Brexit, for once some facts.

oldgroaner

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From Prospect Magazine
"
Zac Goldsmith voted to leave the EU but, writing in Saturday’s Telegraph he said that, had the choice been between May’s deal and remaining in the EU, he would have chosen to Remain. Boris Johnson, too, has said the deal is worse than remaining. And so has influential MEP Daniel Hannan. How would they vote if confronted with a choice between May’s deal and remaining?

All things being equal, but subject to the outcome of a late Supreme Court challenge, the Court of Justice of the European Union will on Tuesday next week hear argument on this very question, in a case I have brought alongside a cross-party group of six Scottish parliamentarians: Joanna Cherry MP, Andy Wightman MSP, Alyn Smith MEP, Ross Greer MSP, David Martin MEP, and Catherine Stihler MEP.

There are three possibilities. The Court of Justice might say we’re stuck with the decision parliament made in March 2017 to leave the EU: Article 50 is not reversible. Or it might say parliament can reverse its decision to leave up until the date of our departure if the European Council agrees (Donald Tusk has indicated the EU would be prepared to give this consent). Or it might say we can revoke without the need for consent—the ideal outcome for those who believe that the best place to take decisions about the United Kingdom’s future is in our parliament.

And MPs really need to know. “Life,” as HL Mencken aptly put it, “is a constant oscillation between the sharp horns of dilemmas.” All parliamentarians must weigh the difficult choices before them. If Article 50 cannot be reversed, and Remain is off the table, then MPs, even those who believe May’s deal to be the lovechild of false promises and ugly xenophobia, may find themselves compelled to support it.

Next Tuesday will be a day to remember.
 

oldgroaner

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Its not important for attacking Europe of course but globally they are strategic.

It's really not a debate tbh. Anyone can see the importance of having bases away from your own mainland if you're a player in Global affairs.
But we are not, we are mercenary lapdogs of the USA
We haven't been a "Global Player" since Suez and we never will be again.

There is no way we can justify the expense of keeping them .If the Americans want to use their Scrap yard dog, they can provide space for us in one of their bases, as we did for them for so long.

We certainly are in no position to go back to the days of Rule Britannia.
 
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Fingers

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I suppose you could be right in that but only if you are a fan of warmongering or perhaps had some desire to revisit the Falklands.

For all normal, inter-continental travel purposes we tend to use aircraft nowadays; perhaps you've heard of those?

I'm a little perplexed by the expression, 'a player in Global affairs'. What does that mean exactly? I can name hundreds of countries but I'm not certain about which of those might be described as global players. Is it only a club for countries with nuclear weapons….or perhaps boats and aircraft - is there some definition of which I am ignorant?

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Tom
You're hatred and contempt of this country is so obvious.

And more childish insults I see.

I'm guessing this is what happened to other posters who chose to have a difference of opinion with you and Martha?

They just get bored and ahem. Leave?

Anyway. Being a permanent member of the UN Security council lets you say you are a player in Global affairs.

Here endeth todays lesson in world affiars.
 
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Woosh

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Number 10 is suggesting that the “alternative arrangements” could also come into play and, critically, could include a technological solution to keeping the border open.

That will shut up some of TM's critics.
 
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oldgroaner

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You're hatred and contempt of this country is so obvious.

And more childish insults I see.

I'm guessing this is what happened to other posters who chose to have a difference of opinion with you and Martha?

They just get bored and ahem. Leave?

Anyway. Being a permanent member of the UN Security council lets you say you are a player in Global affairs.

Here endeth todays lesson in world affiars.
Can you really be as dense as you appear?

I wonder why you equate being rational about the damage your vote for Brexit is doing to the country equates with a person who doesn't want it to be harmed making them someone who hates it? and how wanting to avoid it's future being thrown on the trash heap equates with contempt?
As a childish insult that has to be the gravest one yet.

You are the one treating the country with contempt and hatred, look around at the state it is now in and the chaos ahead because of what you did, and still you are unwilling to admit it was in fact a dangerous and stupid thing to set in motion.

Why do you actually want to harm not just this nation now, but in the future? are you by any chance working to push some damaging agenda as a Agent provocateur? no of course not, that can be dismissed as you would need intelligence to do that.
It follows we have to assume you were taken in by lies and promises and a red bus and you just put your cross at random on the referendum form as a protest.

What were you expressing when you voted to leave the EU, do you actually have even the remotest idea? if so let's hear from you what made you think it was a good choice.

But you won't will you

You keep evading the question because you have no answers, and have only come on here to make a rather amateur effort to disrupt a debate you haven't the intelligence and knowledge to indulge in.

BTW Sitting as a permanent member of the UN Security Council is a throwback completely out of touch will reality in the same way you are.


And by the way what is this supposed to mean?
"Here endeth todays lesson in world affiars"
Ignoring the typo, your knowledge of them is none existent and you keep proving that.

Without intending to, you are providing a comedy element that increases the popularity of the debate, so do keep posting.
 
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oldtom

Esteemed Pedelecer
Being a permanent member of the UN Security council lets you say you are a player in Global affairs.
Right! So, I can check that somewhere? The criteria must be written down somewhere so that everyone knows that you can't be a 'global player' if you're called Germany….or Italy or Ireland…(yawn).

You know, I could be mistaken and by all means call me cynical but it strikes me that the 5 permanent members of the UN Security Council all just happen to be equipped with nuclear arsenals. Just coincidence?

You really are badly informed, aren't you? It's almost as if you just make up stuff because you cannot justify in any shape or form why 'Brexit' is a good thing. You are looking increasingly stupid with this kind of nonsense but I can't say I'm surprised. You have condemned all the reasonable arguments against 'Brexit' and vilified the people who support the view of the people of the UK wishing to remain in the EU.

In pre-war Germany, their hatred of truth, certain ethnic groups and enlightenment led them to burn books - you choose to proffer spurious opinions in your attempt to decry the message that 'Brexit' is a threat to the British people, while purveying unsupportable nonsense in this forum.

Try sticking to facts which are proven or provable and a good place to start would be to explain, as previously asked of you, exactly how, when and where 'Brexit' will provide benefits.

Tom
 

Fingers

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Feb 9, 2016
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Can you really be as dense as you appear?

I wonder why you equate being rational about the damage your vote for Brexit is doing to the country equates with a person who doesn't want it to be harmed making them someone who hates it? and how wanting to avoid it's future being thrown on the trash heap equates with contempt?
As a childish insult that has to be the gravest one yet.

You are the one treating the country with contempt and hatred, look around at the stage it is now in because of what you did, and still you are unwilling to admit it was in fact a dangerous and stupid thing to set in motion.

Why do you actually want to harm not just this nation now, but in the future?
Did you just put your cross at random on the referendum form?
What were you expressing when you voted to leave the EU, do you actually have even the remotest idea, so let's hear from you what made you think it was a good idea.
But you won't will you

You keep evading the question because you have no answers, and have only come on here to make a rather amateur effort to disrupt a debate you haven't the intelligence and knowledge to indulge in.

Sitting as a permanent member of the UN Security Council is a throwback completely out of touch will reality in the same way you are.


And by the way what is this supposed to mean?
"Here endeth todays lesson in world affiars"
Ignoring the typo your knowledge of them is none existent and you keep proving that.
Withut intending to, you are providing a comedy element that increases the popularity of the debate, so do keep posting.

I will don't worry. This is a source of amusement.

Ps. I've bein putting little typos in every post for a while now. Well since on of you or martha did the litttle tick thing. ;)

Lttle things etc...
 

tommie

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Number 10 is suggesting that the “alternative arrangements” could also come into play and, critically, could include a technological solution to keeping the border open.

That will shut up some of TM's critics.
Oh, very good No 10, straight from the School of Slow Learners,
she was told of this ages ago and was supported by the Irish tax authorities, our HMRC, the DUP et al..

The brexiteers have been saying this for months. Pretty much accepted that the whole issue is being weaponised by Varadkar looking to get a rebate from the EU.
Considering the minuscule amount of trade between ROI and Ulster, it's plain this is a faux issue from EU and fueled by their puppet in Dublin.

However!
Would it be any coincidence that the DUP abstain on the finance bill and suddenly today the cabinet are informed a 'technology solution' could mean no hard border without a backstop. A technology solution that Leavers have called for over the last 2 years, but Dominic Raab failed to consider.
 
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oldgroaner

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I will don't worry. This is a source of amusement.

Ps. I've bein putting little typos in every post for a while now. Well since on of you or martha did the litttle tick thing. ;)

Lttle things etc...
Who is Martha?
And apart from wanting to act the fool why have you stayed on here to work against the credibility of the cause you pretend to support.?
In that you score 100%
 
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Woosh

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The brexiteers have been saying this for months.
what No 10 means to say is 'when the technical solution is available'.
Until then, NI remains in the customs union.
 
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oldtom

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I will don't worry. This is a source of amusement.

Ps. I've bein putting little typos in every post for a while now. Well since on of you or martha did the litttle tick thing. ;)

Lttle things etc...
Nope, you misunderstand; it is you who is a source of amusement rather than the forum and mis-spelling words here and there is no substitute for genuine humour, nor does it endear you to to those readers with an IQ in triple figures.

You really are a consummate images.jpeg


Tom
 
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Fingers

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Nope, you misunderstand; it is you who is a source of amusement rather than the forum and mis-spelling words here and there is no substitute for genuine humour, nor does it endear you to to those readers with an IQ in triple figures.

You really are a consummate View attachment 27781


Tom

I love thet you think people come on here to read you.

Lying Tommy and his fantasies.
 

oldgroaner

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I love thet you think people come on here to read you.

Lying Tommy and his fantasies.
Switch on that lonely brain cell for a moment, why do you think they come on? after all the thread has had almost a million hits, and we have only encountered a handful of dullards like yourself intent on making themselves unpopular in over two years.

Bit of a pathetic effort for a so called majority when their cause is going down in flames due to the Champions you voted for fighting like starving rats in a sack.

Can't you find something to say that will encourage them rather than leave them thinking that they are associating themselves with people like yourself lacking sufficient wits to be able to debate the most important subject facing the nation at this time, and therefore having to resort to acting like a parody of Boris Johnson?

Surely the leave campaign deserves someone capable of presenting it's case,not acting the goat.
 
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