28 countries with different cultures and histories melding together as one and comparable to the set up of the United States of America, I agree, therein lies the shear folly.
Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
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With respect 'Iosw', perhaps you haven't been giving the reporting of the 'Brexit' issue in the media your full attention but there is no deal on the table now nor will there be a deal after Article 50 is invoked.
The EU doesn't need to do anything for the UK as it is not dependent on us for its survival. Our exports to the EU are not essential to them but we receive lots of things at good prices from the EU. If we leave, those prices will rise significantly and we will just buy less non-essential goods but Mercedes, Audi and BMW will still sell plenty of cars and even if they sell fewer, their profits won't be affected as they will be selling at a higher unit price.
The notion that we will be in negotiations for two years is simply a face-saving myth on the part of the British government until they find a way to get out of the mess Cameron created through his stupidity. If we should proceed 'Brexit' to a conclusion, where will the nation benefit and how? As for the two years, we may have people attend meetings but if the other side doesn't budge because they need do nothing, that can hardly be described as negotiations!
Tom
Do you realise just how corny that all sounds?
"Back your country and let's make it work?
How exactly is that going to work?
Lets all hope for the best, ignore the facts, smile and all will be well?
You'll have to do better than that!
So lets hear something positive you have to say in favour of Brexit.
Tell us how we are going to thrive, when with far larger resources we joined the EU we were failing, and called "The Sick man of Europe" and now we live off the backs of the financial swindlers in London, and have only a fraction of the industry we need as a minimum to survive een including the Foreign companies here, and in fact were falling even before the referendum.
What miracles will losing our biggest market bring?
- Who will rebuild the industrial Base we need to survive
- Who will pay for the Coastguard and Fleet to protect our shores
- Who will prevent the Government from ignoring the Immigration levels when the have already said they will rise
- Who will protect the environment human and workers right when all power rests with a right wing Government.
- Who will prevent Companies selling dangerous drugs and chemicals?
As soon as we are out of the EU all hell will break loose on the poor and even the middle classes.
Before VAT we had Purchase Tax 68% on luxury items and R.P.M ( Retail price maintenance) they will be back and you will not be happy!
Brexiters live in Cloud Cuckoo Land
So how do you explain Germany oh wise one, with 32 different little states
United States with 7 separate colonies, French, English, Dutch, Spanish.
In China
China is a multi-nationalities nation. Besides Han, which takes up over 90% of China's population, there are 55 ethnic groups
Russian Federation
Russia is a multi-national state with over 185 ethnic groups designated as nationalities; the ..... associations and 560 national cultural autonomies
According to you they are guilty of "Sheer Folly"
Your argument really doesn't work does it?
Sorry but you're not making sense, the sheer folly is missing out on the opportunity to join.
According to you the Human Race is incapable of change for the better, no wonder you favour Brexit.
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Thank goodness we never joined the Euro.
I agree much of what you say but I am of the opinion that any deal we achieve is worse than the one we have already. Margaret Thatcher got us a good deal,our budget contribution,per capita,is the lowest of any EU country.
I suppose I am angry about the xenophobia that Therea May is stirring up to appeal to the UKIP and National Front elements of the Brexit vote. My father fought in the RAF during the Second World War,alongside Polish airmen who defended our country during the Battle of Britain,he would have been horrified the way we are currently treating the Poles.
KudosDave
Ok,boring subject but it identifies the negotiation problems ahead of us...
re.....Simple pressure vessels,air compressors.
5 years ago there were 7 different standards for these machines in Europe,we had our own standard in the UK under the kite mark
Some EU countries would accept some standards but not all,our own standard was accepted in only 3 countries.
If you google....DIRECTIVE 2014/29/EU....you will see that this is a harmonisation standard now accepted by all 27 EU states,this standard has taken 5 years for an EU team to pick the best of all the standards and harmonise to everyone's agreement including the UK,the standard is identified by the CE mark,it means we have the right to sell our compressors to all E27.
The harmonisation was achieved in 2014 and went live 20 April 2016,so it's all very recent.
Note the CE mark is also accepted in many countries including the US,most of South America,Australia etc. In China there are many testers including Intertek (British company),SGS,TUV all capable of testing these machines to the directive and allowing the CE mark but not capable or interested in testing to the British standard.
If the EU won't let us to continue using these directives and there are literally hundreds of them,we won't be able to test our machines to the British Standard and even if we achieve that, nobody will accept the British Standard except in the UK.
These standards include all power tools,lifting mechanisms including jacks,alloy wheels,seat belts,baby seats,etc etc. How often do you see the British kite mark but the CE mark is everywhere.
Boris didn't tell you about this problem did he?
KudosDave
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Pleased to hear that,my son is flying out of Gdansk at the moment,taking stag weekends from the UK and moving Poles back n forth to the UK/Poland, but the way the Polish lady was treated on QT from Hartlepool would suggest that is not always the case.
The Polish guy kicked to death in Harlow,Essex by young thugs was not good.
KudosDave
More rubbish.
The Poles did not fight for Britain, they fought for Poland.
Lots of them also joined the Wermacht.
The Poles did not fight for Britain, they fought for Poland.
Lots of them also joined the Wermacht.
exactly how was she treated. She merely said that she didn't feel welcome because of Brexit. The cry of xenophobia and racism is a constant cry of the remainers. I don't think any other country would have accepted what was forced on us by Blair when the country had a sudden large influx of mainly Polish people. At that time I was working in a factory and suddenly all the jobs were being given to workers from Poland. I have no problems with them but they were taking jobs that were previously being done by English workers. Nice people,, good workers but no better than English. Just cheaper and easy to get rid of and also sending most of their money back home, thereby depriving the local community. It's caused a lot of resentment and that's probably one of the reasons we are here today having this debate. So I don't think this country is racist in general. Thats just a term used to stop rational debate and is very easy to use. People are just fed up of being trampled, lied to and taken for granted by politicians who couldn't care less about them. You keep moaning about Teresa May who has only just taken on the job after being left in a mess by Cameron. I say give her a chance and lets see what she is made of. Can't be any worse than the other spineless leaders we have had since Margaret Thatcher, and I ask the question again,. Who would you choose for the job. I don't personally see anyone
your generalisations about "poles" or "English" workers is racist (especially whether they are good or bad). I worked in the nhs. many of my colleagues were poles. some were Russian, there a few fellow Africans (Nigerians, Sudanese, a south African). we never considered each others' relative merit on the basis of ethnicity. perhaps we hadn't naturalised enough to achieve that level of prejudice. money didn't really come into it either. we considered each other's competence, which mattered a great deal. a lot of the services in the nhs have closed. because of the 2008 crash and loss of funding. but also because of brexit. the way the polish lady was treated on QT was completely unacceptable. everyone in the uk are immigrants or children or grandchildren etc of immigrants. its liberal values and society was largely what made this country work. becoming a close minded inward looking country economically and culturally wont work.
which one would that be, that "poles are cheap" or that they were "forced upon you"? so, you want a privileged life and protected employment on the basis of nationality because you cant succeed on your own merit. deeply impressive.
She was booed. She had lived here for 23 years,married to a Brit,but had always felt welcome until Brexit,you seem to be happy with that?
I don't employ any EE workers but I am told by my plumber that they are a problem because they work well,for low cost,fast and don't complain,he wants rid of the competition.
I complain about Theresa May because she started so well,appeared that she was going to heal the wounds within the Tory party but instead has widened those wounds,the result she has divided our country,the referendum was pretty much a 50/50 split and that is still there,she has done nothing to harmonise our society,I cannot see that she has done anything to satisfy either Remainer or Leaver,and there doesn't seem much in the pipeline...her words seem to mask the fact she hasn't got a clue how to get herself out of this mess....note I use the word herself not the country out of this mess.
She desperately wanted the PM job and realises that if she exits Brexit she is finished.
The only guy who seems to be trying to steer a course through all this mess is Hammond and May seems to accept him as a necessary evil. He is determined to keep us in the single market as does most of parliament,but May realises that negates her one negotiating card to control immigration,which is why she is desperate to keep Article 50 vote away from parliament.
Will Hammond or May resign first?
I agree about being fed up with politicians lying to us....Boris's £350 million and being able to stay in the single market and control immigration,all obvious lies now.
KudosDave
I believe in people being treated as equals,regardless of ethnicity or nationality. I don't think you are entitled to a privileged life on the basis of where you're born. Look on the bright side,making a life for oneself is a great deal more interesting than discriminating against foreigners and trying to preserve an ever shrinking sense of privilege with borders.
It appears we keep going round in circles....May today said again that she is not going for a hard Brexit,so one assumes by that she is intending that we are staying in the single market so one assumes she has given up trying to control immigration,so what is her intention....no wonder Nichola Sturgeon said that her meeting today was frustrating.
All the 3 divolved ministers came out of No 10 today and said to the world that Mrs May does not have a clue what Brexit means.
Kevin Maguire on Sky News said it all about Theresa May....he said....she's a mediocre prime minister,she's out of her depth and sinking fast. Anna Botting said we may have no idea what Brexit means for 2 years...Maguire agreed and said in the meantime that the pound will keep sinking,inflation will return and many will lose their jobs and May will keep saying Brexit means Brexit.
KudosDave
All the 3 divolved ministers came out of No 10 today and said to the world that Mrs May does not have a clue what Brexit means.
Kevin Maguire on Sky News said it all about Theresa May....he said....she's a mediocre prime minister,she's out of her depth and sinking fast. Anna Botting said we may have no idea what Brexit means for 2 years...Maguire agreed and said in the meantime that the pound will keep sinking,inflation will return and many will lose their jobs and May will keep saying Brexit means Brexit.
KudosDave
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Hi,
I don't usually pick people up for typos but this one has appeared at least 3 times in your posts. It should be "devolved" not "dissolved".
The idea that I live in a dissolved country is somewhat disconcerting.
wheeler
How dare you sir! The Goon show was formed of highly intelligent and cultivated people! Please compare your government to something less noble.
Different cultures but common history if you please! At least that is what is taught in secondary schools the world over. That is our advantage, a common history, and the history of the Americas was created by Europe, including the slavery bit and the genocide of indigenous populations.
They (USA) forgot the culture part and I see the UK is following in their footsteps - no more A level History of Art in your (non private) schools for example. You are sold out culturally to the USA when you were once inventors of modern culture! The only thing the UK is interested in now in is a strong pound against other world currencies, nothing else.
More rubbish from you, you could say exactly the same things about the Russians and without them we would be speaking German now.
We owe respect to those Polish Pilots.
"The 147 Polish pilots claimed 201 aircraft shot down. 303 Squadron claimed the highest number of kills (126) of all Allied squadrons engaged in the Battle of Britain.
The Commander-in-Chief of Fighter Command, Air Chief Marshal Sir Hugh Dowding, was blunter in his assessment, 'Had it not been for the magnificent work of the Polish squadrons and their unsurpassed gallantry, I hesitate to say that the outcome of battle would have been the same'. This assessment was echoed by the Secretary of State for the Air Force and indeed, during some of the most desperate points of the battle, the RAF had ‘only 350 pilots to scramble, of which nearly 100 were Poles’. Yet at the end of the war Polish troops were not allowed to participate in the Allied Victory Parade so as not to aggravate Joseph Stalin."
What have you got against the Poles?
Was there something more than Brexiteer Angst behind your comment?
And by the way some British Traitors joined the Waffen SS British Free Corps too, did you know that?
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