Brexit, for once some facts.

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
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Does anyone think any of our current or former brexit negotiators are (or were) competent?
no. it's because our side doesn't listen to what the other side of the table has said or is saying.
Our side, prompted by the right wing press, continues in the belief that the EU will have to meet us half way. They don't.
We think we are a super power, their economic strength is 4 times ours. We have 6 months, they have time on their side. They simply don't have to meet us half way. We are roughly 10% of the club, they are 90% of the club, they may give us 10%-20%, not 50%.
 

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
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Labour has just thrown away any chance of a victory in the next GE.

Pandering to the metropolitan voters who don’t even want Corbyn in charge with a second referendum is not going through get them in power.

Idiots. We’ve now got these idiots in charge for another decade.

What a mess. How did Corbyn allow this to happen. Guy is so weak it’s scary.
Very imaginative and as usual way off the mark.
Only a fool would seek power in this country for the next five years!

The secret of Labour policy right now is to clamour vigorously and enthusiastically for power and dodge it and any attached blame at the very last moment.
This is a proven and trusty ploy demonstrated by major Tory buffoons
  1. Cameron: who broke his word and fled after the Referendum
  2. Boris: Who did the same thing
  3. Gove: who's wife wouldn't let him play
  4. Farage: who went back down to the pub
Corbyn isn't to blame, the gullible Tory voters are, he is after all only in opposition, and after the shambles the Conservatives have made in all things they have done Labour don't have enough experience to make a bigger balls up.
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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It's just been announced that increases in our life expectancy are reducing and they've now stopped. All was well with it increasing up to 2015, but since then it's been falling with higher than usual numbers of deaths. In Europe that's almost unique to the UK, our EU partners still have rising life expectancy

In 2016 we had the referendum and the country marginally chose to leave the EU, causing the country to split into two roughly equal opposing factions with rising stress and dissatisfaction.

Since most other factors like winter flu, weather changes etc are common to our neighbouring countries, maybe the threat of Brexit and worry about it is killing people now. ;)

Either that or the current UK governance is doing the killing, and austerity and it's effect on the elderly is already being blamed in some quarters since the elderly are now dying at a faster rate.
.
 
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oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
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It's just been announced that increases in our life expectancy are reducing and they've now stopped. All was well with it increasing up to 2015, but since then it's been falling with higher than usual numbers of deaths. In Europe that's almost unique to the UK, our EU partners still have rising life expectancy

In 2016 we had the referendum and the country marginally chose to leave the EU, causing the country to split into two roughly equal opposing factions with rising stress and dissatisfaction.

Since most other factors like winter flu, weather changes etc are common to our neighbouring countries, maybe the threat of Brexit and worry about it is killing people now. ;)

Either that or the current UK governance is doing the killing, and austerity and it's effect on the elderly is already being blamed in some quarters since the elderly are now dying at a faster rate.
.
"This is clear evidence of a Government initiative creating a Brexit bonus for the NHS"

(Ouija board message from Harold Frederick Shipman Md ) o_O
 

oldtom

Esteemed Pedelecer
This is how someone I know well, recently taking an interest in politics, sees things at the present time. This is from a while back but he has just read it. Nonetheless, it's still entirely valid:

Corbyn will be the next PM if you ignore the tripe peddled out by the right wing media!

Here’s what I’m really struggling to understand. All I’ve ever heard from people, for years, is:

“bloody bankers and their bonuses”

“bloody rich and their offshore tax havens “

“bloody politicians with their lying and second homes”

“bloody corporations paying less tax than me”

“bloody Establishment, they’re all in it together”

“it’ll never change, there’s no point in voting”

And quite rightly so, I said all the same things.

But then someone comes along that’s different. He upsets the bankers and the rich. The Tory politicians hate him along with most of the labour politicians. The corporations throw more money at the politicians to keep him quiet. And the Establishment is visibly shaken. I’ve never seen the Establishment so genuinely scared of a single person.

So the media arm of the establishment gets involved. Theresa phones Rupert asking what he can do, and he tells her to keep her mouth shut, don’t do the live debate, he’ll sort this out. So the media goes into overdrive with:

“she’s strong and stable”

“he’s a clown”

“he’s not a leader”

“look he can’t even control his own party”

“he’ll ruin the economy”

“how’s he gonna pay for it all?!”

“he’s a terrorist sympathiser, burn him, burn the terrorist sympathiser”

And what do we? We’ve waited forever for an honest politician to come along but instead of getting behind him we bow to the establishment like good little workers. They whistle and we do a little dance for them. We run around like hypnotised robots repeating headlines we’ve read, all nodding and agreeing. Feeling really proud of ourselves because we think we’ve came up with our very own first political opinion. But we haven’t, we haven’t come up with anything. This is how you tell. No matter where someone lives in the country, they’re repeating the same headlines, word for word. From Cornwall to Newcastle people are saying:

“he’s a clown”

“he’s a threat to the country”

“she’s strong and stable”

“he’ll take us back to the 70s”

And there’s nothing else, there’s no further opinion. There’s no evidence apart from one radio 5 interview that isn’t even concrete evidence, he actually condemns the violence of both sides in the interview. There’s no data or studies or official reports to back anything up. Try and think really hard why you think he’s a clown, other than the fact he looks like a geography teacher (no offence geography teachers) because he hasn’t done anything clownish from what I’ve seen.

And you’re not on this planet if you think the establishment and the media aren’t all in it together.

You think Richard Branson, who’s quietly winning NHS contracts, wants Corbyn in?

You think Rupert Murdoch, who’s currently trying to widen his media monopoly by buying sky outright, wants Jeremy in?

You think the Barclay brothers, with their offshore residencies, want him in?

You think Philip Green, who stole all the pensions from BHS workers and claims his wife owns Top Shop because she lives in Monaco, wants Corbyn in?

You think the politicians, both Labour and Tory, with their second homes and alcohol paid for by us, want him in?

You think Starbucks, paying near zero tax, wants him in?

You think bankers, with their multi million pound bonuses, want him in?

And do you think they don’t have contact with May? Or with the media? You honestly think that these millionaires and billionaires are the sort of people that go “ah well, easy come easy go, it was nice while it lasted”?? I wouldn’t be if my personal fortune was at risk, I’d be straight on the phone to Theresa May or Rupert Murdoch demanding this gets sorted immediately.

He lives in a normal house like us and uses the bus just like us. He’s fought for justice and peace for nearly 40 years. He has no career ambitions. And his seat is untouchable. That’s one of the greatest testimonies. No one comes close to removing him from his constituency, election after election.

His Manifesto is fully costed. It all adds up, yes there’s some borrowing but that’s just to renationalise the railway, you know we already subsidise them and they make profit yeah? One more time… WE subsidise the railway companies and they walk away with a profit, just try and grasp the level of **** taking going on there.

Unlike the Tory manifesto with a £9 billion hole, their figures don’t even add up.

And it benefits all of us, young, old, working, disabled, everyone. The only people it hurts are the establishment, the rich, the bankers, the top 5% highest earners.

Good, screw them, it’s long overdue.

Tom
 

gray198

Esteemed Pedelecer
Apr 4, 2012
1,592
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Very imaginative and as usual way off the mark.
Only a fool would seek power in this country for the next five years!

The secret of Labour policy right now is to clamour vigorously and enthusiastically for power and dodge it and any attached blame at the very last moment.
This is a proven and trusty ploy demonstrated by major Tory buffoons
  1. Cameron: who broke his word and fled after the Referendum
  2. Boris: Who did the same thing
  3. Gove: who's wife wouldn't let him play
  4. Farage: who went back down to the pub
Corbyn isn't to blame, the gullible Tory voters are, he is after all only in opposition, and after the shambles the Conservatives have made in all things they have done Labour don't have enough experience to make a bigger balls up.
are you a spin doctor?????
 
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oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
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So she claims to know what is in the national interest? I find that extremely hard to believe.


Theresa May rules out an autumn general election before Brexit

Election will not be in nation’s interest says prime minister at start of New York visit
 

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
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The idiots in the Sun are at it again
"
THE SUN SAYS
Theresa May’s promise to make post-Brexit Britain pro-business will focus minds in Brussels


The PM and the Chancellor need to create a vibrant and dynamic economy in response to the lunacy of John McDonnell and his Marxist vision

Do they really believe this? how come they haven't already?
And the EU will laugh at such a childish threat.

And this too
Brexit boost
Theresa May vows to slash taxes to lowest rate in G20 to make Britain an economic powerhouse after Brexit


The PM has been in New York speaking to business leaders and Government officials from around the world

And who will pay for this? the ill, sick and those in need already of course, and even if it is succesful it will only mean even more of what little industry we have being colonised by foreign companies and the profits going out overseas.
Plus of course into offshore Tax Havens.

For the low tax will only be for business after all.
And anything that benefits the Public will be cut to the bone.
What she is proposing proves that Austerity was a lie, and yet it will be far worse if she goes ahead with this.
 

oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
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Theresa May vows to slash taxes to lowest rate in G20 to make Britain an economic powerhouse after Brexit
I have written before that small countries can be picked off one against an another by whoever wishes to. It is the scale of the EU (and, indeed, China and the USA) which gives some protection, some fightback.

UK not in any major organisation will be a prime target.

Lowering taxes leaves you with less tax revenue.
 

oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
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This sounds like pudding with rather an excess of eggs, but maybe not? Note the extra paperwork claims when the government has apparently been reducing red tape perpetually (they claim!). How can they wantonly impose such an intolerable burden?

I know the issues have been posted many times - just the latest iteration.

Customs delays of 30 minutes 'will bankrupt 1 in 10 firms', say bosses

Supply chain chiefs at 1,300 surveyed firms say firms are already stockpiling parts amid fear of no-deal Brexit


https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/sep/26/no-deal-brexit-minor-port-delays-30-minutes-bankrupt-1-in-10-uk-firms
 

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
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I have written before that small countries can be picked off one against an another by whoever wishes to. It is the scale of the EU (and, indeed, China and the USA) which gives some protection, some fightback.

UK not in any major organisation will be a prime target.

Lowering taxes leaves you with less tax revenue.
Less tax income means less benefts, and since many people who are in work also get income support (which they can kiss godbye to)
in an economy as introvert as ours that relies more in internally circulating money that actual money earning exports, we will end up with less customers being able to afford buying goods that are being manufactured without taking out bigger and bigger loans.

When they stop buying, the proverbial hits the fan, and big trouble develops.
And importing cheap Chinese goods has already helped prevent the regrowth of our industries , so these so called "Trade Deals" are not likely to help the situation.

But look on the Bright side, this is what the Brexit Voters wanted, so they can't complain can they?
Actually it isn't as the Remainers are expecting this sort of downward trend so won't be too surprised.

Where the trouble will come from is the Brexit voters, who will feel they have been swindled by a bunch of traitors.
In that at least they will be correct.
 
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oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
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This sounds like pudding with rather an excess of eggs, but maybe not? Note the extra paperwork claims when the government has apparently been reducing red tape perpetually (they claim!). How can they wantonly impose such an intolerable burden?

I know the issues have been posted many times - just the latest iteration.

Customs delays of 30 minutes 'will bankrupt 1 in 10 firms', say bosses

Supply chain chiefs at 1,300 surveyed firms say firms are already stockpiling parts amid fear of no-deal Brexit


https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/sep/26/no-deal-brexit-minor-port-delays-30-minutes-bankrupt-1-in-10-uk-firms
I can report good news for these unfortunates, the busiest Government Department will help them
https://www.gov.uk/bankruptcy
No doubt we can look forward to an announcement that they are Stockpiling the appropriate paperwork, unquestionably there will be job vacancies there too
Another Brexit Bonus
 
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oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
10,422
14,609
West West Wales
I can report good news for these unfortunates, the busiest Government Department will help them
https://www.gov.uk/bankruptcy
No doubt we can look forward to an announcement that they are Stockpiling the appropriate paperwork, unquestionably there will be job vacancies there too
Another Brexit Bonus
That department will probably lose all too many staff who will depart to the various non-government insolvency practitioners and the like. After all, they will be in a position to pay higher wages and there will be much demand.

(Will the UK recognise EU insolvency practitioner credentials after brexit? Perhaps we can get some from Romania, Poland, ...)

The queue for the government's bankruptcy department's services could approach the motorway lorry queues in length... :)
 

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
20,552
16,974
Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
Corbyn isn't to blame,
JC is partly to blame. He forced Labour MPs to vote for triggering A50 before the issue is better understood.
He has made just as may U-turns as TM.
 

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
23,461
32,613
80
That department will probably lose all too many staff who will depart to the various non-government insolvency practitioners and the like. After all, they will be in a position to pay higher wages and there will be much demand.

(Will the UK recognise EU insolvency practitioner credentials after brexit? Perhaps we can get some from Romania, Poland, ...)

The queue for the government's bankruptcy department's services could approach the motorway lorry queues in length... :)
And they'll have to install more toilets :eek:
 
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