Brexit, for once some facts.

[oyster]

Yesterday the Guardian had an opinion piece on brexit and medicines. As you might expect, deeply concerning for many if only because they are not convinced that adequate measures have been taken.

I couldn't help thinking that those so strongly insisting that there will not be a problem because of the stupendously good planning should be offering to put themselves in the firing line. OK - so I am not suggesting real bullets. But how about they all agree which order they will resign in if patients do die due to medicine supplies issues directly caused by brexit? Obviously, pensions to be withdrawn as well and they must disappear from public life for the rest of theirs.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/apr/06/for-me-fear-about-drug-supplies-is-real-i-could-go-blind#comment-127801272

 

[oyster]

ukip: up 6.1%

Plaid: up 2.5%
LibDems: up 2.4%
Greens: up 2.8%

anti-brexit total: 7.7% against 6.1%.
The most notable feature is total vote of the two major parties: 71%, down 20.7%.
That means hung parliament at the next GE.

I suspect turnout would be the absolute key - by that I mean which side manages to mobilise most effectively but a high total turnout would help to seal whatever the result whereas a low turnout as in Newport would be very disappointing.

We might even want ukip and the brexit party to take some tory votes...

 

[Fingers]

that may be the best way out.
the margin in the last referendum was so small, we shouldn't rush ahead to unpicking 47 years of gradual integration (Eurovision, Channel Tunnel, EHIC, CU, SM, free roaming), and proceed with extreme caution as a stop loss policy.

edit:
and I forgot to add General Data Protection Regulation, taxing the internet giants and tackling fake news.

Well the EBU isn’t going anywhere. The Channel Tunnel will not be filled in. We can get health insurance. It might even be a way for the NHS to make a coin if you have to pay for it because you’re not a UK citizen. Customs Union as is is part of the reason we want to leave. SM? Free roaming? You mean phones or people? Both will continue regardless.

We can do Data Protection. We can tax internet giants with the right government much quicker than the EU.

Fake News?

I’m not trying to be argumentative but there is an argument for every point you make. Why are we in it? I can be best friends with a Muslim without being a Muslim. It’s a bit like us and Ireland. They pay nothing for the licence fee, NHS etc but they get all the benefits we do for free.

I’m not suggesting the same as we are a proud country but we can be close trading partners without having to be led by them.

 

[oyster]

We can tax internet giants with the right government much quicker than the EU.

Can we both tax them and ensure that they don't just disappear to other countries (probably EU)? I have my doubts that we can do more than tax a small fragment of their operations that they keep in the UK - a branch office.

 

[Fingers]

Can we both tax them and ensure that they don't just disappear to other countries (probably EU)? I have my doubts that we can do more than tax a small fragment of their operations that they keep in the UK - a branch office.

Of course that is what you think. But it’s incorrect. They have said and built their major hq here. London is London. It’s Brexit proof. Or Brexit what’s in your mind.

They are going nowhere. And we should tax them till the pips burst because of it.

 

[Woosh]

Of course that is what you think. But it’s incorrect. They have said and built their major hq here. London is London. It’s Brexit proof. Or Brexit what’s in your mind.

They are going nowhere. And we should tax them till the pips burst because of it.

I don't think we can tax google, FB, Amazon, Ebay, Paypal etc any more than we can tax JRM's Somerset Capital funds as they simply upstick and move to Dublin and ownership to some offshore tax haven.
It has to be done by organisations as large as the EU or the USA.

 

[Danidl]

Well the EBU isn’t going anywhere. The Channel Tunnel will not be filled in. We can get health insurance. It might even be a way for the NHS to make a coin if you have to pay for it because you’re not a UK citizen. Customs Union as is is part of the reason we want to leave. SM? Free roaming? You mean phones or people? Both will continue regardless.

We can do Data Protection. We can tax internet giants with the right government much quicker than the EU.

Fake News?

I’m not trying to be argumentative but there is an argument for every point you make. Why are we in it? I can be best friends with a Muslim without being a Muslim. It’s a bit like us and Ireland. They pay nothing for the licence fee, NHS etc but they get all the benefits we do for free.

I’m not suggesting the same as we are a proud country but we can be close trading partners without having to be led by them.

We pay nothing for the license fee?. Get a grip man and do a bit of research. Irish people pay an obligatory licence fee for TV receivers. It is more inclusive than the UK model ,where you can claim you don't watch BBC and claim exemption. Of course that goes to fund RTE and other Irish broadcasters . Irish internet companies including Virgin, EIR and SKY Ireland, pay fees to the content producers eg BBC to transmit their stuff. If some of us living on the East coast put up massive antennae and get fringe reception of leaked RF ,then so be it. We cannot complain whenever a high pressure atmospheric zone wipes out reception. Likewise we don't complain if the people in Banbridge get to watch Fair City. ..(Mind you a certain Mr Paisley back in the day did).
Next the NHS and medical treatment. Irish born people living and working in the UK do get access to the NHS..why not ? Their tax are just as valuable.
Irish visitors get access under the EC111 scheme. A EU agreement by which treatment is given to nationals of any EU state,the same as given to that states citizens. The home state is then billed and the health service reimbursed. If the NHS don't follow that model, then that is down to their poor accounting,or perhaps a failure to recognise that there is a new country called RoI and its not the other Shetlands

 

[Kudoscycles]

Ukip's share of the vote increased in the by election. I wish you were right. Im afraid it may be a more fragmented divisive politics. Im coming round to corbyn's point of view, that the public should be excluded from this inflamed process for a while and hoc deal with brexit.

I agree the extreme parties,left and right,could prosper with a GE. I myself could not vote Tory,because I don’t trust this government,especially with the risk of an idiot like Boris as PM. If I voted Labour the Marxists will come out of the woodwork and we could have a ‘hit the wealthy’ government.
If Change put up candidates on a Remain manifesto I would be tempted. But I suspect aggrieved Leavers would migrate to Farage Brexit or UKIP. The end result could be a hung parliament,with either Tory or Labour as PM and the balance of power held by the extremes.

 

[Kudoscycles]

I don't think we can tax google, FB, Amazon, Ebay, Paypal etc any more than we can tax JRM's Somerset Capital funds as they simply upstick and move to Dublin and ownership to some offshore tax haven.
It has to be done by organisations as large as the EU or the USA.

A turnover tax,where companies either pay corporation tax or turnover tax. There needs to be a formula between the two that in most cases paying the corporation tax is favoured. Suddenly all these businesses would start putting fair returns.
Maybe a £100 million lower limit on turnover.
KudosDave

 

[oyster]

It isn't supposed to "not be so grim" - it was supposed to be land flowing with milk and honey. Wasn't that in all the referendum propaganda?

Andrea Leadsom: no-deal Brexit next week would not be so grim
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/apr/07/andrea-leadsom-no-deal-brexit-next-week-would-not-be-so-grim

 

[oyster]

A turnover tax,where companies either pay corporation tax or turnover tax. There needs to be a formula between the two that in most cases paying the corporation tax is favoured. Suddenly all these businesses would start putting fair returns.
Maybe a £100 million lower limit on turnover.
KudosDave

How does the turnover get calculated? If your UK company has, say, a USA-based website, and buys advertising through Google in the USA, how does the UK government tax it?

 

[daveboy]

How does the turnover get calculated? If your UK company has, say, a USA-based website, and buys advertising through Google in the USA, how does the UK government tax it?

Could they not work it out using the amount of Uk vat paid.
( for turnover in the UK)

 

[oyster]

Could they not work it out using the amount of Uk vat paid.
( for turnover in the UK)

But if they are paying in the USA, there won't be any. That really was my point.

(I saw Daniel Hannan has his own VAT plan. Replace VAT by local sales tax managed by local councils. Apart from being unable to imagine the typical council being able to do this, and the likelihood of neighbouring councils entering sales tax wars, it would also seem to undermine your suggestion.)

 

[oyster]

Of course that is what you think. But it’s incorrect. They have said and built their major hq here. London is London. It’s Brexit proof. Or Brexit what’s in your mind.

They are going nowhere. And we should tax them till the pips burst because of it.

But they are more than capable of doing things like inflating their apparent "research and development" to offset profit. And acting as a gateway to signing you up with Google in mutually tax advantageous other countries. Their UK turnover may still be significant but I doubt it would reflect what you or I would consider their real turnover.

 

[daveboy]

But if they are paying in the USA, there won't be any. That really was my point.

(I saw Daniel Hannan has his own VAT plan. Replace VAT by local sales tax managed by local councils. Apart from being unable to imagine the typical council being able to do this, and the likelihood of neighbouring councils entering sales tax wars, it would also seem to undermine your suggestion.)

A local sales Tax will never happen. The Government like to control council budgets too much.

 

[flecc]

A local sales Tax will never happen. The Government like to control council budgets too much.

Agreed, and not only for that reason. It can't work here because council areas are too small in area, people will just step across the border to pay less. Sales tax works in the USA because it's at state level and states are large, so only those nearest the borders take advantage of lower costs across the line.
.

 

[oyster]

Agreed, and not only for that reason. It can't work here because council areas are too small in area, people will just step across the border to pay less. Sales tax works in the USA because it's at state level and states are large, so only those nearest the borders take advantage of lower costs across the line.
.

The USA has for years had issues with sales taxes and internet sales.

In the old days of rates, we had parish, city, county, etc. rates, but the differences tended to be small. If the sales taxes are near enough the same, there seems little point. And if they are not, well, flecc is quite right.

But it doesn't stop Daniel Hannan putting forward idiotic ideas.

 

[Fingers]

But they are more than capable of doing things like inflating their apparent "research and development" to offset profit. And acting as a gateway to signing you up with Google in mutually tax advantageous other countries. Their UK turnover may still be significant but I doubt it would reflect what you or I would consider their real turnover.

I read the other day that Google and Facebook get something like 54 billion of the advertising in the UK. The rest get 4 to 5 billion combined.

That's what they need to go after.

 

[oldgroaner]

Well the EBU isn’t going anywhere. The Channel Tunnel will not be filled in. We can get health insurance. It might even be a way for the NHS to make a coin if you have to pay for it because you’re not a UK citizen. Customs Union as is is part of the reason we want to leave. SM? Free roaming? You mean phones or people? Both will continue regardless.

We can do Data Protection. We can tax internet giants with the right government much quicker than the EU.

Fake News?

I’m not trying to be argumentative but there is an argument for every point you make. Why are we in it? I can be best friends with a Muslim without being a Muslim. It’s a bit like us and Ireland. They pay nothing for the licence fee, NHS etc but they get all the benefits we do for free.

I’m not suggesting the same as we are a proud country but we can be close trading partners without having to be led by them.

Allow e to urinate on your bonfire.
No one wants to pay health insurance , it would ve far too expensive for normal incomes in the working class
we can do this?
"We can do Data Protection. We can tax internet giants with the right government much quicker than the EU"
Then why haven't we? the EU isn't stopping us is it?
And this is rubbish too
"without having to be led by them"

We were leading them most of the time, but thanks to Brexit we have demoted ourselves from powerful member to supplicant
idiotic thing to do isn't it?
Why do Brexit Voters keep trotting out these same old dead as a dodo claims?

 

[oldgroaner]

I read the other day that Google and Facebook get something like 54 billion of the advertising in the UK. The rest get 4 to 5 billion combined.

That's what they need to go after.

Then why haven't they when no one is stopping them?