister in 2020, but whoever the lucky person, he or she would have had a European nightmare to deal with. Not Brexit, but Britain’s involvement in the EU’s Covid rescue plan.

Consider what actually happened in Europe this year. While every country has suffered, some have suffered more than others. Those trapped by the constraints of the eurozone are in a particular bind — because they can’t devalue their currency or print money. Therefore they need help from their fellow member states.

Just what sort of help (and how much) was the subject of a high-stakes drama back in the spring and summer. Though we barely paid attention to it on this side of the Channel, it was a showdown between the “frugal four” nations (the Netherlands, Austria, Denmark and Sweden) and the Covid-racked countries of Southern Europe, especially Italy.

Even before the virus, Italy was in dire straits, condemned to stagnation thanks to the eurozone. Covid turned that crisis into an emergency, so something had to be done. The Dutch and their allies, however, were not happy about having to bail out the southerners again — and certainly not in the midst of their own national emergencies. In the end, the French and Germans forced a compromise, but not before Mark Rutte — the Dutch PM — was painted as the cold-hearted villain of the piece.

Now, let’s replay these events — only this time with Britain still in the EU. The frugal four would have been a frugal five — and the chief villain would have been the British PM. Indeed, if we’d been part of these negotiations, an already bitter dispute would have become something much worse — because the Franco-German proposal would have been impossible for Britain to accept.

The actual rescue package consists of €750 billion in grants and loans. The necessary funds are to be borrowed by the European Commission from the money markets, with the liability shared among all EU member states. Thus, assuming a similar package in the no-Brexit scenario, there’d have been two poison pills for the UK.

Firstly, money: we’d be paying tens of billions towards a “recovery fund” whose ultimate purpose is to bail out the eurozone. British eurosceptics have long warned that monetary union is inherently fragile to asymmetric shocks; that’s why everyone from Gordon Brown to Nigel Farage fought so hard to keep us out of the single currency. Yet, without Brexit, there we’d be, paying to prop it up anyway.

The second poison pill is about power: allowing the Commission to borrow hundreds of billions of Euros is a massive step towards fiscal integration, and hence a fully-fledged superstate. Of course, because of Brexit, that’s the EU’s business, not ours. But what if Brexit hadn’t happened and it was our business?

Back in 2016, the Government promised us that the “UK will not be part of a further European political integration” and that no “UK powers can be transferred to the EU in the future without a referendum”. Well, giving Brussels the ability to borrow vast sums of money is about as political as it gets, involving the transfer of national powers to the EU because agreeing to underwrite someone else’s borrowing reduces how much you can borrow in your own name. Thus, had we stayed in, the promise would have been broken — a nation of reluctant Remainers betrayed.

A Conservative Prime Minister would have faced a full-scale party revolt — including Cabinet resignations and backbench defections. Therefore, he or she would have no choice but to block the deal. There’d also be overwhelming pressure from the EU to let the deal through, and as the Greeks can tell you, the masters of the eurozone will do “whatever it takes” to save the single currency. All blackmail options would have been on the table — including an end to Britain’s budgetary rebate.

In other words, an irresistible force would have met an immovable object. And whenever that happens, something breaks — most likely the British Government. In the middle of a pandemic.

Back in the real world, we need to ask whether the rescue package is enough to keep the Italians and others afloat through the brutal recovery period that lies ahead. The answer is probably not — and, in fact, the cracks are beginning to show. In the run-up to this week’s EU summit, Poland and Hungary are threatening to veto the recovery fund and the entire EU budget. Even if that’s just brinksmanship, there’s a deeper problem.

While the recipient countries are happy to help themselves to the grant component of the fund, they’re not so keen on the loans — because these come with onerous conditions. Instead, the recipients have been borrowing the money they need on the open market, thus circumventing the conditions they object to. They’re able to do this at a low interest rate because of the European Central Bank buying up debt issued by eurozone member states.

And so the weaker economies have been filling their boots, which is the sort of thing that got the eurozone into trouble before. The ECB could crack down by cutting off bond purchases. However, this could trigger the sovereign debt crisis the Bank is so desperate to avoid.

It would be easier for Brussels and Frankfurt to keep things under control if any extra money required over-and-above the €750 billion were also to be borrowed and doled out by the European Commission. There’s no immediate proposal for this to happen, but having crossed the fiscal Rubicon once already, the next trip to the money markets will be much easier — and the trip after that. I wouldn’t want to bet my house on this summer’s rescue package being a one-time deal.

Covid has taken all the old imbalances and fragilities in the eurozone and made them worse. Further bail-outs are all but inevitable. Given the new model for raising emergency funds, it’s just as well we’re no longer on the hook.

The words “post-Brexit Britain” conjure up an unfamiliar environment fraught with danger. By voting to leave, we’ve supposedly condemned ourselves to a future full of uncertainty, while our neighbours remain secure within the European Union. But as we’ve seen, the post-Covid world means risk and uncertainty for all.

The only way that any nation can prevail in such circumstances is to stay adaptable. We must react with speed and agility to the risks that we can manage, while reducing our exposure to those that we can’t. Remaining in the EU would have compromised our freedom of action on both counts.

It is not that the EU is completely paralysed. As the recovery fund demonstrates, it is capable of changes of direction — albeit after a protracted period of wrangling. However, when the breakthrough does come it is always in the direction of further integration, of further compromises to national sovereignty. In voting to leave we did not just leave the EU as it was in 2016, but also the EU as it is now becoming.

As a result, we still have the opportunity to make the wise and timely decisions on which our future depends. Of course, that does not mean that we will — because that requires a competent, visionary government.

But at least we will be responsible for our own failings, instead of being made responsible for those of others."


Peter Franklin is Associate Editor of UnHerd. He was previously a policy advisor and speechwriter on environmental and social issues.

That deserves a suitable response

 

[OxygenJames]

Agreed, but there is a very real perception that there is a population problem, albeit false.

So there could conceivably be moves to deal with it, either real like China's past effort or, more likely, token.
.

Right. And population tends to level off when GDP hits a certain level - hence pretty much all developed countries are now levelled off. People tend to have more kids when they're poor.

The most rapid acceleration of world population is over though - we're levelling off.

 

[OxygenJames]

That deserves a suitable response

He lives! OG you old groaner. We missed you.

 

[oyster]

Love that woman. So she pisses some snowflakes off. So be it.

Like Helen Chadwick?

 

[Danidl]

Right. And population tends to level off when GDP hits a certain level - hence pretty much all developed countries are now levelled off. People tend to have more kids when they're poor.

The most rapid acceleration of world population is over though - we're levelling off.

Except a high level GDP absorbs excessive resources.