Brexit, for once some facts.

[oldgroaner]

In the Telegraph this morning
"
Who won the BBC debate? Boris Johnson's best performance saw off Jeremy Corbyn and his Santa-sack of freebies
And in the Expresss
Storming Boris Johnson trounces Corbyn in final showdown before Britons head to the polls
BORIS JOHNSON trounced Jeremy Corbyn last night in their final live television clash of the battle to be Britain’s next prime...

That's strange I keep wondering how i missed this debate, the one I saw wasn't like that at all, there was a mumbling blond buffoon who ended every sentence with "Let's get Brexit done" despite being told that is years away.

 

[oldgroaner]

And the Mail is really struggling with this
"
Russia WAS behind leaked documents Corbyn used to 'prove' Tories plan to sell off NHS: Reddit bans 61 accounts linked to Labour dossier amid fears Moscow tried to manipulate Election - as PM mocks rival's 'Bermuda Triangle' claims

No one doubts that Russia did it, and no one can dispute that these are genuine documents either.
What a shame Boris sat on the Russian interference report, isn't it?
Then we should have seen what aid the leave campaign received.

It's the supreme irony that Russia is in a position to manipulate the election by revealing the truth Boris is trying to conceal
Quite clearly they have access to everything the Conservative government says and does, which means we have no defence from them under this "take back control of our borders" and "strong on defence" regime.
This paper clearly regards the Tory voters as too thick to understand what a show of incompetence this is on the part of the Government!

Of course the Tory supporters will try to use this as evidence that Putin is against Brexit going ahead, where it clearly is intended as a red herring to further disrupt events.

 

[oyster]

In the Telegraph this morning
"
Who won the BBC debate? Boris Johnson's best performance saw off Jeremy Corbyn and his Santa-sack of freebies
And in the Expresss
Storming Boris Johnson trounces Corbyn in final showdown before Britons head to the polls
BORIS JOHNSON trounced Jeremy Corbyn last night in their final live television clash of the battle to be Britain’s next prime...

That's strange I keep wondering how i missed this debate, the one I saw wasn't like that at all, there was a mumbling blond buffoon who ended every sentence with "Let's get Brexit done" despite being told that is years away.

If you had to assess which of them has a huge brain on the basis of their coherence, it would have been a no contest. Corbyn spoke without breaking off to prepared phrases even in the middle of what should have been sentences.

 

[Danidl]

If you had to assess which of them has a huge brain on the basis of their coherence, it would have been a no contest. Corbyn spoke without breaking off to prepared phrases even in the middle of what should have been sentences.

I thought JC was coherent and presented structured arguments for every position he adopted. If anything his fault was almost boredom... On the lines ,I have made these points repeatedly before, why can you fail to grasp them,they are obvious.... . Where he was weak was not in confronting untruths,and deliberate? Simplications.

 

[oldgroaner]

I thought JC was coherent and presented structured arguments for every position he adopted. If anything his fault was almost boredom... On the lines ,I have made these points repeatedly before, why can you fail to grasp them,they are obvious.... . Where he was weak was not in confronting untruths,and deliberate? Simplications.

The problem is that it is difficult to counter lies and deceit with rational truth

 

[oyster]

The problem is that it is difficult to counter lies and deceit with rational truth

The difficulty should be seen to be that of having someone who cannot remain calm and controlled in charge.

If, or perhaps, when a crisis develops, would you choose someone who can maintain rational thought or an idiot who keeps reverting to stock phrases and missing the point?

 

[50Hertz]

Boris Johnson reveals plan to bring back pounds and ounces
NOT SATIRE

Toss up between dark blue passports and Tom Brown's School Days...

Death Penalty: No

Dark Blue Passports: Why?

Selling goods in pounds and ounces: Too complicated. I like base 10

Corporal punishment in schools: Most definitely.

Traditional incandescent light bulbs: Great idea, they provide a very pleasant light.

Smoking in pubs & restaurants: Filthy

pre-decima currency: Again too complicated, it’s not base 10

 

[50Hertz]

In the Telegraph this morning
"
Who won the BBC debate? Boris Johnson's best performance saw off Jeremy Corbyn and his Santa-sack of freebies
And in the Expresss
Storming Boris Johnson trounces Corbyn in final showdown before Britons head to the polls
BORIS JOHNSON trounced Jeremy Corbyn last night in their final live television clash of the battle to be Britain’s next prime...

That's strange I keep wondering how i missed this debate, the one I saw wasn't like that at all, there was a mumbling blond buffoon who ended every sentence with "Let's get Brexit done" despite being told that is years away.

I missed the debate. Did Johnson say “oven ready”? Just curious.

 

[oldgroaner]

Thought I'd take a look at Reddit. found this.
https://www.reddit.com/r/worldpolitics/comments/dkzlfc "Based on the content of these documents, we can now imagine what a terrible price Britain will have to pay to conclude a free trade agreement with the United States - from betraying partners and the interests of own citizens to betraying her national policies. "

 

[oyster]

Boris Johnson reveals plan to bring back pounds and ounces
NOT SATIRE

Toss up between dark blue passports and Tom Brown's School Days...

If he brings back non-metric "old" measures, let us remember that there are at least three different stones: wool (15lb), wool (24lb) and the one we most often think of for human weights (14lb). The system was absolutely rife with inconsistencies that came about for numerous reasons.

And remember to bring back the peck between bushel and gallon. And make sure you bring back the right gallon - a proper Imperial gallon not one of those Johnny come lately US gallons.

Perhaps we should ask him whether he knows even the basics of the pre-metric measuring systems before he introduces them? I would not be at all surprised if he were unable to let us know how many ounces in a pound and a pint.

 

[50Hertz]

The problem is that it is difficult to counter lies and deceit with rational truth

Almost. The problem is that a majority of people no longer care about the lies. I didn‘t see the debate, but if Corbyn had countered Johnson with rational truth, people wouldn’t care, they would still back Johnson. The truth no longer matters to people.

I think the campaigners have tapped into the idea that if you lie about everything all the time, people can select which lies they want to believe and then assemble a custom, lie based narrative which suits their individual circumstances. It’s genius, it’s working and it’s going to see Boris Johnson returned to number 10.

 

[50Hertz]

Go vote Tory.

We know what you are

Blimey, you remained angry deep into the night.

 

[Fingers]

 

[50Hertz]

View attachment 33270

They will privatise more of the NHS. They say they won’t and then they secretly negotiate to do the opposite. They say there won’t be a border in the Irish Sea and their own treasury report says the opposite. You simply select the lies you would like to hear from the selection of lies available. It’s 21st century politics. You need to get up to speed with it all.

 

[oldgroaner]

Almost. The problem is that a majority of people no longer care about the lies. I didn‘t see the debate, but if Corbyn had countered Johnson with rational truth, people wouldn’t care, they would still back Johnson. The truth no longer matters to people.

I think the campaigners have tapped into the idea that if you lie about everything all the time, people can select which lies they want to believe and then assemble a custom, lie based narrative which suits their individual circumstances. It’s genius, it’s working and it’s going to see Boris Johnson returned to number 10.

And it's a recipe for disaster.
And it is all going very much as predicted.

 

[oldgroaner]

This is amusing: the Telegraph ran a story quoting the same documents Corbyn was waving back in July!
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2019/07/10/lack-progress-us-uk-trade-talks-laid-bare-cache-leaked-documents/

You couldn't make up the lies the Torys will use to blacken Corbyn's name

 

[vfr400]

Back in the '80s, there was a current affairs programme called "Nationwide" on the TV (BBC) after the 18:00 news. They featured an article about UFOs seen over Warminster every Wednesday night. Many people had seen and reported them, so the BBC sent a camera crew down. Sure enough, the UFOs turned up and they got plenty of good footage, which they showed on TV. They brought in a panel of UFO experts, who explained what type of UFOs they were, and they postulated why they were visiting Warminster every Wednesday. This was a genuine article, not April 1st.

The next day, a couple of young lads rang up the BBC and explained that they were not UFOs, but Chinese lanterns that they made themselves and were sending over Warminster for a laugh, and they hadn't expected to see the results of their work on TV. The BBC sent the camera crew to film them making a lantern andsending it over Warminster again.

The next night, they invited the panel of UFO experts back onto the programme along with the two lads, and they showed footage of the previous filmed UFOs and the now confirmed Chinese lantern. AFAICS, everything was identical - the motion, brightness, behaviour etc.

When they asked the UFO experts for their comments, I was surprised when they all said that the second footage was completely different to the first, and that the first showed real UFOs and the second was clearly a Chinese lantern. At first, I thought that they were just trying to save face or make a story for the BBC, but after a while, it was clear that they truly believed that the first footage showed real UFOs, and they started to get quite angry when anybody suggested otherwise.

The moral of this story is that what the UFO experts went through was a characteristic of human behaviour. They spent so much time reinforcing their belief in UFOs with each that they actually believed that they were real. Like some religious zealots, they had seen the light, and nobody was going to convince them otherwise. For everybody not in their group, that reality was just eccentric behaviour.

Christmas is coming no matter how much the turkeys have psyched each other up to believe that it isn't.

 

[jonathan.agnew]

Back in the '80s, there was a current affairs programme called "Nationwide" on the TV (BBC) after the 18:00 news. They featured an article about UFOs seen over Warminster every Wednesday night. Many people had seen and reported them, so the BBC sent a camera crew down. Sure enough, the UFOs turned up and they got plenty of good footage, which they showed on TV. They brought in a panel of UFO experts, who explained what type of UFOs they were, and they postulated why they were visiting Warminster every Wednesday. This was a genuine article, not April 1st.

The next day, a couple of young lads rang up the BBC and explained that they were not UFOs, but Chinese lanterns that they made themselves and were sending over Warminster for a laugh, and they hadn't expected to see the results of their work on TV. The BBC sent the camera crew to film them making a lantern andsending it over Warminster again.

The next night, they invited the panel of UFO experts back onto the programme along with the two lads, and they showed footage of the previous filmed UFOs and the now confirmed Chinese lantern. AFAICS, everything was identical - the motion, brightness, behaviour etc.

When they asked the UFO experts for their comments, I was surprised when they all said that the second footage was completely different to the first, and that the first showed real UFOs and the second was clearly a Chinese lantern. At first, I thought that they were just trying to save face or make a story for the BBC, but after a while, it was clear that they truly believed that the first footage showed real UFOs, and they started to get quite angry when anybody suggested otherwise.

The moral of this story is that what the UFO experts went through was a characteristic of human behaviour. They spent so much time reinforcing their belief in UFOs with each that they actually believed that they were real. Like some religious zealots, they had seen the light, and nobody was going to convince them otherwise. For everybody not in their group, that reality was just eccentric behaviour.

Christmas is coming no matter how much the turkeys have psyched each other up to believe that it isn't.

That, even by leave standards, is incoherent, steamy horsemanure. I gather you're a turkey that believes in ufo's. That would explain the leave vote and the basting you're in for.

 

[jonathan.agnew]

Almost. The problem is that a majority of people no longer care about the lies. I didn‘t see the debate, but if Corbyn had countered Johnson with rational truth, people wouldn’t care, they would still back Johnson. The truth no longer matters to people.

I think the campaigners have tapped into the idea that if you lie about everything all the time, people can select which lies they want to believe and then assemble a custom, lie based narrative which suits their individual circumstances. It’s genius, it’s working and it’s going to see Boris Johnson returned to number 10.

You're telling us about your moral frame of reference. You make a mistake to project that into everyone else and assume they are like you. This is a bit like the magical thinking children engage in. You and your fellow leave voters are welcome to close your eyes and pretend that makes the world go away. It doesnt. Boris winning doesnt solve anything.

 

[Danidl]

Almost. The problem is that a majority of people no longer care about the lies. I didn‘t see the debate, but if Corbyn had countered Johnson with rational truth, people wouldn’t care, they would still back Johnson. The truth no longer matters to people.

I think the campaigners have tapped into the idea that if you lie about everything all the time, people can select which lies they want to believe and then assemble a custom, lie based narrative which suits their individual circumstances. It’s genius, it’s working and it’s going to see Boris Johnson returned to number 10.

And it may well work with the UK electorate...I would not know., But it will not wash with trade negotiations or other European countries