Brexit, for once some facts.

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
20,447
16,915
Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
Rees-Mogg and IDS say that trading on WTO wont be that bad ,just a few short term blips...try telling that to the guy in Bristol,who employs 85 people selling extreme sports accessories/clothing,his WTO tariff into the EU will be 14%,he only makes 15% profit. I believe he is going to have to relocate to Germany and reduce his UK business to only satisfy the UK.
There must be thousands of businesses in the same position...dont forget you can ship from Asia to Rotterdam just as easily as Felixstowe.
My own business is lucky,average 2.7% tariff but why did farmers vote for brexit with 40% tariff,why did Nissan workers vote Brexit with 10% tariff?????
the more those two try to hold TM to No Deal brexit, the more likely parliament is going to ask for A50 extension at the 11th hour.
The next Meaningful vote on brexit is 21 January.
To enable brexit on the 29th March, parliament needs to pass 4 large bills and enable 800 statutory instruments. They need a couple of months at least.
That is one motion certain to get the majority.

Once brexit is postponed, it's a small step to a second referendum.
 
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Zlatan

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 26, 2016
8,086
4,290
Again silly scaremongering and NOT TRUE. Committee decisions are regularly dismissed by the Parliament. For example, the Commission has tried hard to introduce compulsory cycle helmets EU wide and been overwhelmingly defeated by the European Parliament. And tried again for e-bikes and defeated again. Ditto trying to ban open face m/c helmets.
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Whats point if having them then. Pointless springs to mind.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,260
30,648
Looking ominous... very 50/50

https://www.bike-eu.com/laws-regulations/nieuws/2019/01/help-needed-to-prevent-mandatory-e-bike-insurance-10135121

BRUSSELS, Belgium – Yesterday, the European Cyclists Federation (ECF) issued an emergency call to all stakeholders as a mandatory insurance on all e-bike types still looms. The ECF call says “Despite the hard work of ECF and its partners in the bicycle industry to make sure that they are excluded from the EU Motor Insurance Directive, the European Commission’s proposal includes this obligation. This has the potential to inflict substantial damage on the development of the European e-bike market.“


Will all e-bikes need to have an insurance plate soon? ECF issued an emergency call to all stakeholders to prevent this.


The ECF notes that on 22 January a decisive vote will take place in the European Parliament. “We will need your help to convince Parliamentarians to scrap mandatory insurance for EPACs (e-bikes)”, states the Federation.
The ECF lists these latest e-bike developments:

  • Despite our lobby efforts the European Commission decided to include EPACs in the legislative proposal. If it stands, this would mean that all pedelecs/EPACs would have to have mandatory motor vehicle insurance.
You have absolutely no basis for saying it looks 50/50 Tommie.

Re-read this post
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,260
30,648
Whats point if having them then. Pointless springs to mind.
The Commissions function is to recommend harmonisation measures to assist the formation of a single country of Europe. All are subject to the European parliament's elected members approval since the EU is a democracy, despite what the ignorant believe.

Some of the recommended measures will naturally of course be resisted by the Parliament, democracy in action, but that doesn't invalidate either body.
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Zlatan

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 26, 2016
8,086
4,290
You have absolutely no basis for saying it looks 50/50 Tommie.

Re-read this post
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Come on flecc. If Tommie is correct it will seriously affect ebike sales. If you are correct WTF are they wasting time and money producing rubbish like this for members to ignore. A point I made about a year ago, which you ignored then aswell.
Either its interfering or pointless. You decide.
 

Danidl

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2016
8,611
12,256
73
Ireland
if people are stockpiling it is because they are being told that there are going to be shortages therefore it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy
Correct. But had the state,which is organising the stock piling, they would or could have increased their orders by 3% two years ago, an increase which would have factored into normal production planning,and would not cause bottlenecks.
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,260
30,648
Come on flecc. If Tommie is correct it will seriously affect ebike sales. If you are correct WTF are they wasting time and money producing rubbish like this for members to ignore. A point I made about a year ago, which you ignored then aswell.
Either its interfering or pointless. You decide.
Not so, see this answer above.

Tommie is almost never correct, he likes to scaremonger and exaggerate.
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Danidl

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2016
8,611
12,256
73
Ireland
Aren`t we all as Ebikers so so glad to be members of that EU paradise ... :rolleyes:

The European Commission will vote on whether e-bike riders should have car-style compulsory third-party insurance on the 22nd January

The European Commission will vote on whether e-bike riders should have mandatory third-party vehicle insurance on the 22nd January - and if the law is passed it could have a hugely negative effect on the usage and sales of e-bikes, say the European Cyclists Federation (link is external).

The European e-bike market could suffer “substantial damage” according to the ECF, and they are calling for help from the public in assuring the EU Motor Insurance Directive won't apply to e-bikes: “We will need your help to convince Parliamentarians to scrap mandatory insurance for EPACs (e-bikes)”, stated the Federation.

https://ebiketips.road.cc/content/news/eu-to-vote-on-mandatory-e-bike-insurance-1775?fbclid=IwAR2_NOHmoRaGw2sZU7hj-rGZrV5xr45QNaqX_QpxyA3ygL5g-Uf895-slQ4

PS. hey Dan you got a quote yet for the Motus??
and will you have to display plates as it seems to indicate? "mandatory third-party vehicle insurance on the 22nd January"
But since I can legally ride my ebike in my country ,and you cannot, I am puzzled why you would even bring it up. More importantly, there will always be groups providing policy inputs, it is called lobbying . Some are good ideas some are not. Then we have parliamentarians who discuss these ideas rationally. Then if a majority agree the EU parliament makes a directive. Member states can in certain cases opt out . Its a novel idea we call it democracy. It might be an idea to introduce it in your domain.
 

gray198

Esteemed Pedelecer
Apr 4, 2012
1,592
1,069
Again silly scaremongering and NOT TRUE. Committee decisions are regularly dismissed by the Parliament. For example, the Commission has tried hard to introduce compulsory cycle helmets EU wide and been overwhelmingly defeated by the European Parliament. And tried again for e-bikes and defeated again. Ditto trying to ban open face m/c helmets.
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no doubt Bosch will be lobbying hard on that one
 

tommie

Esteemed Pedelecer
Mar 13, 2013
1,760
600
Co. Down, N. Ireland, U.K.
You have absolutely no basis for saying it looks 50/50 Tommie.

Re-read this post
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This one didn`t even end up 50/50 did it???


"The EU has today rubber stamped up to 79.3% combined anti-dumping and anti-subsidy duties on e-bike imports from China.
Following the announcement in the EU Official Journal, Annick Roetynck of LEVA said: “This is a deeply regrettable Commission decision, which goes directly against all the efforts of that very same Commission to achieve the EU’s climate goals. What’s more, it is also punishing the European citizens by limiting the offer of electric bicycles, which are bound to increase in price, just as European citizens start to embrace light electric mobility. The duties [will] also have a devastating impact on a large number of European SMEs, whose livelihoods depend on the assembly e-bikes in China.”
 

anotherkiwi

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 26, 2015
7,845
5,786
The European Union
But since I can legally ride my ebike in my country ,and you cannot, I am puzzled why you would even bring it up. More importantly, there will always be groups providing policy inputs, it is called lobbying . Some are good ideas some are not. Then we have parliamentarians who discuss these ideas rationally. Then if a majority agree the EU parliament makes a directive. Member states can in certain cases opt out . Its a novel idea we call it democracy. It might be an idea to introduce it in your domain.
Erm... he can legally ride his ebike in your country... :rolleyes:

Try this:
But since I can legally ride my ebike in my country, and you cannot legally ride your ebike in your country, I am puzzled why you would even bring it up.
 
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Danidl

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2016
8,611
12,256
73
Ireland
Erm... he can legally ride his ebike in your country... :rolleyes:

Try this:
But since I can legally ride my ebike in my country, and you cannot legally ride your ebike in your country, I am puzzled why you would even bring it up.
Erm... he can legally ride his ebike in your country... :rolleyes:

Try this:
But since I can legally ride my ebike in my country, and you cannot legally ride your ebike in your country, I am puzzled why you would even bring it up.
Ok fair cop!.. but of course since the GFA , my country is his country!!!!. Since he can get an Irish and therefore EU passport.
 

50Hertz

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 2, 2019
2,199
2,403
Just clear a point for me please.

I understand that we are due to leave the EU on 29/03/2019. Is that the default position if the present stalemate is not resolved? Will the clock tick down and that will be it, out, no deal, WTO trading terms? Can parliament stop that happening?
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,260
30,648
This one didn`t even end up 50/50 did it???
So what, it's an entirely different issue where the EU is protecting its manufacturers against foreign competition.

As I've posted, in pedelec safety issues the record shows that the Commission routinely fails to get parliament to agree.

Even in this insurance issue it's probably the case that the Commission has mistakenly included our pedelecs and the EU Parliament will no doubt put them right. Ever since the establishment of the L1e-A and L1e-B classifications there has been some confusion.

L1e-A is the former low powered moped class, based on bicycles and restricted to the same 15.5 mph as pedelecs, but with up to 1000 watts rating and classified as motor vehicles. Thus it's easy for those unfamiliar to get that bicycle based class mixed up with pedelecs.

But of course EU law specifically exempts pedelecs from being motor vehicles and not in the L1e-A classification. Once the difference dawns I'm confident this issue will die for us.
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,260
30,648
Just clear a point for me please.

I understand that we are due to leave the EU on 29/03/2019. Is that the default position if the present stalemate is not resolved? Will the clock tick down and that will be it, out, no deal, WTO trading terms? Can parliament stop that happening?
Yes, parliament can stop it happening and I'm sure would do, but by agreement of course. Such as delaying article 50 or the EU agreeing to a delay period for a specific valid reason.
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oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
10,422
14,609
West West Wales
if people are stockpiling it is because they are being told that there are going to be shortages therefore it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy
The issue seems to be that the people who care (mostly the patients) are inadequately reassured that there will not be shortages. Of the four makes of levothyroxine in the UK, three have been reported to be in short supply. The one that seems readily available is, ironically, the one that is not actually manufactured here but in Europe. It is also rejected by, I'd guess, over 70% of patients because it causes side-effects not caused by the other three makes.

Revealed: UK patients stockpile drugs in fear of no-deal Brexit
Doctors call for more transparency amid fears of shortages, especially of insulin
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/18/revealed-uk-patients-stockpile-drugs-in-fear-of-no-deal-brexit
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,260
30,648
no doubt Bosch will be lobbying hard on that one
If you mean the anti-dumping measure, I'm quite sure Bosch is a major instigator. It's what companies have always done, getting politicians to protect their markets from foreign competition. We in the UK have been notorious for doing the same by various means, including criminal.
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50Hertz

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 2, 2019
2,199
2,403
Yes, parliament can stop it happening and I'm sure would do, but by agreement of course. Such as delaying article 50 or the EU agreeing to a delay period for a specific valid reason.
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How would parliament stop it? Presumably a cross party proposal to cancel A50 before the deadline and then vote it through with a majority? I’m sure they would get the majority needed to do that.
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,260
30,648
How would parliament stop it? Presumably a cross party proposal to cancel A50 before the deadline and then vote it through with a majority? I’m sure they would get the majority needed to do that.
Yes, that's the basis of my confidence. The great majority of the House is totally opposed to No Deal and will do what it takes to prevent it.
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