Brexit, for once some facts.

[oldgroaner]

Remember that last time he was in jail, 30,000 angry people turned up to protest at Downing Street and 100,000 signed a petition. That's an awful lot of people that thought he was unjustly put in jail. Can you think of any other instances of when there was such a protest to get someone out of jail?

Deliberate lies now? 30,000 protesters? Hogwash!
Reports suggested between 2,000 and 3,000 Tommy Robinson protesters turned up at Whitehall for the demonstration, with a heavy police presence on hand.
Resorting to exaggerating support by a multiple of ten?
Standard extremist practice.
Do stop posting lies and propaganda and stick to the thread.

 

[oldgroaner]

In the Express this morning
"
OUT OF THE WAY, MAY! Farage demands PM let HIM lead Brexit talks - ‘Behaved DESPICABLY'
NIGEL Farage has demanded a "significant role" in EU exit talks if his Brexit Party is victorious in the upcoming european elections.

He clearly doesn't understand that MEP's are not powerful enough to tell the UK Government what to do! and also
The internal workings of the EU Parliament are set out in its Rules of Procedure. They have evolved enormously over the past thirty years to cater for the greater powers and increased size of the Parliament and in order to respond to threats by a small minority of Eurosceptic MEPs to bring Parliament to a halt.
He is blowing his own trumpet over the influence he can exert.
And also it turns out that his party is standing on a WTO no deal Brexit.
Fascinating; on the one hand he want to lead Brexit talks and on the other he just wants not to have any and walk away

 

[50Hertz]

I’m just looking at some stats for access to doctors (your GP). Currently, according to the stats, we have 60 GPs per 100000 people. In 1984, it was 50 per 100000 people.

Why was there no GP crisis in 1984 and why could I see my GP within 24 hours in 1984, when we had less doctors? Are we being fed BS? Are the doctor’s surgeries working less efficiently?

 

[Woosh]

Why was there no GP crisis in 1984 and why could I see my GP within 24 hours in 1984, when we had less doctors? Are we being fed BS?

people were healthier and the average age was lower.
Just look at how many pills you have to take everyday. 20 years ago, I may have had a single doctors appointment every 2-3 years, now, easily once a month, not even counting hospital appointments.

 

[oyster]

I’m just looking at some stats for access to doctors (your GP). Currently, according to the stats, we have 60 GPs per 100000 people. In 1984, it was 50 per 100000 people.

Why was there no GP crisis in 1984 and why could I see my GP within 24 hours in 1984, when we had less doctors? Are we being fed BS?

A classic response to that is to suggest it is because of an ageing population. Or more demanding patients going to see GPs unnecessarily. Or the obesity crisis. Or the surge in diabetes. Or illegal drug taking. Or overburdening GPs with paperwork. Or "fast food". Or being "couch potatoes".

One aspect I will put forward, which is from experience rather than "what I read", is the number of people who are suffering from hypothyroidism but are not diagnosed. Hence, what are seen by some as multiple disorders are actually a constellation of signs and symptoms of lack of thyroid hormone. Because they are not diagnosed, they go back again and again, and get (at best) symptom by symptom treatments. (Cause of this is another matter and open to a huge discussion but probably not here.)

 

[oyster]

In the Express this morning
"
OUT OF THE WAY, MAY! Farage demands PM let HIM lead Brexit talks - ‘Behaved DESPICABLY'
NIGEL Farage has demanded a "significant role" in EU exit talks if his Brexit Party is victorious in the upcoming european elections.

He clearly doesn't understand that MEP's are not powerful enough to tell the UK Government what to do! and also
The internal workings of the EU Parliament are set out in its Rules of Procedure. They have evolved enormously over the past thirty years to cater for the greater powers and increased size of the Parliament and in order to respond to threats by a small minority of Eurosceptic MEPs to bring Parliament to a halt.
He is blowing his own trumpet over the influence he can exert.
And also it turns out that his party is standing on a WTO no deal Brexit.
Fascinating; on the one hand he want to lead Brexit talks and on the other he just wants not to have any and walk away

Unfair. He possibly has a role. He can take the letter withdrawing A50 and deliver it - provided he also agrees never to set foot in the UK ever again. Nor appear on any media.

 

[50Hertz]

people were healthier and the average age was lower.
Just look at how many pills you have to take everyday. 20 years ago, I may have had a single doctors appointment every 2-3 years, now, easily once a month, not even counting hospital appointments.

Maybe. Fortunately, I’m still at the one appointment every 5 - 10 year stage, so haven’t really experienced what you say. GPs need to start referring more people to my cycle for Health rides on a Monday evening It’s better than pills.

 

[oyster]

if his Brexit Party is victorious

What would count as being victorious? More than 50% of the vote?

 

[oyster]

Maybe. Fortunately, I’m still at the one appointment every 5 - 10 year stage, so haven’t really experienced what you say. GPs need to start referring more people to my cycle for Health rides on a Monday evening It’s better than pills.

I am every year - but that is very largely because I need my repeat prescription reviewed. No GP I have met knows more about my disorder than do I. I just need a blood test and the computer system to be told to review again next year.

 

[50Hertz]

A classic response to that is to suggest it is because of an ageing population. Or more demanding patients going to see GPs unnecessarily. Or the obesity crisis. Or the surge in diabetes. Or illegal drug taking. Or overburdening GPs with paperwork. Or "fast food". Or being "couch potatoes".

One aspect I will put forward, which is from experience rather than "what I read", is the number of people who are suffering from hypothyroidism but are not diagnosed. Hence, what are seen by some as multiple disorders are actually a constellation of signs and symptoms of lack of thyroid hormone. Because they are not diagnosed, they go back again and again, and get (at best) symptom by symptom treatments. (Cause of this is another matter and open to a huge discussion but probably not here.)

I am being deadly serious when I say the following: I sometimes wonder if people “catch” medical conditions off Facebook. I often see people posting their ailments on Facebook, which I can only conclude is an exercise in fishing for attention, and then see scores of overly sympathetic & mushy responses. I’m convinced the respondents to the original post then convince themselves they have the same or a similar condition. Depression seems to be particularly contagious on Facebook.

 

[OxygenJames]

He is blowing his own trumpet over the influence he can exert.

Be afraid - be very afraid:

Nigel Farage has stopped playing the clown. No wonder the Tories are scared

Nigel Farage has changed. I remember the Farage I used to write about, five years ago, at Ukip’s peak: a blur of bibulous mischief in either mustard cords or Thatcherite pin-stripes, tirelessly pulling pints for the cameras, parping with cartoon merriment, and sporting that bug-eyed smirk that made him look like a toad plotting a practical joke. He was noisy, chaotic, and revelrous in mayhem. His hands virtually squelched with glee.

Not any more. This new Farage – the one leading The Brexit Party – is different. His manner is stern, even severe; he proclaims his new party to be “organised” and “professional”; and he appears to have overcome his weakness for public clowning: no more clambering on to the turret of a tank after two swift pints at noon. His suits, meanwhile, are sharper and more sober – and so, it seems, is he.

This new Farage, in short, is not someone a Tory leader can dismiss as a nutty no-hoper. He’s now a threat. A serious threat.

Today he held a press conference in London. He was blunt, brisk, efficient. No japes, no larking. Several of his party’s candidates were present, but (aside from their chairman Richard Tice) none spoke. Their role, it appeared, was to applaud their leader, which they did with particular vigour whenever he rounded on a media outlet (the BBC, the Guardian) whose coverage he considered insufficiently favourable.

Something he didn’t really talk about, funnily enough, was Brexit. Not the details of Brexit, or its difficulties, or even its benefits. It’s the same with the rest of his new colleagues. Since the launch of their European election campaign I’ve watched various Brexit Party candidates give speeches, and they’ve said strikingly little about, for example, why they believe Brexit is still a good idea, or how they would solve the Irish border problem, or what precisely is so terrible about Theresa May’s deal (which would, after all, end freedom of movement, the main issue Mr Farage campaigned on during the 2016 referendum).

What they talk about, instead, is democracy. That’s the theme, the sole theme, of every Brexit Party speech. Honouring democracy, defending democracy, fighting for democracy. And the only way to do this (runs every Brexit Party speech) is to deliver not just Brexit, but a no-deal Brexit – otherwise, democracy is dead.

That’s the message. Nothing more. Brutally simple, and brutally repetitive.

Today, a journalist tried to ask Mr Farage what policies – other than a no-deal Brexit – his new party had. He didn’t get far. Not for the first time during this campaign, Mr Farage waved the question away, as if it were an annoyingly persistent fly.

“We are fighting this European election,” he scowled, “on the key question of democracy.” Because of this, he would not “go any deeper” into party policy “until after May 23”.

In other words: we’ll tell you what our policies are after you’ve voted for us. Well, that’s one way to defend democracy.

 

[OxygenJames]

I listen to radio 4 nearly all the time. I know I'm right about the media. There's a lot of twisting of facts. They choose what they show to suit their agendas. If something doesn't fit, they don't show it. Even my own dealings with a TV channel was a perfect example of how they completely faked the results to suit their agenda. What they showed on the TV was a million miles from the actual facts. That was a prima facie example that caused me to become suspicious about the rest.

Look at Sargon of Akkad. Instead of "look, here's a new face in politics. Lets see what his views and policies are", 100% of the mainstream media introduced him as the Youtuber that made a rape tweet to Jess Phillips as a headline. Why would they do that? He's a perfectly normal sensible guy with some interesting and different views to most of the mainstream politicians, but we never got a chance to find out about that.

Look at Panodrama. That's the BBC for Christ's sake.
Look at Avi Yemeni and what happened to him with cut and shut interview to take an answer from one question and show it as an answer to a different one to make him look bad. Why would they do that?

And? So what? That's the game. It's all a power game. Winner takes all. You can sit on the sidelines and complain your team is not getting its fair share - so what - nobody cares.

There's no right and wrong. One man's terrorist is another mans freedom fighter. Everybody is out for themselves no matter how they spin it otherwise. There are no saints.

Every argument you present there's an opposite one.

Be thankful for this brief moment called being alive. It won't last long.

 

[OxygenJames]

Why should they get media coverage? you get more on here pushing nonsense.

Right.

 

[OxygenJames]

Remember that last time he was in jail, 30,000 angry people turned up to protest at Downing Street and 100,000 signed a petition. That's an awful lot of people that thought he was unjustly put in jail. Can you think of any other instances of when there was such a protest to get someone out of jail?

It was totally justified. He broke the law plain and simple and he had been severely warned not to do exactly what he did. End of.

 

[50Hertz]

Be afraid - be very afraid:

Nigel Farage has stopped playing the clown. No wonder the Tories are scared

Nigel Farage has changed. I remember the Farage I used to write about, five years ago, at Ukip’s peak: a blur of bibulous mischief in either mustard cords or Thatcherite pin-stripes, tirelessly pulling pints for the cameras, parping with cartoon merriment, and sporting that bug-eyed smirk that made him look like a toad plotting a practical joke. He was noisy, chaotic, and revelrous in mayhem. His hands virtually squelched with glee.

Not any more. This new Farage – the one leading The Brexit Party – is different. His manner is stern, even severe; he proclaims his new party to be “organised” and “professional”; and he appears to have overcome his weakness for public clowning: no more clambering on to the turret of a tank after two swift pints at noon. His suits, meanwhile, are sharper and more sober – and so, it seems, is he.

This new Farage, in short, is not someone a Tory leader can dismiss as a nutty no-hoper. He’s now a threat. A serious threat.

Today he held a press conference in London. He was blunt, brisk, efficient. No japes, no larking. Several of his party’s candidates were present, but (aside from their chairman Richard Tice) none spoke. Their role, it appeared, was to applaud their leader, which they did with particular vigour whenever he rounded on a media outlet (the BBC, the Guardian) whose coverage he considered insufficiently favourable.

Something he didn’t really talk about, funnily enough, was Brexit. Not the details of Brexit, or its difficulties, or even its benefits. It’s the same with the rest of his new colleagues. Since the launch of their European election campaign I’ve watched various Brexit Party candidates give speeches, and they’ve said strikingly little about, for example, why they believe Brexit is still a good idea, or how they would solve the Irish border problem, or what precisely is so terrible about Theresa May’s deal (which would, after all, end freedom of movement, the main issue Mr Farage campaigned on during the 2016 referendum).

What they talk about, instead, is democracy. That’s the theme, the sole theme, of every Brexit Party speech. Honouring democracy, defending democracy, fighting for democracy. And the only way to do this (runs every Brexit Party speech) is to deliver not just Brexit, but a no-deal Brexit – otherwise, democracy is dead.

That’s the message. Nothing more. Brutally simple, and brutally repetitive.

Today, a journalist tried to ask Mr Farage what policies – other than a no-deal Brexit – his new party had. He didn’t get far. Not for the first time during this campaign, Mr Farage waved the question away, as if it were an annoyingly persistent fly.

“We are fighting this European election,” he scowled, “on the key question of democracy.” Because of this, he would not “go any deeper” into party policy “until after May 23”.

In other words: we’ll tell you what our policies are after you’ve voted for us. Well, that’s one way to defend democracy.

He’s the very definition of flash in the pan man. Farage is very skilled at tuning into and feeding people’s emotions. However, he is not a deliverer. His track record is irrefutable proof of this.

 

[OxygenJames]

He represents free speech and he's an example of how a guy gets treated just because he has some uncomfortable opinions and isn't frightened to say what he thinks. I believe in free speech too. I don't believe in any of these ridiculous left wing agendas that shut down free speech and make out that every minority group are victims of oppression. The politicians are now completely out of touch with what normal working people think and want. That's what Brexit is all about now. TR is much more in tune with working class families than any labour party politician. That's why he's so popular. If you go to any of his rallies or shows, you'll see that he's treated like a pop star. Everybody wants to come out and shake his hand or have a selfie with him. If it weren't for guys like him, we'd all be worse off.

I actually like the guy and after reading his book fully understand - growing up in Luton as he did - in the part of Luton he grew up in - why he ended up with the views he's now got.

But - it's a power game out there - and he's not winning it thus far.

 

[OxygenJames]

He’s the very definition of flash in the pan man. Farage is very skilled at tuning into and feeding people’s emotions. However, he is not a deliverer. His track record is irrefutable proof of this.

Total bo***ks.

 

[daveboy]

In the Express this morning

He is blowing his own trumpet over the influence he can exert.
And also it turns out that his party is standing on a WTO no deal Brexit.
Fascinating; on the one hand he want to lead Brexit talks and on the other he just wants not to have any and walk away

He has always said the best way to get a deal is to walk away.

 

[oyster]

I am being deadly serious when I say the following: I sometimes wonder if people “catch” medical conditions off Facebook. I often see people posting their ailments on Facebook, which I can only conclude is an exercise in fishing for attention, and then see scores of overly sympathetic & mushy responses. I’m convinced the respondents to the original post then convince themselves they have the same or a similar condition. Depression seems to be particularly contagious on Facebook.

Am quite sure there is some of that.

But, in the case of thyroid, I am also quite sure that there are many who simply do not reach some specific blood test level. I was diagnosed with a level of 5 and numerous symptoms. Treatment has resolved most of them. But much of the so-called guidance insists you have to reach 10. (Top of range is usually between 3.5 and 4.5.) There is NO scientific data to back up reaching 10. There are well-known, fully researched and documented reasons some people can never reach 10. Just yesterday I was reading a new paper (a case report), from the UK, where someone had spent 20 years undiagnosed - because their bodies could not produce enough to reach 10. Hardly reached 2.5! They almost died.

 

[daveboy]

My doctors have all gone part time....Peoples attitude to work are changing.
Why work 6 days a week when you can earn £60k to £80k working 3 days a week.

Part-time doctors are stretching NHS to breaking point

I can’t remember when I last saw my designated GP. For most ailments, I’m happy to see anyone at my local surgery and frequently settle for a very competent nurse. Now, according to a recent report, this is partly down to the fact that on average GPs work only a three-and-a-third-day week.

www.express.co.uk