Brexit, for once some facts.

[daveboy]

That’s what happens when you allow a Frenchman to operate a complex and highly technical piece of machinery. The Brits never crashed one.

This is not far out.. I watched a TV program last week and the pilot had over filled the fuel tanks so that when the rubber from the tyre hit them the shockwave had nowhere to go. He also cut power to engine that was not on fire and plane was over weight.

 

[flecc]

That’s what happens when you allow a Frenchman to operate a complex and highly technical piece of machinery. The Brits never crashed one.

Rubbish. That is what happens when an American cowboy welder with Continental Airlines doesn't do his job well and the debris he caused wrecked that Concorde on takeoff.

He was found criminally liable and he and his company were heavily penalised.

It was only luck that one of ours never suffered the same end, since Concorde’s tyres frequently exploded during its 27 year history, with flying debris piercing the fuel tank at least once before. The guilt for not doing anything about that was both French and British.
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[50Hertz]

..nor designed one!

it’s at least 75% British.

 

[oldgroaner]

More likely to provide cheap travel to regions of our new Empire.

That would make more sense.

That’s what happens when you allow a Frenchman to operate a complex and highly technical piece of machinery. The Brits never crashed one.

We've been though this before; the real name for the Concord was originally Super Caravelle

 

[oldgroaner]

it’s at least 75% British.

Blimey that's more than Boris Johnson is!

 

[daveboy]

Rubbish. That is what happens when an American cowboy welder with Continental Airlines doesn't do his job well and the debris he caused wrecked that Concorde on takeoff.

He was found criminally liable and he and his company were heavily penalised.

It was only luck that one of ours never suffered the same end, since Concorde’s tyres frequently exploded during its 27 year history, with flying debris piercing the fuel tank at least once before. The guilt for not doing anything about that was both French and British.
.

Did you watch the TV program Flecc… The tanks should never have been filled above 80% to allow for expansion... The Captain overruled the fuel warnings and had to sign it off to do so. You are right a about a piece of metal from a USA airline being left on the runway.
Edit. The TV program argued that because the rubber tyre was not sharp, the tank would not have burst if the shockwave had somewhere to go(80% full)

 

[oldgroaner]

fingers you DO have a short attention span!.

Too kind!

 

[50Hertz]

Rubbish. That is what happens when an American cowboy welder with Continental Airlines doesn't do his job well and the debris he caused wrecked that Concorde on takeoff.

He was found criminally liable and he and his company were heavily penalised.

It was only luck that one of ours never suffered the same end, since Concorde’s tyres frequently exploded during its 27 year history, with flying debris piercing the fuel tank at least once before. The guilt for not doing anything about that was both French and British.
.

With a British captain, it wouldn’t have been 6 tonnes overweight with the C of G dangerously near to the aft limit. That made a big difference to the handling of the aircraft trying to claw its way into the air with low airspeed.

Daveboy has covered the overfill issues.

 

[flecc]

Did you watch the TV program Flecc… The tanks should never have been filled above 80% to allow for expansion... The Captain overruled the fuel warnings and had to sign it off to do so. You are right a about a piece of metal from a USA airline being left on the runway.

I'd seen it previously. There is no such thing as an honest documentary about Concorde from a British program maker. From the outset there's been the pretence that this French design, originally called the Super Caravelle was really British, even to the fact that the BBC allowed it to be voted Britains greatest design ever. Denial of the truth is the norm here on this subject, with numerous falsehoods routinely used to blame the French for any downside to it.

I've covered this subject comprehensively in this forum and don't intend to repeat it all. Suffice it to say that the British assistant to the French chief designer never designed a successful airplane in his life, nor ever any jet aeroplane.

What the French are to blame for is creating the design and advancing the joint upsizing that we agreed to share in. Concorde should never have been built since it was clearly an operational, economic and environmental failure from the outset.
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[daveboy]

I'd seen it previously.
.

Are you sure ? It was advertised as a new documentary.

Now a new Channel 5 documentary, Inside The Cockpit tells the incredible ... Air France Flight 4590 from Paris to New York ran into problems ...

 

[flecc]

With a British captain, it wouldn’t have been 6 tonnes overweight with the C of G dangerously near to the aft limit. That made a big difference to the handling of the aircraft trying to claw its way into the air with low airspeed.

Daveboy has covered the overfill issues.

You don't know that, it's only a guess on your part. You have no idea of how often a British captain will have similarly bent the rules, it happens.

What happened was only one of the burst tyre events coinciding with a piece of aircraft debris from a previous takeoff causing one of the split tank events, coinciding with a slight overload. It could have happened on any of those burst tyre events.

Any one component of those coincidences missing and it wouldn't have happened, another way of saying it could have happened at any time to any Concorde.
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[jonathan.agnew]

We'd be better off bringing Concorde back.

It was our design and technology in the first place.

I think we should bring Henry VIII back. He was an obsessive, syphilitic, self indulgent philanderer (and I think it's high time boris has some proper competition instead of aenemics like corbyn)

 

[flecc]

Are you sure ? It was advertised as a new documentary.

Now a new Channel 5 documentary, Inside The Cockpit tells the incredible ... Air France Flight 4590 from Paris to New York ran into problems ...

New to Channel 5. The BBC made and broadcast virtually the same program previously from what I saw from dipping in, and all the same content had been previously broadcast a number of times on different channels. And the French court case details and evidence have always been available.

The truth is that anti French sentiments and Continental's anger at the French court's findings and penalties have meant they never let the subject go.
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[50Hertz]

You don't know that, it's only a guess on your part. You have no idea of how often a British captain will have similarly bent the rules, it happens.

EASA devolve regulation to the National Authority, in our case the CAA. I don’t know what the French do, but if a U.K. captain had over fuelled the aircraft, it would be picked up in the Tech Log. Plus there is no way to disguise it. The mass of fuel in the tanks is stored in the flight data system and downloaded and checked during service intervals. If the Tech Log had been falsified, the the download would give it away, compounding the issues for the captain.
Overfilling, in the U.K. would certainly generate an MOR (Mandatory Occurrence Report) and trigger an investigation. The French National Authority may not have such a system, in which case overfilling could have become an unofficial common practice. MORs are designed to stop these practices developing.

 

[Woosh]

Bojo + Leo:
"They agreed that they could see a pathway to a possible deal."
this line in their joint statement sent the Pound up 1% this afternoon and it's still rising.

 

[flecc]

The French National Authority may not have such a system,

May not have. As I said, guesswork.
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[flecc]

With a British captain, it wouldn’t have been 6 tonnes overweight with the C of G dangerously near to the aft limit. That made a big difference to the handling of the aircraft trying to claw its way into the air with low airspeed.

Daveboy has covered the overfill issues.

Extracts from the official report:

" Repeating the calculations for the flight preparation showed that the estimated weight of the aircraft on departure was in accordance with operational limits.

Taking into account the fuel not consumed during taxiing, the aircraft’s takeoff weight in fact exceeded the maximum weight by about one ton. Any effect on takeoff performance from this excess weight was negligible. "
.

 

[50Hertz]

May not have. As I said, guesswork.
.

The point is, a U.K. captain would not have attempted to take off with that level of fuel on board. There is no need to fill the tanks that much, it’s pointless. A U.K. captain would have known that he was exceeding max all up weight and would have faced an investigation for doing so. Better to either face a bit of embarrassment and have some taken out rather than bust the weight limit on take off.

 

[50Hertz]

Extracts from the official report:

" Repeating the calculations for the flight preparation showed that the estimated weight of the aircraft on departure was in accordance with operational limits.

Taking into account the fuel not consumed during taxiing, the aircraft’s takeoff weight in fact exceeded the maximum weight by about one ton. Any effect on takeoff performance from this excess weight was negligible. "
.

I’ve seen a report stating he was 6 tonnes over with a C of G almost out of limit aft. That compounded by the fire and power loss made it more difficult to handle the aircraft than it should have been.

Due to the U.K. systems, I’d say the probability of that incident occurring on a U.K. Concorde would be less. The C of G would have been better placed for handling.

 

[daveboy]

Extracts from the official report:

" Repeating the calculations for the flight preparation showed that the estimated weight of the aircraft on departure was in accordance with operational limits.

Taking into account the fuel not consumed during taxiing, the aircraft’s takeoff weight in fact exceeded the maximum weight by about one ton. Any effect on takeoff performance from this excess weight was negligible. "
.

All this was covered in the TV program. The estimated weight of the luggage did not take into account that most of the passengers were on the trip of a lifetime followed by a cruise. The TV program said the luggage weight could have been double the Captains estimate.