Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
- Start date
Just read through this Rowntree foundation report
https://ukandeu.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/Post-Brexit-priorities-for-low-income-voters-in-deprived-areas.pdf
Low income voters want many things to improve their lives, unfortunately , not only are many of them not the policy of any of the political parties vying for power, but most are no longer practical with the rise of online purchasing
Put simply public expectations exceed the probability of attainment.
Brexit is nothing more than a distraction from the low income worker's point of view.
There is nothing to be gained from it, nothing at all.
And this can only mean trouble ahead.
https://ukandeu.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/Post-Brexit-priorities-for-low-income-voters-in-deprived-areas.pdf
Low income voters want many things to improve their lives, unfortunately , not only are many of them not the policy of any of the political parties vying for power, but most are no longer practical with the rise of online purchasing
Put simply public expectations exceed the probability of attainment.
Brexit is nothing more than a distraction from the low income worker's point of view.
There is nothing to be gained from it, nothing at all.
And this can only mean trouble ahead.
Last edited:
Whaley Bridge: Boris Johnson visits amid fears of dam collapse
PM tells residents that Toddbrook reservoir looks ‘dodgy but stable’
What an amazing coincidence we have a so-called PM who just happens to be a dam expert. (Rather than those damned experts...)
There are many things he could have said - empathise "must be awful having to leave your homes", reassure "all the forces are available to assist", appear prepared "we have already arranged feeding and shelter", accept (possible) past responsibility "we are ensuring that our oversight of large structures is adequate and whether anything could have avoided this happening", accept future responsibility "we have prepared a list of all dams and have already started an urgent re-inspection program". No, I'll never make the grade as a PM's off-the-cuff-comment writer, but they are in what I see as the right direction - so long as they have some sincerity and honesty to them.
As a further comment on his understanding of civil engineering, remember the channel bridge he wants to build?
PM tells residents that Toddbrook reservoir looks ‘dodgy but stable’
What an amazing coincidence we have a so-called PM who just happens to be a dam expert. (Rather than those damned experts...)
I agree.
There are many things he could have said - empathise "must be awful having to leave your homes", reassure "all the forces are available to assist", appear prepared "we have already arranged feeding and shelter", accept (possible) past responsibility "we are ensuring that our oversight of large structures is adequate and whether anything could have avoided this happening", accept future responsibility "we have prepared a list of all dams and have already started an urgent re-inspection program". No, I'll never make the grade as a PM's off-the-cuff-comment writer, but they are in what I see as the right direction - so long as they have some sincerity and honesty to them.
As a further comment on his understanding of civil engineering, remember the channel bridge he wants to build?
Last edited:
People did notice, though. At least some - like you OG.
Our Home Secretary has some way to understand what she is saying:
The new home secretary, Priti Patel, has said she wants criminals to "literally feel terror" at the thought of breaking the law.
Many of us (all of us, I'd guess) want the police to be far, far better than they are. But the most headlined criminal in the past few days was a tory party candidate - Christopher Davies. He was caught, found guilty, and then re-bloody-selected (or was it re-bloody-confirmed?) as their candidate. That really does make other MPs filling and potentially fiddling their expenses claims feel terror, doesn't it?
It also seems to me that it is simply not possible to ensure that the guilty feel terror while the innocent feel safe and reassured. A government imposing a reign of terror has historical precedent - she might want to check up eighteenth century France. It was only those who were an impediment who were executed.
I have long believed that the best approach to crime requires increased likelihood of being caught rather than severity of sentence.
How about feeling terror at breaking the ministerial code?
The new home secretary, Priti Patel, has said she wants criminals to "literally feel terror" at the thought of breaking the law.
Many of us (all of us, I'd guess) want the police to be far, far better than they are. But the most headlined criminal in the past few days was a tory party candidate - Christopher Davies. He was caught, found guilty, and then re-bloody-selected (or was it re-bloody-confirmed?) as their candidate. That really does make other MPs filling and potentially fiddling their expenses claims feel terror, doesn't it?
It also seems to me that it is simply not possible to ensure that the guilty feel terror while the innocent feel safe and reassured. A government imposing a reign of terror has historical precedent - she might want to check up eighteenth century France. It was only those who were an impediment who were executed.
I have long believed that the best approach to crime requires increased likelihood of being caught rather than severity of sentence.
How about feeling terror at breaking the ministerial code?
of for using psy ops warfare techniques to skew the electoral process on behalf of Foreign states or lobby groups using dark money?
Prime Minister Boris Johnson visited on Friday and promised a "major rebuild" of the dam.
Oh, so not a minor rebuild? Some expanding foam and slap on bit of mortar not quite enough, I assume.
I guess it will be a "great big beautiful, beautiful dam".
If we were remaining, that would be largely paid for by an EU grant.
.
The following comes from todays Irish Times. David McWilliams is an economist banker person who has written a number of books and articles about Irelands woes....
" The Brexit saga has become a bizarre hostage situation: Boris Johnson is the kidnapper, the ransom is the backstop and Ireland is the hostage. Johnson is demanding the EU drop the backstop or he will shoot the hostage. We’ve been here before. Traditionally, the mantra has been: “We never negotiate with terrorists.” Let’s see what happens.
We all appreciate the notion that if we reward bad behaviour, a kidnapper will resort to intimidation again. The European Union has a choice to make. Ireland will survive this. It might well be convulsive but the economy is strong enough, just. And then what?
When you think about it, the “no-deal” option is only “no deal for now”. No deal is not a long-term option; ultimately, the United Kingdom will have to do a trade deal with the EU. The facts are pretty straightforward – 47 per cent of all UK exports go to the EU and, in turn, 52 per cent of all UK imports come from the EU. No matter how the hostage drama turns out, no matter what the political and economic fallout, the UK will be back at the table very soon. The more chaos at British ports, the shorter the self-imposed mercantile lockout.
Perhaps the EU should sit tight and play the long game? Once he shoots the hostage, all his negotiating power is gone – and the problem for the kidnapper is that he can only wound the hostage, not kill it. All that will remain is the much diminished UK with its economic reputation in tatters. The damage inflicted on its economy will be much worse than anything inflicted on us and, once the dust settles, investors will consider which location is more attractive – the one with open access to the EU or the one with trade barriers, tariffs and red tape that has locked itself out of a market with which it still does half its trade.
Which is more appealing for capital? The one with open access to trade and open access to the best talent in Europe that can live freely in Ireland? Or the one with barriers to entry and embargoes on talented people coming to live there, not to mention an ongoing political chasm where close to 50 per cent of the population feel betrayed and the other 50 per cent feel like they’ve achieved some phantom victory in a war that they started? And all this before you entertain the next Scottish independence referendum.
It’s pretty straightforward. There will be many twists on the road but the long game is glaringly obvious and it is the one on which we must focus. The present incarnation of the British cabinet has made its choice. We have to make ours."
There is a really off beat and clever article earlier in the week by Fintin O'Toole editor of the Irish Times,which describes a process by which SF can simply scupper the entire Brexit project while still maintaining their ideological abstentionist stance. As you are aware they hold 7 seats in NI but don't use them. This now holds the balance of power.
The scheme is one in which they have discussions with other..none DUP parties obviously,and then resign their seats in the current Parliament. All those seats would go non Brexit parties. Then the HoC can demand their extension or their rescind of Article 50 etc... When the inevitable GE occurs, SF of course , contest these seats in the next HoC.
" The Brexit saga has become a bizarre hostage situation: Boris Johnson is the kidnapper, the ransom is the backstop and Ireland is the hostage. Johnson is demanding the EU drop the backstop or he will shoot the hostage. We’ve been here before. Traditionally, the mantra has been: “We never negotiate with terrorists.” Let’s see what happens.
We all appreciate the notion that if we reward bad behaviour, a kidnapper will resort to intimidation again. The European Union has a choice to make. Ireland will survive this. It might well be convulsive but the economy is strong enough, just. And then what?
When you think about it, the “no-deal” option is only “no deal for now”. No deal is not a long-term option; ultimately, the United Kingdom will have to do a trade deal with the EU. The facts are pretty straightforward – 47 per cent of all UK exports go to the EU and, in turn, 52 per cent of all UK imports come from the EU. No matter how the hostage drama turns out, no matter what the political and economic fallout, the UK will be back at the table very soon. The more chaos at British ports, the shorter the self-imposed mercantile lockout.
Perhaps the EU should sit tight and play the long game? Once he shoots the hostage, all his negotiating power is gone – and the problem for the kidnapper is that he can only wound the hostage, not kill it. All that will remain is the much diminished UK with its economic reputation in tatters. The damage inflicted on its economy will be much worse than anything inflicted on us and, once the dust settles, investors will consider which location is more attractive – the one with open access to the EU or the one with trade barriers, tariffs and red tape that has locked itself out of a market with which it still does half its trade.
Which is more appealing for capital? The one with open access to trade and open access to the best talent in Europe that can live freely in Ireland? Or the one with barriers to entry and embargoes on talented people coming to live there, not to mention an ongoing political chasm where close to 50 per cent of the population feel betrayed and the other 50 per cent feel like they’ve achieved some phantom victory in a war that they started? And all this before you entertain the next Scottish independence referendum.
It’s pretty straightforward. There will be many twists on the road but the long game is glaringly obvious and it is the one on which we must focus. The present incarnation of the British cabinet has made its choice. We have to make ours."
There is a really off beat and clever article earlier in the week by Fintin O'Toole editor of the Irish Times,which describes a process by which SF can simply scupper the entire Brexit project while still maintaining their ideological abstentionist stance. As you are aware they hold 7 seats in NI but don't use them. This now holds the balance of power.
The scheme is one in which they have discussions with other..none DUP parties obviously,and then resign their seats in the current Parliament. All those seats would go non Brexit parties. Then the HoC can demand their extension or their rescind of Article 50 etc... When the inevitable GE occurs, SF of course , contest these seats in the next HoC.
that's wrong.
The ROI is the hostage alright, the backstop is the ransom alright, but it's the EU who is demanding the ransom.
It is within the EU's capability to time limit the backstop, because the EU should conclude a mutually beneficial FTA with the UK before the transition ends.
If for any reason the FTA is still not concluded by 2022 then there may be a case to continue with the backstop for a further 2 years, after that, both the UK and the EU must be released from its obligation.
Could you describe what would happen in 2024, after the backstop has been in force all that time, there is no real FTA, and the backstop gets torn up? I can't see an alternative to a hard border. But the effective border would move from Irish Sea to the land border. Thus NI would suddenly change from EU to UK rules. And the GFA... ?? Dead.
A time limited backstop is useless.. even BJ agreed with that. A Backstop with agreed technological targets and performance guarantees is not. Even the installation of an agreed external validation body ,similar to the Weapons subcommittee on the GFA,would be fine. Is it not about time that the UK government cane up with proposals which have a chance of being acceptable?.
Low income workers were the reason we left the EU. They have stitched them up for their project for fifty years.
They voted to leave because of this.
Which depends on the belief that low income workers would have done better with the UK not in the EU, and will in future do better by the UK leaving the EU. Neither is obvious, proved, or even explained to a reasonable level.
The UK government has continued not to do everything which has been within its pwer, and ability to afford, over the past forty years. Nor will they in the next forty years.
Last edited:
This Cleverly chap seems to be pretty much on the ball (as much as Grayling was!)
BBC Reality Check
@BBCRealityCheck
On @BBCr4today
MP @JamesCleverly said the UK had been "precluded for decades" from having free ports. The EU does permit free ports and the UK had them until 2012
BBC Reality Check
@BBCRealityCheck
On @BBCr4today
MP @JamesCleverly said the UK had been "precluded for decades" from having free ports. The EU does permit free ports and the UK had them until 2012
Yes, we are fully aware of that fact, and they were conned into thinking the leave campaign gave a damn about their situation
Instead of mouthing off as if you know what you are talking about read the Rowntree report I posted and try to understand why they are not going to benefit from Brexit.
It offers them worsening of their situation at an accelerating rate.
Brexit has been a means to divert them and rip them off at the same time.
We can say that wages went down with the influx of a million people in just 2 years. That much is obvious.
It worked out great for the middle class remainers who got a couple of grand taken off the quote for their new extension or £500 quid off a quote to fix their faulty plumbing. Not so goo for the small companies or sole traders. It also worked out perfectly for the likes of Amazon and Sports Direct etc who could offer terrible working conditions, minimum wage and zero hour contracts because supply far out stripped demand.
Of course you will say that's because of the lazy British.
The facts are not that simple wages went down for the lowest paid and those exploited by employment conditions changes.
Plumbers are not part of the lower wage group , they do very nicely, thank you, and are usually not themselves a strain on the economy
Any EU immigrants have to pass self sufficiency rules which are the responsibility of the Government to apply
And in fact the majority of immigrants are not from the EU and we have immediate control of their numbers
And what has the policy of the present Conservative Government turned out to be?
No reduction in the level of immigration.
Nothing is going to change about immigrants after Brexit, is it?
What is missing in this picture is the absence of Union power destroyed under restrictive Tory laws, nothing to do with the EU
Fingers, what has your point to do with Brexit?
Last edited:
There really isn't any need for you to keeping proving yourself an idiot, and where you let yourself down, is comedy is beyond your ability.
We know you are demoralised by the way Brexit is going.