That's kind of you,but I'm not so sure. Way back then I went on the march against the war,but remember a lot supported it. Rightly or wrongly almost everything that's happened since seems to me bout populist politicians and the public getting taken in,including the referendum.
Brexit, for once some facts.
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And I bet each of us is a cameo/microcosm of rolls Royce. Any of us that have say half a million pounds worth of property in the UK have just lost 100k in international purchasing power/collateral.
Time for a sitrep.
There is a possibility of being either a Satellite Client state of two large organisations
And the Americans are likely to scupper new Trident missiles as they are hardly likely to want us having such weapons when we are best friends with China, are they?
We are about to witness a "Smoke and Mirrors" Budget from the same party that brought us "Austerity" and record Debt Levels, to Reset the economy.
Now the question is if they were lying about the economy in the past, what are the chances of them telling the truth now?
Boris is getting right up the noses of the Brexit leave voters with his pro EU speeches which appear to make him look like he was a remain fan all along.
Isn't this all Fun?
There is a possibility of being either a Satellite Client state of two large organisations
- The EU
- Communist China.
And the Americans are likely to scupper new Trident missiles as they are hardly likely to want us having such weapons when we are best friends with China, are they?
We are about to witness a "Smoke and Mirrors" Budget from the same party that brought us "Austerity" and record Debt Levels, to Reset the economy.
Now the question is if they were lying about the economy in the past, what are the chances of them telling the truth now?
Boris is getting right up the noses of the Brexit leave voters with his pro EU speeches which appear to make him look like he was a remain fan all along.
Isn't this all Fun?
I bought the Contest new and kept it 8 years,I delivered it from Holland down the Channel,across Biscay,down the Spanish and Portuguese coast and into the Med,stopping for long periods in the Channel Islands,la Rochelle,Cascais,then Barcelona and San Remo.
For a couple it was a very safe boat,it had a beaut aft cabin,the forward accommodation was a bit tight,ok for crew.
It needed a breeze to get it going,needing more than 8 knots,by modern boat design it had a very small cockpit, I sailed it in 50 knots of wind into St Peter Port,Guernsey,the only boat stupid enough to be out,but with a strong crew it was safe.
I don't like the latest Contests,too contemporary for my taste but the wider cockpit and twin wheels make them easier to sail.
After a lifetime of sailboats,mostly race boats,my wife persuaded me to buy a trawler style displacement motor yacht (Selene 62)the sort of motor boat that an ex sailboat owner would be proud to own,it has accommodation that I would need 100 foot sailboat to match,my wife and I handle it with care easily,I don't regret the change to motor,although my yachting friends think I have swallowed the anchor.
Still enjoying boating,just different.
Hope that is of interest.
KudosDave
I can see that derf. Thing is many supported blair's war because he was believed over WMD. To be honest I was genuinely shocked when none were found and even more when it became obvious their existence was complete fabrication..that is beyond misleading public. That ssingle event is having repurcussions both in middle east and our belief in politicians now.I have none...in any of them...but May seems best of bad bunch.
Sorry Derf, thought your contest question was aimed at me. Never heard of a Contest, used to crew on a Contessa 32 years ago...afraid I,m type Yacht sailors don't really speak to ( smilie) . Obsessed windsurfer but had a nice seaworthy Rib berthed at St Cyp upto a couple of years ago.
Its anything on water Kudos...once hooked you don't care. Wind , water, forecasts and getting to sea have completely dominated my life past 45 years !!!
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Very useful feedback. Somewhere along the line we all compromise I suspect. I'm not ready to switch to mobo, or windsurfing tbh,but admittedly a bav is not a pinnacle of aesthetic beauty,or sailing,to say the least,though it has a big cockpit. It's good to hear re contest,I nearly got a rival,but it's definitely not relevant to brexit.
I note there was some disagreement with my view expressed in the BBC thread, some believing the BBC is an organisation populated by left-wing loonies...I think that was the expression...or similar.
Obviously, I realise that for some people, there is nothing will change their mind about mattters, many even disbelieving the evidence of their own eyes and ears. In the case of the BBC, I'd love to know the identities of all these left-wing political employees as I can't recall noticing any in the last few years.
That said, those who actually believe that the BBC is even-handed or socialist in its editorial position might wish to read this article. It's only one article but with several strings. I wonder how its analysis and conclusions fit with the left-wing loony theory? Dated back in May this year:
http://www.thecanary.co/2016/05/06/the-abysmal-local-elections-coverage-shows-the-bbc-has-moved-beyond-bias-to-pure-propaganda/
If I were someone who believed the BBC is an entity for good, for democracy or fairness, or simply honest, factual news reporting, I'd be very worried.
On the matter of 'Brexit' and what comes next, I have been criticised for raising the spectre of rising fascism being a greater threat than leaving the EU. You might like to read this chap's view:
https://medium.com/@theonlytoby/history-tells-us-what-will-happen-next-with-brexit-trump-a3fefd154714#.gyka1cvkb
The 'leave' supporters really don't like the association I make with the tattooed, skinhead thugs proudly wearing and brandishing union clothing, flags and banners, being disrespectful to and intimidating immigrants already in the UK. Those people I have described proudly claim to be patriots but they are not - they are simply racists answering the call from fascist politicians who always appeal to the simpletons, thugs and anti-social elements of society.
If there are any in this forum to whom that association applies, I say, 'If the cap fits, wear it!' However, if you believe you are undeserving of such a slight, I say, 'It goes with the territory - you chose to link arms in common cause with the nastiest morons in British society and by your friends, you shall be known.'
The intransigence of those who favour a divorce from the EU, regardless of any consequences, means that I realise that none of the content I have provided for information will probably make a shred of difference to those people. That really doesn't matter to me but as the most prolific poster on the thread, OG, as well as yours truly have stated more than once, let's initiate the Article 50 procedure - we're democrats; we lost the vote, so let's get cracking with it.
Tom
Obviously, I realise that for some people, there is nothing will change their mind about mattters, many even disbelieving the evidence of their own eyes and ears. In the case of the BBC, I'd love to know the identities of all these left-wing political employees as I can't recall noticing any in the last few years.
That said, those who actually believe that the BBC is even-handed or socialist in its editorial position might wish to read this article. It's only one article but with several strings. I wonder how its analysis and conclusions fit with the left-wing loony theory? Dated back in May this year:
http://www.thecanary.co/2016/05/06/the-abysmal-local-elections-coverage-shows-the-bbc-has-moved-beyond-bias-to-pure-propaganda/
If I were someone who believed the BBC is an entity for good, for democracy or fairness, or simply honest, factual news reporting, I'd be very worried.
On the matter of 'Brexit' and what comes next, I have been criticised for raising the spectre of rising fascism being a greater threat than leaving the EU. You might like to read this chap's view:
https://medium.com/@theonlytoby/history-tells-us-what-will-happen-next-with-brexit-trump-a3fefd154714#.gyka1cvkb
The 'leave' supporters really don't like the association I make with the tattooed, skinhead thugs proudly wearing and brandishing union clothing, flags and banners, being disrespectful to and intimidating immigrants already in the UK. Those people I have described proudly claim to be patriots but they are not - they are simply racists answering the call from fascist politicians who always appeal to the simpletons, thugs and anti-social elements of society.
If there are any in this forum to whom that association applies, I say, 'If the cap fits, wear it!' However, if you believe you are undeserving of such a slight, I say, 'It goes with the territory - you chose to link arms in common cause with the nastiest morons in British society and by your friends, you shall be known.'
The intransigence of those who favour a divorce from the EU, regardless of any consequences, means that I realise that none of the content I have provided for information will probably make a shred of difference to those people. That really doesn't matter to me but as the most prolific poster on the thread, OG, as well as yours truly have stated more than once, let's initiate the Article 50 procedure - we're democrats; we lost the vote, so let's get cracking with it.
Tom
Attachments
I agree with what you say in principle. The honest caveat is that Im not brave enough to embrace complete financial self destruction for the sake of that in principal agreement. I believe the pound will take a pounding that will make zimbabwe look like an attractive proposition of we trigger article 50 immediately. but there is also,to repeat what has been said many times here,the fact that 2% majority does not necessarily represent an adequate mandate for such fundamental constitutional change. And there are all the lies of the campaign.
So how do we arrive at a solution that suits / unites both camps ??
If we don't leave what are consequences ? We,ve spent hours debating consequences of leaving ...
Is there a solution that suits all ? I doubt it but then again I don't see consequences of leaving being at all catastrophic...
Ps thought it had been a 4% majority..agreed not massive but significant. ( 48% versus 52%) Personally don't think that would change on a second referendum even if we had one.
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There is the old English tradition of fudging iout I.e. manipulating "facts" so that everyone feels happy,or in this case just safely short off catastrophically unhappy. I guess we'll all move on after,with all due respect and I sincerely don't mean to be controversial,brexit doesn't happen,having sustained the damage we have and noted that some have a grievance with the wrong establishment (is directed anger that should have been aimed at the Tories at the EU). I sincerely hope no one forgets the insincerity of the likes of Boris or gove or farage.
Could be right...lets just hope folk can see sense in other sides arguments ...
It has divided country more than anything I can remember , thought I,d never say that as I was working/ living in a mining town during miners strike.
I hope we remember Cameron / Osbourne for what they did..( and didn't) Cant think of any other place of employment where they would not have been simply dismissed for gross in competence.
I heard Hammond saying that he was negotiating a free trade deal with China and the U.K. Just cannot see that happening the Chinese have massive import duties on anything UK to China,that includes such essentials as Scotch Whisky and Bentley cars,I am told that the duty is 100%,cannot see the Chinese stopping that because that duty forces European car manufacturers to build plants in China,those plants satisfying the Chinese domestic market and many exports and employing many Chinese workers.
Chinese goods into the EU,including the UK,are subject to tarif duty and some goods subject to big anti-dumping duties....20% on ally wheels,48% on non assisted bikes (e-bikes are only 6%). Now that would be fantastic,we could ship cheap product in from China and be very cheap selling it into Europe. Except when importers tried to avoid the anti-dumping duty by shipping to a third party country,the EU immediately slapped the duty on the third party country,they would do the same to us.....imagine if the likes of Pashley had to pay a 48% anti dumping duty if they sold bikes into Germany,currently shipped tarif free.
I don't know who currently collects the anti-dumping duty,it is paid to our revenue but for sure the EU will keep any duty it slaps on our goods shipped into Europe.
Hammond didn't tell us the detail,did he?
KudosDave
Chinese goods into the EU,including the UK,are subject to tarif duty and some goods subject to big anti-dumping duties....20% on ally wheels,48% on non assisted bikes (e-bikes are only 6%). Now that would be fantastic,we could ship cheap product in from China and be very cheap selling it into Europe. Except when importers tried to avoid the anti-dumping duty by shipping to a third party country,the EU immediately slapped the duty on the third party country,they would do the same to us.....imagine if the likes of Pashley had to pay a 48% anti dumping duty if they sold bikes into Germany,currently shipped tarif free.
I don't know who currently collects the anti-dumping duty,it is paid to our revenue but for sure the EU will keep any duty it slaps on our goods shipped into Europe.
Hammond didn't tell us the detail,did he?
KudosDave
import duty collected by the UK from China (and other countries outside the EU) less a small percentage for our HMRC goes straight to EU coffers.
If we remain in the single market after brexit, that situation will continue.
If we are not, then HMRC keeps all the money.
The Canary is a left wing political blog, hardly a source of unbiased neutral journalism. It's editor, Kerry-Ann Mendoza, is a left wing political activist. Now I'm not trying to vilify her or say she is wrong, but how can we draw an unbiased and factual opinion from her? I would say no more so than an article written by Nigel Farage.
It seem that you are forcing this material down our throats and then slinging the most vile insults at anyone who disagrees with the content. Your conduct is a sickness and a perversion. Nothing more clearly illustrates this than your opinion of the British working class. Repeated below are your words:
What that is really about is thousands of self-employed plumbers, sparks, chippies and plasterers who take exception to eastern European workers coming into the UK and performing building work cheaper than their rip-off prices.
Those are the same people who don't pay anything like the tax they should and vote tory as they know they can get away with it because nobody checks any more. They don't care who pays for the NHS so long as they don't but they do use it. Apart from that, does anyone know any British, self-employed builder who work more than a four and a half day week?
First of all, many of these people would rather not be self employed. Many are self employed because its easier to hire and fire them, not have to pay holiday pay, sick pay or other benefits enjoyed by employees contracted to a company.
Rip-offs occur in every corner of society and are not the exclusive preserve of British tradesmen. For example, many years ago the left wing leaning leader of my local council was found to be steeling goods and services from the authority, or to use your term, ripping off the electorate. He was prosecuted and found guilty. Does this now give me licence to label all labour councillors as self serving thieves? Of course it does not, we need to take a balanced view and realise that bad apples have infiltrated everywhere. You should not be selective and pick on certain groups of people in order to make your political point.
The tattooed skinhead thugs who intimidate migrants are exactly that, thugs and they are racists. You are absolutely wrong to make the association with leave supporters. Statistically, there will be racists who support leave, that is an unavoidable fact. It does not mean that leave supporters are inherently racist and to say that, "it goes with the territory" demonstrates your uncompromising & vile personality. There will be people amongst the remain campaigners who are guilty of equally horrendous acts, but it would be wrong to label them all the same.
You seem ready to condemn entire groups of people as racists, rip-off merchants, tax-dodgers, work-shy and other insults, based on the actions of a few. This is precisely the course of action you correctly and passionately criticise when people generalise about migrants. All migrants are benefit spongers for example. A small minority may be, but it is wrong to generalise and it is wrong for you to generalise about other groups of people.
I wonder why you have such hatred for British working people. People who just want to go out to work and do a fair days labour for a fair days pay. Why do you despise these people so much? It's pretty obvious that your politics lie to the left and I have no issue with that, but it seems like the left has lost its way, no longer representing the working class and despising them instead, like you.
Your posts are loaded with hypocrisy and unfair generalisation and I despise your views with the same passion that you despise the working people of this country. What have working class people done to you to cause this smouldering hatred toward them?
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With the proviso that our imports from China will be much less once Nissan etc relocate their car manufacturing plants as tariff barriers with the EU go up (if we leave).
Well said Tillson
I don't think that will be the case even if we do not stay in the single market. Our production cost is very much at the same place as France & Germany, all the defensive import duty tariffs against other countries outside the EU will have to stay more or less at the same level for the foreseable future.
From the point of view of taxation, I must say we would be better off pulling out of the single market gradually over time.
Whatever else one might accuse the crass,insulting,uninformed brexit voters off, one cannot accuse them of considering the average working people in the UK
http://www.sunderlandecho.com/news/business/nissan-says-no-comment-on-future-of-sunderland-plant-after-brexit-1-7980813
You don't know this will happen. You state that Nissan WILL relocate in the sense that the decision has been taken and that it IS going to happen. Where is your evidence for this?
You should use terms like may, could or potentially when talking about these things.
It is almost as though you, oldtom and a few others are eager for factories to close and relish the prospect of ordinary working people being made redundant. All to satisify some twisted ego driven desire to say I told you so.
It is way beyond pathetic.
Have you read that article? It makes no mention of closing the factory, just that they don't know what the future holds, so can't say how the plant will develop. What does, "Whatever else one might accuse the crass,insulting,uninformed brexit voters off, one cannot accuse them of considering the average working people in the UK" mean? What are you talking about, the average working person in the Sunderland area voted out.
derf, it is people like you and oldtom who are constantly seeking out snippet of news and then wringing out the negatives, often where non exist, who are doing the damage.
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