According to Barry, London is doing better than the rest of the country because the people are clever and don't talk funny.
Perhaps he hasn't had the misfortune to see an episode of Eastenders.
Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
- Start date
Perhaps he hasn't had the misfortune to see an episode of Eastenders.
Did I get that wrong, maybe it was Rearenders?
I think Barry excluded Londoners from his post.
Forget the Eastenders show, that is a historic caricature. As just another minority, only just over 40% of Londoners are white British born, which of course includes all the many Scots, Welsh and all those from the English regions resident here. Probably well under 30% of London residents are London born with only a small fraction of them born within the Cockney area of East London.
My parents and brother were Eastenders and I'm a Cockney too, but you wouldn't know it from speaking with any of us. Indeed my brother was one of the Oxford accented establishment on the Queen's invitation list.
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And there would be
No thank you
And there would have been tens of thousands less of us left around to complain.
No thank you
Largely the ones who are still going to die of Covid-19 anyway in the near future.
They are still dying if you hadn't noticed, and will continue to if and until there's an effective vaccine and if and until there's 7.5 billion doses delivered.
Years away so most will die meanwhile.
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.. BsP ,you have a heart?. Who knew?. .. on this I agree. A short sharp shutdown can work provided it is then followed by a consistent contact trace system. Northern Ireland is now the worst region in the UK,with 3 times the rate as RoI ,and with less resources and efforts being applied.
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government has to take decisions and can't pass that responsibility to the people.
Take the issue of test, trace and isolate.
If the contact tracer calls 5 people per case and tell them to isolate, each one may lose a lot more than £500 in income for staying at home for 2 weeks. Are they going to be compensated for that? That is a minimum £2,500 worth of damage.
If you divide £200 billions into 530,000 confirmed cases, each case causes a staggering £377,358 worth of damage.
To achieve herd immunity at low cost, you would have to let 1.5 million people die in their homes. Would you continue with contact tracing knowing that each one told to isolate will lose two week employment?
Economically, let people die is not a good move. The better move is to expand hospitals.
Flecc , I assume that "Some in here argue that reduction was due to the public reacting and taking the necessary defensive actions."..refers to my stance, and if so fair comment.
However figures from TfL indicate that Tube journeys are a 40% of Pre CV19 rates and Bus at 60% ..but that allowed for pre return to Work/ College , with the more inclement weather , people will be driven to commute and rates will increase. I am not wishing London anything bad, but it seems inevitable
However figures from TfL indicate that Tube journeys are a 40% of Pre CV19 rates and Bus at 60% ..but that allowed for pre return to Work/ College , with the more inclement weather , people will be driven to commute and rates will increase. I am not wishing London anything bad, but it seems inevitable
The only real problem with the " let it rip " scenario is it doesn't work ! Let's say you work in an office environment and walk in one day with a stinking cold, you end up giving it to others who in turn give it to their wives kids etc.
ok so it lets rip and many people catch your cold any harm done ? Absenteeism at work, kids off school the mrs can't go into her factory as they handle food and on it goes. All that needed to be done was to have a couple of days off from the office and save everybody else, forget about yourself for a second you already have the cold why share it.
The most ridiculous thing of all is to assume that having caught your cold/virus you are now immune so can never catch it again.
ok so it lets rip and many people catch your cold any harm done ? Absenteeism at work, kids off school the mrs can't go into her factory as they handle food and on it goes. All that needed to be done was to have a couple of days off from the office and save everybody else, forget about yourself for a second you already have the cold why share it.
The most ridiculous thing of all is to assume that having caught your cold/virus you are now immune so can never catch it again.
I haven't argued for any of this and indeed have posted against forced isolation, so there's no economic loss from compensation for being stuck at home.
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Trouble is the lockdown measures don't work either.
Take all those Northern English areas. They didn't have the 2.5 times early hit that London took, perhaps through taking the government advice more, but their rates as a result have inevitably been rising since. So the government imposed tough local measures to deal with that.
The outcome is that the infection rates have risen ten to twentyfold in those areas since the tough measures, as Keir Starmer was saying in the House only this morning.
You can't have it all ways, saying it's highly infectious and saying it's easily avoidable, those outcomes show that is not the case.
If you are someone who is vulnerable to catching it and its highly infectious, you will get it eventually.
If having caught it, you are someone who is vulnerable to dying from it and it's so dangerous, you will die.
Might as well let it rip and reduce the numbers of vulnerable spreading it, thus reducing the deaths without such massive economic and educational damage.
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lockdown works only if most people stop mixing.
When you look at local lockdowns like Manchester, people pouring out of pubs at 10PM - go buy booze and continue partying somewhere else.
To make lockdown work, you have to close non-essential venues like pubs, university residences and send students home.
When you look at local lockdowns like Manchester, people pouring out of pubs at 10PM - go buy booze and continue partying somewhere else.
To make lockdown work, you have to close non-essential venues like pubs, university residences and send students home.
If you let it rip you get Bergamo.. and triage and huge death rates. No the China and NZ models actually work, and the quarantine model with 1500 years of experience from Venice works
Sorry but I'm not buying any of that
It's wrong on so many levels, far too dismissive of the amount of grief such a policy will bring.
It devalues humanity for the sake of convenience and profit
Would I volunteer to catch the virus for the sake of herd immunity? of course not.
brinkmanship. Bluff.
we have to do deals with most if not all our commercial partners even if that takes years.
I've never once advocated Herd Immunity and like everyone else I don't even know if it could exist.
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