You'd be better making evidence based comments rather than guessing, however you're not often right but you're wrong again.
Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
- Start date
Unfortuntely for you the leave campaign realised that to swing the referendum their way they had to major on immigration
No one is saying all leavers were swayed by that , but enough were to make the marginal win for leave
And if you don't understand that you lack in the judgement department
Perhaps this will deconfuse you
Stated reasons for voting leave
And here is a chart from that PDF
2IntroductionThis report summarises what is known about people’s stated reasons for votingLeave or Remain in the EU referendum. It begins by reviewingsurveys and opinion polls conducted around the time of the referendumin June of 2016. It proceeds to analyse data from Wave 3 ofthe Centre for Social Investigation’s longitudinal survey1on attitudes to Brexit.Previous surveys and opinion pollsThree separate surveys/opinion polls conducted around the time of the referendum asked Britons why they voted the way they did. These all found more-or-less the same thing, namely that the two main reasons people voted Leave were ‘sovereignty’ and ‘immigration’, and thatthe main reason people voted Remain was ‘the economy’.First, YouGov asked Leave and Remain voters to say which reason from a list of eight was the most important whendeciding how to vote in the referendum.2The most frequently selected reason among Leave voters––ticked by 45%––was, ‘to strike a better balance between Britain's right to act independently, and theappropriate level of co-operation with other countries’. The second most frequently selected reason among Leave voters––ticked by 26%––was, ‘to help us deal better with the issueof immigration’. Themost frequently cited reason among Remain voters––ticked by 40%––was, ‘to be better for jobs, investment and the economy generally’. Interestingly, the second most frequently selected reason among Remain voters was the same as the most frequently selectedreason among Leave voters (given above). Second, Lord Ashcroft asked Leave voters to rank four possible reasons for voting Leave, and asked Remain voters to rank four possible reasons for voting Remain.3The two most important reasons for voting Leave were: ‘The principle that decisions about the UK should be taken in the UK’, which was ranked first by 49% of Leave voters; and ‘A feeling that voting to leave the EU offered the best chance for the UK to regain control over immigration and its own borders’,which was ranked first by 33% of Leave voters. The two most important reasons for voting Remain were: ‘The risks of voting to leave looked too great when it came to things like the economy, jobs and prices’, which was ranked first by 43% of Remain voters;and ‘A vote to remain would still mean the UK having access to the EU single market while remaining outside of the Euro and the no-borders area of Europe, giving the UK the best of both worlds’, which was ranked first by 31% of Remain voters.Third, the British Election Study team asked their respondents an open-ended question just prior to the referendum, namely ‘What matters most to you when deciding how to vote in the EU referendum?’.4They coded the responses into 54 categories encompassing the key themesthat respondents mentioned. The most frequently cited reasons for voting Leave were ‘Sovereignty/EU bureaucracy’ and ‘Immigration’ (both mentioned by around 30% of those who said they intended to vote Leave). By far the most frequently cited reason for voting Remain was ‘Economy’ (mentioned by nearly 40% of those who said they intended to vote Remain). CSI’s dataon why people voted Leave or Remain in the EUreferendumApproximately 3,000 respondents were surveyed online by the polling company Kantar between 2ndof February and 8thof March, 2018. To begin with, we asked Leave voters5to rank four reasons for voting Leavein order of how important they were when deciding which way to vote in the referendum.6Figure 1 displays the distribution of Leave votersby rank for each of the four reasons. (Note that the wording of each reason is exactly as it appeared in the online survey.) The reason with the highest average rank is ‘to regain control over EU immigration’.
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The confusion comes from the Statement "I wanted the UK to regain control over EU immigration"
When we have always had that, there are strict conditions applied to EU nationals as regards how long they can stay without finding work ,and the leave adverts always majored on immigration from places like Turkey which is not in the EU anyway!
Much effort was expended to avoid giving the true picture of the conditions applied to EU nationals and major on the fear of masses of boat people coming in from Africa along with them.
The leave campaign conflated displaced migrants coming in here through EU countries with EU national immigrants enough to sway the voting totals
You are quite obviously peddling an urban myth.
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You do realise you just contradicted yourself (as usual) having just spoken on behalf on unmentioned areas with large Asian populations voted leave, and all the Asians I know in my community voted leave?
And now of course , how about some proof that OG and Flecc speak for entire communities?
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Perhaps you should have asked your chum for proof of his "all leavers are liars" post rather than give it your approval. Amazing isnt it OG who and what gets asked for proof and what and who doesnt. Dual standards again OG. ( another example for Danidl)
How on earth do you keep your output of sh! te so high. Your posts are getting longer. You must be on here 20 hours a day.
Just look at post 51924.Gray makes a comment, you reply with a tome for all 5 in here to read.
And BTW, I did not contradict myself (my comment was "all the Asians I know voted leave") You read what you want to read and reply to things not even mentioned. Its a type of bipolar disorder OG.Why did you even reply? Is it your turn on guard? Thinking about it you are always on duty.
You are completely obsessed with this place. It isnt healthy.
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Fascinating, first of all you clearly didn't understand the import of your own words, which were contradictory, and now you speak for "All 5 in here"?
I'm curious have you a link to that "all leavers are liars" post? I'm not disputing the words but would like to see if the context suggested this to be the case.
Oh Dear, there I go asking for proof again!
I responded to grays's comment to add further detail and indeed expand on it, perhaps for the benefit of the other 4 people on here?
As to why did I reply to you?
Well as you are the unofficial thought police representative on here I thought it best to offer some encouragement for your efforts.
You aint well. Good night OG. You should take a rest from here.
EU blasted over ‘democratic deficit’ as Brussels decides Juncker’s successor | World | News | Express.co.uk
THE European Union “suffers from a democratic deficit” and the EU’s way of electing its chiefs should be improved to strengthen the bloc, Poland’s Foreign Minister Jacek Czaputowicz has said.
www.express.co.uk
And
EU news: MEPs ready to give EU presidency to Ursula von der Leyen despite stitch-up | World | News | Express.co.uk
URSULA VON DER LEYEN has been crowned European Commission president as MEPs throw their support behind the German.
www.express.co.uk
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The collected misdeeds of BJ: Part n+1
Boris Johnson 'ignored expert advice' over £1bn mayoral vanity projects
No 10 frontrunner defied senior officials over doomed projects including Routemaster and garden bridge
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jul/16/boris-johnson-accused-of-costing-taxpayers-1bn-on-london-mayor-projects
Boris Johnson 'ignored expert advice' over £1bn mayoral vanity projects
No 10 frontrunner defied senior officials over doomed projects including Routemaster and garden bridge
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jul/16/boris-johnson-accused-of-costing-taxpayers-1bn-on-london-mayor-projects
And she won by SIX Votes! How big an undemocratic deficit can you get?You aint well. Good night OG. You should take a rest from here.
EU blasted over ‘democratic deficit’ as Brussels decides Juncker’s successor | World | News | Express.co.uk
THE European Union “suffers from a democratic deficit” and the EU’s way of electing its chiefs should be improved to strengthen the bloc, Poland’s Foreign Minister Jacek Czaputowicz has said.
And
EU news: MEPs ready to give EU presidency to Ursula von der Leyen despite stitch-up | World | News | Express.co.uk
URSULA VON DER LEYEN has been crowned European Commission president as MEPs throw their support behind the German.
And you are quoting the Express? that pinnacle of rectitude, honesty and open handed and fair and balanced comment?
And by the way I am as well as can be expected thank you.
And someone seems to have got their wires crossed with this story
Your link asserts this
"
THE European Union “suffers from a democratic deficit” and the EU’s way of electing its chiefs should be improved to strengthen the bloc, Poland’s Foreign Minister Jacek Czaputowicz has said.
And the link below says the opposite!
https://www.euractiv.com/section/future-eu/news/polish-fm-council-was-right-to-kill-federalist-spitzenkandidaten/
"
Do you expect Ms von der Leyen to be confirmed by the European Parliament tomorrow?
I hope that she will be confirmed, it was an almost unanimous decision of the European Council, one person has abstained. There is a clear consensus about this candidacy and I think that confirmation should be expected and Poland supports this candidacy.
Perhaps you are the one who needs to take a rest Zlatan?
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Brexit-hating Ursula 'the soloist' is approved as Juncker's successor
The German minister won the vote by 383 to 327 in Strasbourg, needing the support of 374 MEPs for an absolute majority.
Puts usual DM spin on it but read through comments. There is defintely a hardening going on towards EU, yep not 100% representitive but all sorts of people add comments. Many anti DM.
Yes reading comments on here might suggest a growing remain support. The more diverse nature of DM (online posters) suggests quite the reverse.
I didnt comment either way OG. You are answering voices in your head again. It was the Polish chap ranting about lack of democracy in EU. Not me. Have a word with him. (He actually said "democratic deficit".)
You seem rather more raving and long winded, if its possible.
Ursula von der Leyen elected European Commission president
Center-right nominee becomes first woman to lead EU.
www.politico.eu
This article says much the same. Read it before you comment this time OG.
BTW the democratic deficit mentioned has nothing at all to do with number of votes candidate attracted. Its talking about the system behind the voting, who is voting, who they are voting for and how they got there.
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Just more bothering to add their two pennorth as they think Brexit in danger.Brexit-hating Ursula 'the soloist' is approved as Juncker's successor
The German minister won the vote by 383 to 327 in Strasbourg, needing the support of 374 MEPs for an absolute majority.mol.im
Puts usual DM spin on it but read through comments. There is defintely a hardening going on towards EU, yep not 100% representitive but all sorts of people add comments. Many anti DM.
Yes reading comments on here might suggest a growing remain support. The more diverse nature of DM (online posters) suggests quite the reverse.
Actually it isn't
The voters don't matter any more neither do their opinions
Events are what matter now
Come off it "Democratic deficit in the EU" has long been one of your fancies, would you like me to dig out your appropriate posts?
You didn't need to comment, the hint was obvious
You really are losing it.. Arguing with me over a point made months ago. Why bother OG. https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1153716/eu-news-poland-european-commission-president-leader-jucker-jacek-czaputowicz
This chap certainly knows more than you. Send him your thoughts. Why tell me?
You could say he is wrong or provide evidence contrary to his thoughts, but no you have to have your little rant at me.
And, interestingly, you conveniently forget Flecc's little outburst about "all leavers are liars" but remember my mentioning EU democratic deficit from months ago. Dual standards again OG. Pathetic.
The shambles of Brexit diverts attention from the EU’s democratic deficit | Gary Younge
The EU has seemed stable in the face of Britain’s petulance. Yet across the continent, faith in its institutions is faltering, writes Gary Younge
www.theguardian.com
From the Guardian.
Suggesting there isnt a problem with EU's version of democracy really is burying your head in the sand. Ranting at posters because they have mentioned it before is simply shutting issue down. I wonder how many times you have said same things again... And again.. And again
Ad infinitum. Yet more dual standards.
Hardly a shining example of democracy.
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Zlatan, unlike the DM, I actually heard what she said..her English is very clear and precise. ..And what I posted earlier was a fair reflection on what she said. I have no hesitation in saying that that DM headline is a LIE..an untruth intended to decieve . She made the point That in order to ensure better future relationship with the UK, she would be prepared to champion an extension to facilitate a democratic result. This was was received with a mixed reception, .there were boos as well as agreement, so it is reasonable to assume that it actually cost her votes . So I might suggest there is a hardening in the EU to give the UK anything further than what has already been agreedBrexit-hating Ursula 'the soloist' is approved as Juncker's successor
The German minister won the vote by 383 to 327 in Strasbourg, needing the support of 374 MEPs for an absolute majority.
Puts usual DM spin on it but read through comments. There is defintely a hardening going on towards EU, yep not 100% representitive but all sorts of people add comments. Many anti DM.
Yes reading comments on here might suggest a growing remain support. The more diverse nature of DM (online posters) suggests quite the reverse.
Are you deliberately NOT reading my posts?You really are losing it.. Arguing with me over a point made months ago. Why bother OG. https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1153716/eu-news-poland-european-commission-president-leader-jucker-jacek-czaputowicz
This chap certainly knows more than you. Send him your thoughts. Why tell me?
You could say he is wrong or provide evidence contrary to his thoughts, but no you have to have your little rant at me.
And, interestingly, you conveniently forget Flecc's little outburst about "all leavers are liars" but remember my mentioning EU democratic deficit from months ago. Dual standards again OG. Pathetic.
The shambles of Brexit diverts attention from the EU’s democratic deficit | Gary Younge
The EU has seemed stable in the face of Britain’s petulance. Yet across the continent, faith in its institutions is faltering, writes Gary Younge
From the Guardian.
Suggesting there isnt a problem with EU's version of democracy really is burying your head in the sand. Ranting at posters because they have mentioned it before is simply shutting issue down. I wonder how many times you have said same things again... And again.. And again
Ad infinitum. Yet more dual standards.
View attachment 31284
Hardly a shining example of democracy.
The Express made a quote, but this completely contradicts it!
https://www.euractiv.com/section/future-eu/news/polish-fm-council-was-right-to-kill-federalist-spitzenkandidaten/
"
Do you expect Ms von der Leyen to be confirmed by the European Parliament tomorrow?
I hope that she will be confirmed, it was an almost unanimous decision of the European Council, one person has abstained. There is a clear consensus about this candidacy and I think that confirmation should be expected and Poland supports this candidacy.
Compared with here, where we are committed to Brexit because of a fiddled vote that is only popular with a small sector of the voting public in the power of a minority government?
..............................
Who do you think you are kidding?
Stop making excuses for your mistaken vote and trying to justify it
There is and was no justification possible, it was simply a mistake.
Admit it.
Brexit is a mistake at best, at worst deliberate sabotage.
Look at the scum who are pushing it before pointing fingers at politicians in the EU
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In the Express
"
We'd be £80BN better off!' Rees-Mogg dismantles Hammond's no deal Brexit forecasts
A NO DEAL Brexit will boost the UK economy by £80billion according to top Brexiteer Jacob Rees-Mogg, contradicting Treasury forecasts of a £90billion contraction.
Will you indeed?
What about the rest of us?
"
We'd be £80BN better off!' Rees-Mogg dismantles Hammond's no deal Brexit forecasts
A NO DEAL Brexit will boost the UK economy by £80billion according to top Brexiteer Jacob Rees-Mogg, contradicting Treasury forecasts of a £90billion contraction.
Will you indeed?
What about the rest of us?
brexiteers count on devaluation of the Pound, a WTO brexit causes the Pound to slide more than leaving with a deal, so much better for them.
As there are always winners and losers, the losers are those who are paid a fixed salary in Pounds, winners are the capitalists who can bet on the falling value of the GBP.
Claims like 'we are 80BN better off!' are understatements once the 'We' is understood to mean we = those who can bet against the Pound.
I have to pay suppliers every month in USD. The current rate is lowest since 2017 and not far off record low.
So a group of remainer's forecast is different to a leavers forecast, My flabber is gasted.