Brexit, for once some facts.

[OxygenJames]

And we know why too , vote leave ran an immense targeted advertisement campaign in the final days using stolen data that skewed the result using illegal funding.
This should have nullified the whole thing

More complete b*******s. You lost. Get over it. Remain had ALL the extra money. The government spent £9m on a pro-remain leaflet.

 

[OxygenJames]

And you pick someone up on an additional full stop?

The latest 'punctuation guides' all report that use of the hyphen instead of a comma is fine. Though they tend to say no more than two a sentence - which I quite often break.

For somebody like yourself still living in the dark ages - I doubt you're up-to-date with stuff like that.

 

[OxygenJames]

They don't necessarily hit the engines. There was a clip on television earlier, I think it was this one:

https://petapixel.com/2018/10/08/this-is-what-a-drone-strike-would-do-to-an-airplane/

Could cause quite a lot of damage.

Yeah I saw that - seems they would cause more damage than a bird (or even 5 birds).

 

[OxygenJames]

Not so. Single party rule, law organised in such a way that community rights trample over individual rights . And dare I say it a common market covering 1 billion people in a very strict union of countries. The ruling party waxes and wanes it's" capitalism" as it suits their collective good.

Oh I don't doubt it's 'red' in that sense. But I was talking economics. It's like people who think Sweden or Norway are 'socialist'. They're not. They both use markets to set prices. That is the key. The moment you step away from that is the moment you destroy the economic bedrock.

 

[oyster]

btw - perhaps before you try to educate me you could start with yourself - and the basics of written English - like you don't put an extra full-stop after a question mark at the end of a sentence.

You're very welcome. Anytime.

Looks to me like an attempt at an
ellipsis
that has turned out wrongly.

 

[oldgroaner]

Yup - that's how it works. And we sell stuff we're good at doing - and leave what does not make a profit to people who CAN make a profit doing that. This is the global capitalism that has dragged us screaming and kicking to where we are now.

You are truly an idiot, as the company I worked for went bankrupt using the logic you imagine to be so wonderful.
It set up a manufacturing joint venture factory in China as the cost of manufacture are so much lower, then tried importing product from there to sell at the usual UK prices relying on it's reputation to sell what turned out to be inferior goods.
Result , pretty soon it lost so much market share it closed down, leaving a thriving company in China happily selling inferior goods into a huge home market.
That as you put it has dragged us screaming and kicking to where we are now.
Your ideas are both a danger to the country and to the world at large.

Capitalism when uncontrolled is very dangerous,it has it's points in the service of the nation, but it is dangerous when allowed to run riot.
And as we see every day it is reaching the point of endangering the future of life on this planet.

 

[oyster]

Probably mostly the law of unintended consequences. This issue is now gaining some publicity - self-evidently from the quote - but I wonder how many other issues are sitting there unmentioned, possibly unrealised even at this late hour?


Rugby union in limbo over prospect of no-deal Brexit
From recruitment to travel visas and a divide among Pro14 teams, exiting without a deal would have a significant impact on unions, tournament organisers, clubs, players and fans

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/dec/20/rugby-union-limbo-no-deal-brexit-the-breakdown

 

[oldgroaner]

Oh I don't doubt it's 'red' in that sense. But I was talking economics. It's like people who think Sweden or Norway are 'socialist'. They're not. They both use markets to set prices. That is the key. The moment you step away from that is the moment you destroy the economic bedrock.

Danidl was right

 

[oyster]

'Tis a pity that the ones who are set against no-deal have not already quit the government. Surely, even getting to the point at which no-deal is being so seriously discussed, is enough to highlight that they have to act to avoid it?

Brexit: David Gauke may quit cabinet if UK heads for no-deal
Justice secretary says it would be irresponsible for government to pursue no-deal

 

[Fingers]

Look at it from the viewpoint of a leave voter who wants this problem to go away.
How would it seem to them?

Interesting notion that Northern Ireland somehow has the right to eternal attachment to the mainland?
What happened to our right to decide we don't want them?
We aren't "theirs" to be told what we can and can't do are we?
So let me see, does that infer we are subject to the will of Northern Ireland? and not a Sovereign nation with the right to determine who we associate with?

So the tail wags the dog?
This is fun, all nonsense, but really quite mad.

What I am trying to illustrate is how this will appear to a died in the wool leave supporter who regards the Northern Ireland question as a "nuisance" to achieving Brexit.
Personally I'm happy to accept the rights of the population in the province, but there are other people who may well view the matter differently.
And if by any chance Corbyn becomes PM one of his first acts would very likely be to give Northern Ireland a referendum on his cherished reunification notion.
And that would be the end of Tommie's little empire!

Talking of died in the wool (sic)

Had anyone checked on the liar recently? It's not like Tom to not be posting random memes about Jesus or insults.

I hope the milk bottles collecting outside his bedsit are just because he forgot to let the milkman know he was spending Christmas in Brussels for one last yuletide with the EU.

 

[Zlatan]

'Tis a pity that the ones who are set against no-deal have not already quit the government. Surely, even getting to the point at which no-deal is being so seriously discussed, is enough to highlight that they have to act to avoid it?

Brexit: David Gauke may quit cabinet if UK heads for no-deal
Justice secretary says it would be irresponsible for government to pursue no-deal

He, ll be planning his new garden then because no deal its going to be.
Political landscape has changed, thought it was May, s deal or remain. Its not any longer. Its May's deal or leave. Corbyn's woeful collapse and performance has guaranteed it.
I had wondered about Tom. Hope he is OK. Much as I totally disagree with his manner, insults and politics his heart is in right place. He does champion the under privileged.

 

[Zlatan]

Look at it from the viewpoint of a leave voter who wants this problem to go away.
How would it seem to them?

Interesting notion that Northern Ireland somehow has the right to eternal attachment to the mainland?
What happened to our right to decide we don't want them?
We aren't "theirs" to be told what we can and can't do are we?
So let me see, does that infer we are subject to the will of Northern Ireland? and not a Sovereign nation with the right to determine who we associate with?

So the tail wags the dog?
This is fun, all nonsense, but really quite mad.

What I am trying to illustrate is how this will appear to a died in the wool leave supporter who regards the Northern Ireland question as a "nuisance" to achieving Brexit.
Personally I'm happy to accept the rights of the population in the province, but there are other people who may well view the matter differently.
And if by any chance Corbyn becomes PM one of his first acts would very likely be to give Northern Ireland a referendum on his cherished reunification notion.
And that would be the end of Tommie's little empire!

You are completely missing the point OG. NI is part and parcel of "us". There is a NI assembly and there has been decentralisation of power away from Westminster but there is no us and them. They are part of us all , until they decide democratically otherwise. We can't suddenly decide, get lost you aren't part of us. If we could Hull would be on list next.
It's problematic but a solution will be found.(for NI, not Hull)

 

[Zlatan]

Out of interest, how many of you staunch remainers actually voted for Tory or Labour at last GE? Or a better question any of you didn't?
Both parties had leave in manifestos.
Seems rather odd that remainers are still moaning having
A)Lost referendum.
B)In all likely hood voted to leave at last GE...
Mathematically it must be a tiny group who didn't vote to leave..???
Perhaps all those leavers are thick and didn't understand what they voted for at the last GE??
Wait for it now... All the leavers..
"No, I didn't vote Tory or Labour"
Vince Cable then????

 

[OxygenJames]

Capitalism when uncontrolled is very dangerous,it has it's points in the service of the nation, but it is dangerous when allowed to run riot.
And as we see every day it is reaching the point of endangering the future of life on this planet.

Yes you're completely right - 'capitalism' has to go hand in hand with the rule of law and appropriate regulations - uncontrolled it is as you say very dangerous.

The danger to the planet is not the free exchange of goods and services for money (which is what capitalism actually comes down to when correctly regulated) - its dogma. It's thinking you're always right - to the point where you'll destroy the entire planet to be right. Whether its on the left or the right - dogma is the problem.

 

[OxygenJames]

Danidl was right

God you are such a dense animal at times.

 

[flecc]

They are part of us all , until they decide democratically otherwise. We can't suddenly decide, get lost you aren't part of us.

Not so, we can cast N.I. adrift any time we choose. There's a vast amount of precedent of giving up areas, transferring areas to other administrations etc. These often even ordered by those having no involvements in areas, often against the will of many of the residents. The Ukraine was created that way a hundred years ago and grown many times since. The Middle Eastern countries largely defined that way, and of course part of the Balkans very recently.
.

 

[Danidl]

You are completely missing the point OG. NI is part and parcel of "us". There is a NI assembly and there has been decentralisation of power away from Westminster but there is no us and them. They are part of us all , until they decide democratically otherwise. We can't suddenly decide, get lost you aren't part of us. If we could Hull would be on list next.
It's problematic but a solution will be found.(for NI, not Hull)

I do agree with you Zlatan, and in this we must differfrom Oxygen.. If NI were located in China,and the Central committee wished to turn it into a sheep farm or a hydroelectric project,they would have no difficulty in shifting the 1.5 million, without recourse to legal privilege. It is easier to get things done,when the state has all the power. I must however disagree in that there is no NI assembly,nor has there been one for over two years.

 

[Danidl]

God you are such a dense animal at times.

..would that be classed as blasfamy?.

 

[Zlatan]

Not so, we can cast N.I. adrift any time we choose. There's a vast amount of precedent of giving up areas, transferring areas to other administrations etc. These often even ordered by those having no involvements in areas, often against the will of many of the residents. The Ukraine was created that way a hundred years ago and grown many times since. The Middle Eastern countries largely defined that way, and of course part of the Balkans very recently.
.

Right that's it. Hull is gone...
My pardon Danidl, I, d assumed assembly was suspended and not disbanded. Its not to be reinstated??

Nobody answered the voting question.???

 

[Danidl]

Yes you're completely right - 'capitalism' has to go hand in hand with the rule of law and appropriate regulations - uncontrolled it is as you say very dangerous.

The danger to the planet is not the free exchange of goods and services for money (which is what capitalism actually comes down to when correctly regulated) - its dogma. It's thinking you're always right - to the point where you'll destroy the entire planet to be right. Whether its on the left or the right - dogma is the problem.

Nicely put.. but who does the regulating? And for what purpose?
Dogma??? Slavery is the free exchange of services for money. The divine right of kings was a dogma ,the tyranny of the free market another dogma, the Manifest Destiny of the USA another Dogma, The greatest good for the greatest number another dogma. Nationalism in all its shades .my country right or wrong..another Dogma. Even My EU right or wrong is yet further dogma.except funnily I have never heard that one.