Brexit, for once some facts.

[50Hertz]

And the free racism. No matter how much as leavers protest their vote was not about racism, the immigrants don't see it that way. The very obvious upset and sense of rejection those here already felt about the vote, and that very large numbers who've already left for home have made that clear.

It's made the UK a much less desirable destination for many, especially those who already had relatives or friends here or leaving.
.

I don’t detect people leaving. I regularly cycle with a group made up of many working immigrants with a good career here in the U.K. They love it, feel part of the make up of the country and have absolutely no intention of leaving.

Mine might only be a small sample, maybe a dozen people, but the above is the impression I get.

 

[flecc]

I don’t detect people leaving. I regularly cycle with a group made up of many working immigrants with a good career here in the U.K. They love it, feel part of the make up of the country and have absolutely no intention of leaving.

Mine might only be a small sample, maybe a dozen people, but the above is the impression I get.

As the NHS has made clear, you definitely have the wrong impression. They've lost very large numbers of ex EU doctors and nurses, and NHS recruitment from the EU dropped to almost zero by the end of the referendum year. These created a huge problem which the government are trying to cope with by recruiting from outside, including India, The Ukraine and Russia. I can hardly understand how you've missed this since it was already in the news for years. Maybe it's once again the evil dominance of Brexit politics swamping far more important news.

And every week for ages there's been special buses leaving Victoria coach station, returning Polish, Romanian and other Eastern European workers to take advantage of the greatly improved employment opportunities and wages back home.

The clearly expressed message from many of them is that they now feel unwelcome here since the referendum, and that is one of the reasons why I am so angry about the Leave vote.
.

 

[oldgroaner]

50 said in his first preamble he thought it was complete BS..
Read the posts OG.

I did apologise read my post

 

[Zlatan]

Wether we do leave or not the voting system within EU needs sorting. Yes, accepted any large democracy is going to have anomolies within its election of representatives but there are some within EU which are plain wrong.
The population of EU (including us is around 513 million. It has 751 MEPs. So roughly each MEP is represrnting around 684,000 people.
Now examine Croatia in the 2014 EU election. It had a population of 4.28 million and had a 25% turnout. It has 11 MEPs,so roughly each one was on average voted to Brussels with 97,000 votes. Those MEPs get a voting power of the 684,000.(They have 7 times more voting power than they should)
What that also means is that some MEP, s must have voting power beneath the number sending them. there.
Its all actually quite a shambles.

 

[Zlatan]

I did apologise read my post

Why should we start reading your posts. You never read ours.
I hope your apology was better than one I got from you. Your probable one.

 

[50Hertz]

Wether we do leave or not the voting system within EU needs sorting. Yes, accepted any large democracy is going to have anomolies within its election of representatives but there are some within EU which are plain wrong.
The population of EU (including us is around 513 million. It has 751 MEPs. So roughly each MEP is represrnting around 684,000 people.
Now examine Croatia in the 2014 EU election. It had a population of 4.28 million and had a 25% turnout. It has 11 MEPs,so roughly each one was on average voted to Brussels with 97,000 votes. Those MEPs get a voting power of the 684,000.(They have 7 times more voting power than they should)
What that also means is that some MEP, s must have voting power beneath the number sending them. there.
Its all actually quite a shambles.

Good post. Good points.

 

[50Hertz]

Why should we start reading your posts. You never read ours.
I hope your apology was better than one I got from you. Your probable one.

OG did offer a very nice apology, which I accepted, and I then granted him my forgiveness. ;-)

 

[Zlatan]

OG did offer a very nice apology, which I accepted, and I then granted him my forgiveness. ;-)

He must like you, mine was a qualified, probable, I might sort of apology. The sort wife gives you when she, s damaged car but it was your fault anyway..
On the MEPs... Seems an odd basis to start from when by population Croatia represents 0.83% of EU but has 1.46% of MEPs. That is relatively a massive error.??? Add in Croatia's poor turn outs and it compounds the issue. You, d guess the number of MEPs each country sends is directly proportional to that countries population in relation to EU as a whole. Perhaps Flecc or Danidl might know the algorithm used to determine the number of MEPs from each country???
Or the type of apology I, ve just had from wife, for putting petrol in diesel car... "Well I, m sorry but you didnt tell me it was diesel did you".
"No, dear, not today. I, m sorry, I, ll remember next time".
"I preferred petrol anyway"
"Yes dear."
You get the gist. £300 for recovery, pumping tank out, flushng system and checking.
Amazingly, garage told wife it needed a diagnostic check. FFS, its got petrol in tank Sherlock.

 

[50Hertz]

As the NHS has made clear, you definitely have the wrong impression. They've lost very large numbers of ex EU doctors and nurses, and NHS recruitment from the EU dropped to almost zero by the end of the referendum year. These created a huge problem which the government are trying to cope with by recruiting from outside, including India, The Ukraine and Russia. I can hardly understand how you've missed this since it was already in the news for years. Maybe it's once again the evil dominance of Brexit politics swamping far more important news.

And every week for ages there's been special buses leaving Victoria coach station, returning Polish, Romanian and other Eastern European workers to take advantage of the greatly improved employment opportunities and wages back home.

The clearly expressed message from many of them is that they now feel unwelcome here since the referendum, and that is one of the reasons why I am so angry about the Leave vote.
.

Maybe some numbers on someone’s spreadsheet somewhere back up what you are saying. I’m just saying what I’ve experienced first hand through contact with a small number of working immigrants. They are quite happy, and have no plans to leave.

I think this side topic was kicked off by someone suggesting that without a power of veto, the U.K. could be compelled to accept high volume unskilled immigrants not possessing the talents we need or can use. I think these people fall into a different category to say Doctors, Nurses Engineers etc, the likes of who we very much do need. A mass uncontrollable influx of people not possessing the skills we need could cause a big problem.

 

[flecc]

I think this side topic was kicked off by someone suggesting that without a power of veto, the U.K. could be compelled to accept high volume unskilled immigrants not possessing the talents we need or can use. I think these people fall into a different category to say Doctors, Nurses Engineers etc, the likes of who we very much do need. A mass uncontrollable influx of people not possessing the skills we need could cause a big problem.

I think the suggestion was too sweeping an assumption. I don't see this as a problem since a high proportion of the Syrian refugees, who are the bulk, are highly skilled in a whole range of employments.
.

 

[50Hertz]

I think the suggestion was too sweeping an assumption. I don't see this as a problem since a high proportion of the Syrian refugees, who are the bulk, are highly skilled in a whole range of employments.
.

I don’t know about the skills Syrian refugees posses. For example, out of 100 Syrians, I wouldn’t have any idea how many would have skills which the U.K. need. Of course, not all immigrants come from Syria.

 

[Danidl]

Wether we do leave or not the voting system within EU needs sorting. Yes, accepted any large democracy is going to have anomolies within its election of representatives but there are some within EU which are plain wrong.
The population of EU (including us is around 513 million. It has 751 MEPs. So roughly each MEP is represrnting around 684,000 people.
Now examine Croatia in the 2014 EU election. It had a population of 4.28 million and had a 25% turnout. It has 11 MEPs,so roughly each one was on average voted to Brussels with 97,000 votes. Those MEPs get a voting power of the 684,000.(They have 7 times more voting power than they should)
What that also means is that some MEP, s must have voting power beneath the number sending them. there.
Its all actually quite a shambles.

We have gone over that ground before. It is equal opportunity not equal outcome. It is the freely expressed democratic wish of those people who did not vote not to vote.. unless you have information to the contrary.

 

[Woosh]

Wether we do leave or not the voting system within EU needs sorting. Yes, accepted any large democracy is going to have anomolies within its election of representatives but there are some within EU which are plain wrong.
The population of EU (including us is around 513 million. It has 751 MEPs. So roughly each MEP is represrnting around 684,000 people.
Now examine Croatia in the 2014 EU election. It had a population of 4.28 million and had a 25% turnout. It has 11 MEPs,so roughly each one was on average voted to Brussels with 97,000 votes. Those MEPs get a voting power of the 684,000.(They have 7 times more voting power than they should)
What that also means is that some MEP, s must have voting power beneath the number sending them. there.
Its all actually quite a shambles.

your comparison is not totally fair. 11 MEPs for 4.3 millions Croatians works out one MEP per 390,000 Croatians.
UK has 73 MEPs, that works out one MEP per 890,000 Britishers.
The system is supposed to recognise that large countries have more block vote influence, so there is an 'influence factor' that gets taken into account.

Member state	Population millions	MEPs	Inhabitants per MEP	Influence
Austria	8.27	17	486,235	1.71
Belgium	10.51	22	477,773	1.74
Bulgaria	7.72	17	454,059	1.83
Cyprus	0.77	6	127,667	6.52
Czech Republic	10.25	22	465,955	1.79
Denmark	5.43	13	417,538	1.99
Estonia	1.34	6	224,000	3.72
Finland	5.26	13	404,308	2.06
France	62.89	72	873,417	0.95
Germany	82.43	99	832,606	1.00
Greece	11.13	22	505,682	1.65
Hungary	10.08	22	458,045	1.82
Ireland	4.21	12	350,750	2.37
Italy	58.75	72	816,000	1.02
Latvia	2.3	8	286,875	2.90
Lithuania	3.4	12	283,583	2.94
Luxembourg	0.46	6	76,667	10.86
Malta	0.4	5	80,800	10.30
Netherlands	16.33	25	653,360	1.27
Poland	38.16	50	763,140	1.09
Portugal	10.57	22	480,455	1.73
Romania	21.61	33	654,848	1.27
Slovakia	5.39	13	414,538	2.01
Slovenia	2	7	286,143	2.91
Spain	43.76	50	875,160	0.95
Sweden	10	20	501,344	1.66
United Kingdom	60.64	72	839,194	0.99

 

[oldgroaner]

For you.

You are literally arguing with yourself.

[IMG alt="oldgroaner"]https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/data/avatars/m/15/15142.jpg?1464806412[/IMG]
oldgroaner
Esteemed Pedelecer


Today at 1:10 PM

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• #64,298

There's a little reason called economics at work that make it difficult, is that what you find funny?
literally we could have left the Monday following the referendum and the EU couldn't prevent it, article 50 procedure or no.
Why do you think we didn't? did they stop us?



You even used smilies to argue with yourself and everything.

Maybe my theory that no one can be this stupid is true and you are just trolling us with multiple accounts.

It’s the only thing that can make sense using Occam’s razor

I was actually trying to reply to this post

daveboy said:
Yes......Should be easy

Why do you think it isn't?
Do you really imagine the difficulties are due to some EU politicians?

• 

Reactions:daveboy
And in doing it on my phone forgot the Quotes when I did an edit;
Ah well, it amused some folk!

 

[Zlatan]

We have gone over that ground before. It is equal opportunity not equal outcome. It is the freely expressed democratic wish of those people who did not vote not to vote.. unless you have information to the contrary.

That has nothing to do with point I made re unbalanced representation before turn out is even considered. (If e tire Croatian population voted their MEP's would still have higher voting power than number of people represented.
On pure numbers alone Croatia should have 7 MEPs. They have 11.
It might have been helpful had you actually tried to answer the question.
How are the number of MEPs calculated for individial countries.?

 

[oldgroaner]

Why should we start reading your posts. You never read ours.
I hope your apology was better than one I got from you. Your probable one.

Your problem isn't that I don't read your posts, but unfortunately understand what you are saying.

 

[Woosh]

Bojo caves in:

• The UK government promised the highest civil court in Scotlandthat Boris Johnson would send a letter to the EU seeking an extension to article 50 as required by the Benn act.

 

[Zlatan]

your comparison is not totally fair. 11 MEPs for 4.3 millions Croatians works out one MEP per 390,000 Croatians.
UK has 73 MEPs, that works out one MEP per 890,000 Britishers.
The system is supposed to recognise that large countries have more block vote influence, so there is an 'influence factor' that gets taken into account.

Member state	Population millions	MEPs	Inhabitants per MEP	Influence
Austria	8.27	17	486,235	1.71
Belgium	10.51	22	477,773	1.74
Bulgaria	7.72	17	454,059	1.83
Cyprus	0.77	6	127,667	6.52
Czech Republic	10.25	22	465,955	1.79
Denmark	5.43	13	417,538	1.99
Estonia	1.34	6	224,000	3.72
Finland	5.26	13	404,308	2.06
France	62.89	72	873,417	0.95
Germany	82.43	99	832,606	1.00
Greece	11.13	22	505,682	1.65
Hungary	10.08	22	458,045	1.82
Ireland	4.21	12	350,750	2.37
Italy	58.75	72	816,000	1.02
Latvia	2.3	8	286,875	2.90
Lithuania	3.4	12	283,583	2.94
Luxembourg	0.46	6	76,667	10.86
Malta	0.4	5	80,800	10.30
Netherlands	16.33	25	653,360	1.27
Poland	38.16	50	763,140	1.09
Portugal	10.57	22	480,455	1.73
Romania	21.61	33	654,848	1.27
Slovakia	5.39	13	414,538	2.01
Slovenia	2	7	286,143	2.91
Spain	43.76	50	875,160	0.95
Sweden	10	20	501,344	1.66
United Kingdom	60.64	72	839,194	0.99

Good post Woosh. How are the actual numbers arrived at tho.
For example each Spanish MEP represents 875,000. Whereas each Cypriot one represents only 127,000.
First off all how is that decided? Who decides and why the massive disparity? Surely its not fair??? And those figures fail to take into account turn out figures, which seem to be worse with smaller countries who also seem to have the lowest people represented for each MEP already??? The disparity is approaching a factor of 4 even before poor turn outs are factored in???

 

[oldgroaner]

He must like you, mine was a qualified, probable, I might sort of apology. The sort wife gives you when she, s damaged car but it was your fault anyway..
On the MEPs... Seems an odd basis to start from when by population Croatia represents 0.83% of EU but has 1.46% of MEPs. That is relatively a massive error.??? Add in Croatia's poor turn outs and it compounds the issue. You, d guess the number of MEPs each country sends is directly proportional to that countries population in relation to EU as a whole. Perhaps Flecc or Danidl might know the algorithm used to determine the number of MEPs from each country???
Or the type of apology I, ve just had from wife, for putting petrol in diesel car... "Well I, m sorry but you didnt tell me it was diesel did you".
"No, dear, not today. I, m sorry, I, ll remember next time".
"I preferred petrol anyway"
"Yes dear."
You get the gist. £300 for recovery, pumping tank out, flushng system and checking.
Amazingly, garage told wife it needed a diagnostic check. FFS, its got petrol in tank Sherlock.

Whatever handle he goes by 50 Hertz is a far more worthy opponent, and has an admirable and colourful turn of phrase and wit.
We are old sparring partners and as far as I am concerned he's a hell of a lot more fun.
The man has style.
You're simply not in his league, sorry and all that.
Whatever else he may be when the Devil drives him, he doesn't try to bore the opposition into indifference.
As you just did with the rest of the post.

 

[Zlatan]

Your problem isn't that I don't read your posts, but unfortunately understand what you are saying.

That is completely senseless OG. Think you missed out a "don't" somewhere.

You are saying you do read my posts and you understand them. I think.
Thanks.