Brexit, for once some facts.

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,154
30,570
and in the near future a 5g data connection for the speed restriction database.
I had to comment on this. As I've often complained, even in my London borough I haven't even got half a G so don't have a smartphone since it would be of little use. In this country the near future never arrives for more than a small number, our single very short high speed rail route being another example.

For car speed control by satellite we were going to have achance of better with Galileo, but now with Brexit we've even chucked that away.
.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Wicky and robdon

Danidl

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2016
8,611
12,256
73
Ireland
I think that “May’s deal” is actually a deal constructed by the EU and deliberately intended to be so unattractive that we remain. I doubt if any negotiation took place, more a case of, this is what you are getting. It’s a sort of win / win + bonus, situation for the EU, A lose / lose + kick in the teeth, situation for us. May seems to have opted for lose + kick in the teeth on our behalf.

What a trustworthy man Mogg has turned out to be.

Edit. Untrustworthy!
I am getting tired making these corrections, but as the end is in sight, I will persevere.
The Deal that Mrs May signed was the result of 2.5 years of negotiation,where the result of the EU working around Mrs Mays set of RED LINEs , and the few of their own. Since the substantial matters had not been discussed in the UK Parliament, how could the EU know they were unattractive?. Indeed ,for similar reasons, how did Mrs May know they would be acceptable or otherwise?.
The EU wanted and wants a deal,it is UK who remain confused.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: robdon

Zlatan

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 26, 2016
8,086
4,290
I am getting tired making these corrections, but as the end is in sight, I will persevere.
The Deal that Mrs May signed was the result of 2.5 years of negotiation,where the result of the EU working around Mrs Mays set of RED LINEs , and the few of their own. Since the substantial matters had not been discussed in the UK Parliament, how could the EU know they were unattractive?. Indeed ,for similar reasons, how did Mrs May know they would be acceptable or otherwise?.
The EU wanted and wants a deal,it is UK who remain confused.
I wonder how many criticise the deal without actually having read it. Trouble is people form opinions of it from media, both sides put their own spin on it to try and ruin it, for opposing reasons but with same affect.
Personally think the deal is a fair compromise considering ref result and if EU are taken at face value even the backstop is surmountable.
I suspect the vast majority of folk, perhaps apart from either extreme, want the deal accepted by parliament.
I also think May deserves credit for hanging on in there. She has done herself credit, not many others have.
Its not May showing country up, its the idiot MPs not carrying out their manifesto promises and defying the wishes of consituents. Time to accept deal.... Or forget the whole episode. We dont want ref2 or another election.
 

jonathan.agnew

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 27, 2018
2,400
3,381
I wonder how many criticise the deal without actually having read it. Trouble is people form opinions of it from media, both sides put their own spin on it to try and ruin it, for opposing reasons but with same affect.
Personally think the deal is a fair compromise considering ref result and if EU are taken at face value even the backstop is surmountable.
I suspect the vast majority of folk, perhaps apart from either extreme, want the deal accepted by parliament.
I also think May deserves credit for hanging on in there. She has done herself credit, not many others have.
Its not May showing country up, its the idiot MPs not carrying out their manifesto promises and defying the wishes of consituents. Time to accept deal.... Or forget the whole episode. We dont want ref2 or another election.
The problem i have is a growing visceral resentment towards may. For her sneering insincerity and visible quite sadistic disdain for anyone that isnt the kind of inner circle tory member that can keep her in power. Its getting to a level where id switch of the car radio if she came on, or tv channels if she appears. If she were in a position to continue this charade, id become upset about it in ways that wouldnt feel ok.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Wicky and robdon

Zlatan

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 26, 2016
8,086
4,290
The problem i have is a growing visceral resentment towards may. For her sneering insincerity and visible quite sadistic disdain for anyone that isnt the kind of inner circle tory member that can keep her in power. Its getting to a level where id switch of the car radio if she came on, or tv channels if she appears. If she were in a position to continue this charade, id become upset about it in ways that wouldnt feel ok.
I get that, we turn radio /tele off if we hear any politicians pontificating (either way) about Brexit. Some are just so tedious. Everybody is sick of them all. I felt same listening to Nick Boles..
But we shouldnt discount Mays deal because her name is on it. I doubt she had much input....
 

Danidl

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2016
8,611
12,256
73
Ireland
I wonder how many criticise the deal without actually having read it. Trouble is people form opinions of it from media, both sides put their own spin on it to try and ruin it, for opposing reasons but with same affect.
Personally think the deal is a fair compromise considering ref result and if EU are taken at face value even the backstop is surmountable.
I suspect the vast majority of folk, perhaps apart from either extreme, want the deal accepted by parliament.
I also think May deserves credit for hanging on in there. She has done herself credit, not many others have.
Its not May showing country up, its the idiot MPs not carrying out their manifesto promises and defying the wishes of consituents. Time to accept deal.... Or forget the whole episode. We dont want ref2 or another election.
Yes Zlatan, I am inclined to agree with you, and EU leaders like Merkel concur. Mrs May has shown remarkable resilience (or perhaps obstinacy) . What struck me in some of those debates is that she seems to understand what is at stake... An understanding which is eluding many on the back and front benches.
It is a pity that Ken Clarke is not in that role,as he seems to gave an intuitive understanding on how to
make progress
 

OxygenJames

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 8, 2012
2,593
1,041
The latest from you know who (special prize for the first person to name who just wrote this):

[hint - you want another referendum? Bring. It. On]

"Watching SW1 these days reminds me of that scene in Citizen Kane when Boss Jim Gettys confronts Orson Welles (Kane):

Gettys: ‘You’re making a bigger fool of yourself than I thought you would Mr Kane… With anybody else I’d say what’s going to happen to you would be a lesson to you, only you’re gonna need more than one lesson — and you’re gonna get more than one lesson.’

Kane: … I’m gonna send you to Sing Sing Gettys, Siiinngg Siiiiinnnnngggggg…

These guys didn’t learn from the 2004 referendum before 2016 and even now very few seem to realise that a ‘second referendum’ would, given minimal competence from ‘Leave’, be a mega-repeat of 2004 in which ‘the EU’ would not even be the main issue.

Remember: we won the 2004 referendum after starting 60-40 behind with no money, no digital campaign, no ground campaign, every force in the North East hostile, and with the campaign consisting of not much more than my girlfriend, dad, uncle and literally a handful of people. I think we spent ~£50-100k. We won 80-20. (It was a training exercise that turned out surprisingly well.) SW1 ~100% ignored it, thankfully. The intricacies of the Regional Assembly were not central to how the campaign developed, just as the EU will not be central to a second referendum — it will be about YOU AND YOUR PARTIES, dear MPs, and if you think 2016 was bad, you will find the next one somewhere between intolerable and career-ending.

They didn’t learn from expenses or from 2008. They didn’t learn from Vote Leave. They need more than one lesson and they’re gonna get more than one lesson…

The Commons Privileges Committee has sent through two documents you can read below with my last email to them.

Last year Damian Collins asked if I would give evidence to his committee. I agreed. He faffed around for ages and instead of agreeing a date he issued a Summons thinking I would then have to agree to appear and he would get a decent PR hit from Carole’s conspiracy network. I told him to get lost.

After this farce, the Commons Privileges Committee asked if I would give evidence to them.

I agreed in early September 2018 but said that WE SHOULD ALL BE UNDER OATH TO TELL THE TRUTH.

They went dark for months until just before Christmas then replied that No, they didn’t want to promise to tell the truth and sadly they weren’t able to make such a promise(!) but would I come anyway.

We tentatively agreed 31 Jan and I stressed again that WE SHOULD ALL BE UNDER OATH TO TELL THE TRUTH and their arguments against this were laughable.

They cancelled the hearing in January and declined to reschedule it. After another 9 months of occasional emails, they’ve decided they don’t want to speak to me after all.

Their behaviour is similar to the Electoral Commission’s. The Electoral Commission found VL guilty of breaking the rules BUT REFUSED TO TAKE EVIDENCE FROM ANY OF THE VL STAFF INVOLVED IN WHAT THEY WERE INVESTIGATING. Their desire NOT to know what we did is so extreme that even after some VL staff hired lawyers and threatened legal action to force the EC to take evidence, the EC replied that they would spend taxpayers money fighting in court for their right NOT TO TAKE EVIDENCE DIRECTLY RELEVANT TO THE INQUIRY FROM VL STAFF. This, I think, partly explains why the supposed ‘police inquiry’ has gone nowhere. This farce has no legs. The EC trumped up some charges to keep Remain-MPs off their backs but they could not maintain their bullshit in open court with everybody, including the Zoolander ‘whistleblowers’, giving evidence under oath. Remember, the only entity proved in open court to have lied about BeLeave funding is the EC itself which was admonished for its lies to the media by the judge.

Obviously some of these characters genuinely believe in the global conspiracy. Some well-educated people are incredibly easy to fool with conspiracies partly because their defences are low — they think they are rational and ‘advertising works on thick plebs not well-educated rational people like me’.

Others see it as a way to campaign for a second referendum. As Adonis has said, the point of pursuing the conspiracy theories is to justify making it illegal for the Vote Leave team to participate in future referendums/elections — the sort of action against political opponents that hasn’t happened in Britain for centuries. Brexit-derangement is so extreme this sort of thing is now normal among high profile supporters of ‘the People’s Vote’.

My offer to give evidence to MPs remains open. As does my reasonable demand that ALL OF US ARE UNDER OATH TO TELL THE TRUTH. I hope they take it up but am not hopeful.

*

Coincidentally, dear MPs, the Vote Leave Standards Committee is meeting this week to discuss your behaviour since the referendum.

Some of you, on both sides of Leave/Remain and Tory/Labour, have tried very hard and made sacrifices in the public interest since the referendum.

But many of you have treated the public with more than contempt.

Our committee has greater powers at its disposal than ‘admonishment’.

The first line of its code reads:

With a gentleman a gentleman and-a-half, with a pirate a pirate-and-a-half.

Those of you who think you can get away with promising to respect the referendum result then abandoning this promise are in the ‘pirate’ category.

Those of you in the narcissist-delusional subset of the ERG who have spent the last three years scrambling for the 810 Today slot while spouting gibberish about trade and the law across SW1 — i.e exactly the contemptible behaviour that led to your enforced marginalisation during the referendum and your attempt to destroy Vote Leave — you are also in the pirate category. You were useful idiots for Remain during the campaign and with every piece of bullshit from Bill Cash et al you have helped only Remain for three years. Remember how you WELCOMED the backstop as a ‘triumph’ in December 2017 when it was obvious to everybody who knew what was going on — NOT the Cabinet obviously — that this effectively ended the ‘negotiations’? Remember how Bernard Jenkin wrote on ConHome that he didn’t have to ‘ruin his weekend’ reading the document to know it was another success for the natural party of government — bringing to mind very clearly how during the referendum so many of you guys were too busy shooting or skiing or chasing girls to do any actual work. You should be treated like a metastasising tumour and excised from the UK body politic.

Actions have consequences…

Ps. Dear Vote Leave activists…

Please get in touch with friends and family who you know are onside. Start rebuilding our network now. The crucial data to collect: name, email, postcode, mobile (full address if possible). If we need to set up a new entity — a campaign, a party — you will be able to plug this straight into new data infrastructure and we will try to grow super-fast. And it looks like we will need to…

Remember: we won last time even though the Establishment had every force with power and money on their side. They screwed it up because they do not have good models of effective action: they literally do not know what they are doing, as they have demonstrated to the world in the farcical negotiations. They are screwing up their attempt to cancel the referendum. Beating them again and by more will be easier than 2016."
 

OxygenJames

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 8, 2012
2,593
1,041
The problem i have is a growing visceral resentment towards may. For her sneering insincerity and visible quite sadistic disdain for anyone that isnt the kind of inner circle tory member that can keep her in power. Its getting to a level where id switch of the car radio if she came on, or tv channels if she appears. If she were in a position to continue this charade, id become upset about it in ways that wouldnt feel ok.
I've stopped listening to any of them.
 

Fingers

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 9, 2016
3,373
1,552
46
JC... "John, it seems our chances of getting in power might have got a bit better, is there anything you can do to get them back to normal"

JM "Well, Jeremy, what about a letter to treasury saying if we get in we, d be starting a programmw of reducation for civil servants, helping them with new marxist theories of economics"

JC.. "Thats perfect John, should put voters off nicely"

JM.. "I, ll get on with it now"..

You couldnt make it up.

Nick Boles, the minister who utilised government funds for foreign language lessons so he could talk to his boyfriend is now the hero, well for his 10 minutes of fame anyway.

Its getting worse.. What a mess. Still reckon its no deal, thanks to remainers.

Nah. Its done. We were never going to be allowed to leave. Too much at stake to let us leave. Was fun whilst it lasted though. It got to see and identify what world class cowards we have this country. It also exposes the whole illusion of democracy as well.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,154
30,570
An impressive record indeed
In the post you were replying to I mentioned the sales of the Leaf over 300,000. I've just got the latest update, as of this March it's reached over 400,000, still by far the largest sales of any e-car worldwide.
.
 
  • Like
Reactions: robdon

oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
10,422
14,609
West West Wales
It is crazy that someone can refuse to appear and appear to "get away with it". The rest of us can be forced to appear in courts of law for what, at least some of the time, appear less significant issues. If the committee is unable to ensure attendance, then we need another approach which can force appearance. That could be a court of law, or some other approach. Leaving is open for people to simply say "I don't want to" does not seem a viable option for the future.

Commons report rules Dominic Cummings in contempt of parliament
Ex-director of Vote Leave campaign faces admonishment for refusing to appear at MPs’ committee
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/27/commons-report-rules-dominic-cummings-in-contempt-of-parliament
 
  • Like
Reactions: robdon

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,154
30,570
It is crazy that someone can refuse to appear and appear to "get away with it". The rest of us can be forced to appear in courts of law for what, at least some of the time, appear less significant issues. If the committee is unable to ensure attendance, then we need another approach which can force appearance. That could be a court of law, or some other approach. Leaving is open for people to simply say "I don't want to" does not seem a viable option for the future.

Commons report rules Dominic Cummings in contempt of parliament
Ex-director of Vote Leave campaign faces admonishment for refusing to appear at MPs’ committee
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/27/commons-report-rules-dominic-cummings-in-contempt-of-parliament
I understand the point you are making, but have to disagree. The behaviour of some of these select committees has often been disgraceful in the ways they've treated witnesses they've called.

They are not courts of law and I don't see why anyone should be made a target for abuse by pompous, arrogant MPs from within a like minded clique, which is how most select committees are populated. If they don't want to be treated with contempt, they should stop treating witnesses with contempt.

If someone like Cummings has broken the law they can be prosecuted. If they haven't they shouldn't be compelled to appear before anyone.
.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: robdon

Fingers

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 9, 2016
3,373
1,552
46
It certainly sounds easy to do, but just like Brexit I suspect it might be a bit more complicated. I have not looked at this in any detail but off the top of my head. The cables feeding the lampposts, the switch gear controlling those cables, the transformers in the sub stations, would all have been sized for the likely lighting load. I am sure they would have been sized to cope with some additional load being connected, but I am not sure if they would be able to cope with lots of electric cars drawing quite a lot of current from them. These cars would often be connected up at night when people have come home from work, and at night is when the street lights are on. So both loads would be connected at the same time so could lead to over load conditions.

I remember seeing a program about it. It can be done. I'm sure it's already the case in some parts of the world.

It's really not that difficult. Lampposts are effectively on a giant ring main.
 

Fingers

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 9, 2016
3,373
1,552
46
I had to comment on this. As I've often complained, even in my London borough I haven't even got half a G so don't have a smartphone since it would be of little use. In this country the near future never arrives for more than a small number, our single very short high speed rail route being another example.

For car speed control by satellite we were going to have achance of better with Galileo, but now with Brexit we've even chucked that away.
.

That makes no sense at all. You clearly have Internet so when at home connect to that and when out use mobile data.

And furthermore I don't belive anywhere. And I mean anywhere in London doesn't have at least a solid 3g connection unless you are a hobbit and live underground.
 

OxygenJames

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 8, 2012
2,593
1,041
Relatively old news but worth repeating - This has been since the 2016 referendum.

Brexit costing Britain £800m a week, warns Bank of England

It equated to £40bn a year or £800m a week, he said, despite no material changes in the relationship between the UK and EU having occurred yet.
The same Bank of England that told us we'd have a 4% drop in GDP, increased unemployment and advised Osborne on the need for a £30B emergency budget.
 

Advertisers