Brexit, for once some facts.

flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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Again, lack of information really is a problem. The time that the virus remains potent on hard surfaces has been claimed to be from a few hours to 72 hours (and probably "forever" according to some sources). But we have no real understanding of whether that means a letterbox in bright sunshine or the underside of the flap in dark shade will be similarly affected.
Our flats letterboxes never see sunshine since they are within the external hallway, keeping viruses cosy.
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Barry Shittpeas

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It illustrates the paucity of successful UK manufacturing firms to choose from.
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I reached that conclusion too. When you give it some thought, just how many U.K. owned manufacturing companies are there?

The JCB stupidity also illustrates just how utterly clueless people are with regards to manufacturing and engineering. To suppose that a company involved in heavy sheet metal fabrication and brute force hydraulics can suddenly start making delicate high precision medical equipment says it all.

The latest noise from the government on this front has now turned to Rolls Royce Aero.
 

Woosh

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I don't drink any alcohol. Most of those drinks I regard as disgusting and don't understand why they are liked.
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you are only half Italian.
 

Danidl

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This illustrates the failings in the real world that I was discussing with Danidl.

The driver comes to non self isolating people in my block of flats, using the outside handle of the hall doorway with his bare hands to enter, then when leaving the inside door handle as well.

Those door handles are used by all the residents and everyone else visiting/delivering mail, goods etc., so at high risk of contamination.

So then the driver can take his contaminated hands to everyone else, including those he puts on gloves for, since putting on gloves with contaminated hands means contaminating the gloves too. In any case the door handles will contaminate gloves if he's wearing them.

This is why containment will not work, the precautions are riddled with flaws in real world practical circumstances operated by fallible humans.
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My daughter spends her working day in gloves. Gloves can be moistened with alcohol or bleach . The driver puts them on at home and periodically moistens them from a bleach wipe. It is not absolute but it reduces contamination by factors of hundreds. I , when As I have now, go to the shop, use my credit card and tap, then I wash it on return. The aim is to reduce the R number below 2 . R being the contact ratio . Unfortunately todays shop had a problem and I had to use the pin number, so the card and hand remained outside pockets etc until home and washed. My bread shop has a customer table at the door, so no one inside, and the assistant walks the 3 metres back to the bread supply. A similar setup in a small butchers in the village
Containment works, if there is limited arrogance. Yes I suppose it would be difficult to walk along Oxford St. while keeping 3 metres apart, but Wimbledon Common would be feasible. In my village, where Eastwards the nearest land is Blackpool , the amount of viruses will be small, and the density of walkers low as well
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,276
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you are only half Italian.
Indeed and in practice very English in most of my behaviours, except food and cooking. A friend who also has one Italian parent is the opposite, very Italian and temperamental but oddly doesn't cook!
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,276
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My daughter spends her working day in gloves. Gloves can be moistened with alcohol or bleach . The driver puts them on at home and periodically moistens them from a bleach wipe. It is not absolute but it reduces contamination by factors of hundreds. I , when As I have now, go to the shop, use my credit card and tap, then I wash it on return. The aim is to reduce the R number below 2 . R being the contact ratio . Unfortunately todays shop had a problem and I had to use the pin number, so the card and hand remained outside pockets etc until home and washed. My bread shop has a customer table at the door, so no one inside, and the assistant walks the 3 metres back to the bread supply. A similar setup in a small butchers in the village
Containment works, if there is limited arrogance. Yes I suppose it would be difficult to walk along Oxford St. while keeping 3 metres apart, but Wimbledon Common would be feasible. In my village, where Eastwards the nearest land is Blackpool , the amount of viruses will be small, and the density of walkers low as well
Of course if done properly this can work. But as I showed with ASDA's example, it won't be done properly, exactly as I've been telling you.

The world is full of knowledge of what should be, but in practice full of what shouldn' t be.

It's those perverse humans who are the trouble as ever.
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Wicky

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I reached that conclusion too. When you give it some thought, just how many U.K. owned manufacturing companies are there?

The JCB stupidity also illustrates just how utterly clueless people are with regards to manufacturing and engineering. To suppose that a company involved in heavy sheet metal fabrication and brute force hydraulics can suddenly start making delicate high precision medical equipment says it all.

The latest noise from the government on this front has now turned to Rolls Royce Aero.
James Dyson personally okay with his home ventilator

 

Woosh

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Some Chinese patients in Hubei were interviewed on BBC1 last month.
They were given anti HIV pills and it worked for them.
remdesivir?
 

Barry Shittpeas

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Some Chinese patients in Hubei were interviewed on BBC1 last month.
They were given anti HIV pills and it worked for them.
remdesivir?
I normally run a mile from conspiracy theories, but I feel that there is a lot more to Coronavirus than we are being told. Why the drastic lock-down measures? HIV drugs?
 

oyster

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oyster

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I normally run a mile from conspiracy theories, but I feel that there is a lot more to Coronavirus than we are being told. Why the drastic lock-down measures? HIV drugs?
HIV drugs are being used simply because they exist.

For all sorts of reasons, HIV went from unknown to being very intensively studied. (At the same time, treatment of some other diseases actually went backwards.) Hence a considerable number of medicines were at least tried. Not altogether suprising if some of them also have an impact on covid-19.

(I saw someone the other day claiming that covid-19 has a string of genetic material that came from HIV - which proves it was made in a lab - merging SARS and HIV. I think it unlikely.)
 

jonathan.agnew

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Dec 27, 2018
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I reached that conclusion too. When you give it some thought, just how many U.K. owned manufacturing companies are there?

The JCB stupidity also illustrates just how utterly clueless people are with regards to manufacturing and engineering. To suppose that a company involved in heavy sheet metal fabrication and brute force hydraulics can suddenly start making delicate high precision medical equipment says it all.

The latest noise from the government on this front has now turned to Rolls Royce Aero.
but it sounds patriotic, which to a certain kind of flag in my flat window I like red busses kind of voter matters more than reality (or whetehr granny is about to die from corona). especially when accompanied by a fat pantomime Churchillian idiot in a hard hat and hi viz. I often wonder exactly how low boris can go in the depraved politician stakes.
 
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oyster

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I reached that conclusion too. When you give it some thought, just how many U.K. owned manufacturing companies are there?

The JCB stupidity also illustrates just how utterly clueless people are with regards to manufacturing and engineering. To suppose that a company involved in heavy sheet metal fabrication and brute force hydraulics can suddenly start making delicate high precision medical equipment says it all.

The latest noise from the government on this front has now turned to Rolls Royce Aero.
The obvious thing to do isn't go from one to another, with the obvious delays, but to shout from the rooftops: "Can anyone make ventilators? Loads of money if you can."
 
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jonathan.agnew

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Dec 27, 2018
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My daughter spends her working day in gloves. Gloves can be moistened with alcohol or bleach . The driver puts them on at home and periodically moistens them from a bleach wipe. It is not absolute but it reduces contamination by factors of hundreds. I , when As I have now, go to the shop, use my credit card and tap, then I wash it on return. The aim is to reduce the R number below 2 . R being the contact ratio . Unfortunately todays shop had a problem and I had to use the pin number, so the card and hand remained outside pockets etc until home and washed. My bread shop has a customer table at the door, so no one inside, and the assistant walks the 3 metres back to the bread supply. A similar setup in a small butchers in the village
Containment works, if there is limited arrogance. Yes I suppose it would be difficult to walk along Oxford St. while keeping 3 metres apart, but Wimbledon Common would be feasible. In my village, where Eastwards the nearest land is Blackpool , the amount of viruses will be small, and the density of walkers low as well
listened to bbc womens hour earlier. wittering on about mindfulness and how we shouldn't take corona too seriously -or self isolate - and meditate while going about our daily business as usual. quite disturbing the way the bbc with each change of govt seem to endorse whatever is official policy wholeheartedly. I guess there is an establishment after all who simply view us as consumers that need to spend to keep it floating.
 
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Woosh

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I normally run a mile from conspiracy theories, but I feel that there is a lot more to Coronavirus than we are being told. Why the drastic lock-down measures? HIV drugs?
don't know.
anti HIV and chloroquine are both antivirals, but their actions on the virus are different.
Therefore, some combinations seem to work in synergy.
You need drugs that reach the lungs quickly and inhibit the fusion of the virus with human cells.
The effect on the stock market worldwide has been so severe that I wouldn't be surprised that more shady people/companies would try to develop variants of SARS type viruses.
 

oyster

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UK government tells World Health Organisation "You don't know anything about corona virus. We are much much more expert than you. So stop telling us what we should do. Just bog off back to wherever you came from and never darken our doors again."

Or so it appears.

Coronavirus updates: WHO tells countries to 'test, test, test', as EU proposes 30-day travel ban – live news

Director-general of World Health Organization says ‘We cannot fight a fire blindfolded’ and urges governments to test public; US measures ramped up; Germany closes shops.
 
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oyster

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Johnson says everyone is now being urged to avoid non-essential contact with others

Boris Johnson is speaking now.
He says we need to go further.
  • Johnson says it looks as though we are approaching the “fast growth” phase of the curve. That means cases are expected to double every five days.
  • Families are being urged to stay at home for 14 days if any member of the household is ill, Johnson says.
  • He says it is time for everyone to stop non-essential contact with others. That means people should work from home where possible and avoid pubs, clubs and theatres.
Johnson says the advice on people avoiding non-essential contact is particularly important for people who are over-70, for people who are pregnant and for people with underlying health conditiions.
 
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