Brexit, for once some facts.

oldtom

Esteemed Pedelecer
My, probably highly partisan assessment of what I saw and heard, was that the remain camp were seeing there arguments getting bolstered by what is happening and and proposed, while the exit camp were still going for the "get on with it", "how difficult can it be?" views.
The fundamental values of the two camps are miles apart. While there is no doubt that a large hard-core of 'Brexidiots' are so deeply entrenched in their racist/fascist views that no logical argument is ever likely to change them, there are millions of other leave voters who would now change their vote, based on the incontrovertible evidence that has come to light over the last year.

It seems that we must be dragged out of the EU, then suffer the worst consequences predicted by eminent political and economic forecasters before the 'Brexidiots' finally come to realise that they have been wrong all along. Mass unemployment in deprived areas should be sufficient to grab the attention of all but the stupidest.

Tom
 
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Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
20,329
16,853
Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
"how difficult can it be?"
When Hatti was on BBC Essex last week, she was pitched against another lady who runs a tapas bar in Chemsford. Hatti explained by way of her own example that the Pound has been affected by brexit, pushing up her prices between 12% and 15%, her exports will also be hurt by brexit because of additional administration. Over time, Woosh will be less competitive against other similar companies in the EU27, leading to possible job loss. The other lady said she does not export, she imports Spanish ingredients through a local dealer and if she has to pay a little more, it is for a good cause and puts her faith in the brilliant David Davis, he'll know what to do.
 
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oldtom

Esteemed Pedelecer
The other lady said she does not export, she imports Spanish ingredients through a local dealer and if she has to pay a little more, it is for a good cause and puts her faith in the brilliant David Davis, he'll know what to do.
Such faith!.....I'm stunned but not surprised, if you know what I mean.

My American friends keep me appraised of what is happening over the pond and these two images reflect a reality that appears a lot less attractive than our Trump-loving, fascist politicians would have us believe:

32375180_1679671408755213_4648265503268143104_n.png


32885999_637762276570994_1146366714498252800_n.jpg

Do more trade and enjoy a closer, special relationship with the USA....? I think not!

Tom
 

oldtom

Esteemed Pedelecer
There is something wrong about this story from the BBC news web page.

If we are to believe the proven liar, Tony B-liar, that he knew nothing about the Abdul Hakim Belhaj rendition, then who actually did know? MI6 and the other divisions of the security services are answerable to somebody within their hierarchy who, in turn, must be answerable to a government minister, for example a Home Secretary or a Foreign Secretary, let's say.

Any other conclusion means that the secret services are a law unto themselves and may well be acting outside the bounds of law if no governmental oversight and control applies to them.

It strikes me as ludicrous that the wife of Mr Belhaj should receive not only an apology but half a million quid from the taxpayer if the secret services had really acted correctly in their dealings in this matter.

Whose head rolled in this shameful tale? I can't recall anyone being hung out to dry over the rendition issue so what is going on at Millbank and across the water on the Albert Embankment?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44208851

Tom
 

oldtom

Esteemed Pedelecer
As if the late 20th century wasn't bad enough, in this second decade of the 21st century, under tory mis-government, we have seen news of thousands of deaths, perhaps even tens of thousands, directly attributable to government policy.

The same people responsible for those deaths are currently pursuing a deal on 'Brexit'; any deal, any deal at all as they care no more for the rest of the population than they do about the individuals they have effectively murdered through the enactment of their sick dogma.

This woman is only one victim:

33170159_1802303046457490_775678416576839680_n.jpg

Tom
 
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tommie

Esteemed Pedelecer
Mar 13, 2013
1,760
600
Co. Down, N. Ireland, U.K.
Well said Sammy - nail on head!


DUP's Wilson: May must show EU she is prepared to walk away
by Sammy Wilson MP

The referendum result was a surprise to the complacent elite in the UK and the EU who were convinced that the population would never dare to ignore the scaremongering tactics used during the referendum.

Nor did they believe that the people of the UK would have the optimism to believe that we did not need our hand held by the unelected patronising bureaucrats in Brussels in order to succeed in the world.

There was always going to be a fight back to overturn the referendum result. After all that is what the EU and its cheerleaders have done in every country where the people dared step out of line. Since June 2016 there has been a guerrilla warfare being conducted by the EU fifth columnists in the House of Commons, the House of Lords, the chattering classes and the various sectoral groups who are in hock to the EU.

Northern Ireland has been thrust into the front line in this battle. The border with the RoI has taken on a significance it does not warrant in an effort to keep the UK in both the EU Customs Union and the Single Market. The argument that the land border between NI and the RoI would become a back door by which the EU’s ring of steel against cheaper and often better non EU goods would enter is nonsense.

Given its nature and the arrangements already in place to deal with the fiscal, currency and regulatory boundary which already exists the Irish border could be better controlled and would be far less porous than EU boundaries in Eastern Europe or the Mediterranean countries. Every day excise duty and VAT is collected from cross border trade in Ireland without a vehicle being stopped. Are we seriously supposed to believe that when the UK leaves the EU this ability will suddenly disappear?

To check on cross border trade we are told that there would have to be a hard border and this would leads to as renewal of terrorist violence and would be against the Belfast Agreement.

First of all what do those who talk about a hard border mean? Checkpoints, army and police patrols, watchtowers, road closures. What would be the point. We had 50,000 troops in NI during the troubles and they couldn’t seal the border. It is a fact that no matter how hard the border it would not achieve the result that the EU wanted ie.. the exclusion of goods from outside the customs union.

Secondly, both the EU and the Irish government have consistently dismissed out of hand all suggestions as to how trade could be monitored using the existing infrastructure on the border, trusted trader arrangements, electronic monitoring of trade, GPS technology in vehicles the only equipment being required is the driver’s phone and a range of other methods which the Permanent Secretary in HMRC,his counterpart in the RoI, former Irish Prime Ministers and a host of experts have said would avoid any border checks. Furthermore these methods could be applied at ports in the UK where the potential for disruption is far higher because of the volume of trade compared to the minor amounts of trade across the Irish border.

Thirdly, the real conflict with the Belfast Agreement lies with the EU and Irish government proposals because in effect they would remove NI from the UK. A vital part of the Belfast Agreement was that the constitutional status of NI could only be changed by the consent of the people of NI not by EU dictates or Irish mendacity.

The real interests of the Irish lie with keeping open markets with the whole of the UK. More Irish trade goes to GB than to the whole of the EU and loss of that market would ruin their economy. On top of this 80% of its EU trade has to go through GB and the Irish can’t afford delays on this route, so the important border is the Irish Sea border rather than the NI border. That is why the current Irish government are mad to act as agents for the EU arguing for a hard line to be taken with the UK in these negotiations. They ought to be arguing for a trade deal which causes no disruption to trade.

It is now time even if it is late in the day for the PM to put her foot down and make it clear that even though it is not the ideal outcome, if the EU and the Irish continue to dismiss all the reasonable suggestions made by the UK government and keep using every device to keep us in the EU in all but name then she will walk away.

That would leave the EU without the £40bn it so desperately needs from the UK. It would shut the agri food industry in the RoI out of its main market putting tens of thousands of jobs on the line. It would disrupt huge sectors of the German, French, Spanish and Italian economies and would quickly bring the intransigent, bullying, and arrogant EU negotiators back to the table. It is time for the PM to show if she has the steel of Margaret Thatcher. Time to get her handbag out and start swinging.
 

oldtom

Esteemed Pedelecer
To divert your attention away from the disaster that 'Brexit' has become, the Daily Mail has emblazoned this news on their online health page:

Eating-egg-day-reduces-risk-stroke-25.html

A bunch of decidedly dodgy statistics is always a good fall-back strategy when you are running out of other news stories to keep the public distracted so they don't see the shambles that 'Brexit' has become.

Tom.....off to do a three-egg omelette!:)
 
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oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
23,461
32,613
80
Well said Sammy - nail on head!


DUP's Wilson: May must show EU she is prepared to walk away
by Sammy Wilson MP

The referendum result was a surprise to the complacent elite in the UK and the EU who were convinced that the population would never dare to ignore the scaremongering tactics used during the referendum.

Nor did they believe that the people of the UK would have the optimism to believe that we did not need our hand held by the unelected patronising bureaucrats in Brussels in order to succeed in the world.

There was always going to be a fight back to overturn the referendum result. After all that is what the EU and its cheerleaders have done in every country where the people dared step out of line. Since June 2016 there has been a guerrilla warfare being conducted by the EU fifth columnists in the House of Commons, the House of Lords, the chattering classes and the various sectoral groups who are in hock to the EU.

Northern Ireland has been thrust into the front line in this battle. The border with the RoI has taken on a significance it does not warrant in an effort to keep the UK in both the EU Customs Union and the Single Market. The argument that the land border between NI and the RoI would become a back door by which the EU’s ring of steel against cheaper and often better non EU goods would enter is nonsense.

Given its nature and the arrangements already in place to deal with the fiscal, currency and regulatory boundary which already exists the Irish border could be better controlled and would be far less porous than EU boundaries in Eastern Europe or the Mediterranean countries. Every day excise duty and VAT is collected from cross border trade in Ireland without a vehicle being stopped. Are we seriously supposed to believe that when the UK leaves the EU this ability will suddenly disappear?

To check on cross border trade we are told that there would have to be a hard border and this would leads to as renewal of terrorist violence and would be against the Belfast Agreement.

First of all what do those who talk about a hard border mean? Checkpoints, army and police patrols, watchtowers, road closures. What would be the point. We had 50,000 troops in NI during the troubles and they couldn’t seal the border. It is a fact that no matter how hard the border it would not achieve the result that the EU wanted ie.. the exclusion of goods from outside the customs union.

Secondly, both the EU and the Irish government have consistently dismissed out of hand all suggestions as to how trade could be monitored using the existing infrastructure on the border, trusted trader arrangements, electronic monitoring of trade, GPS technology in vehicles the only equipment being required is the driver’s phone and a range of other methods which the Permanent Secretary in HMRC,his counterpart in the RoI, former Irish Prime Ministers and a host of experts have said would avoid any border checks. Furthermore these methods could be applied at ports in the UK where the potential for disruption is far higher because of the volume of trade compared to the minor amounts of trade across the Irish border.

Thirdly, the real conflict with the Belfast Agreement lies with the EU and Irish government proposals because in effect they would remove NI from the UK. A vital part of the Belfast Agreement was that the constitutional status of NI could only be changed by the consent of the people of NI not by EU dictates or Irish mendacity.

The real interests of the Irish lie with keeping open markets with the whole of the UK. More Irish trade goes to GB than to the whole of the EU and loss of that market would ruin their economy. On top of this 80% of its EU trade has to go through GB and the Irish can’t afford delays on this route, so the important border is the Irish Sea border rather than the NI border. That is why the current Irish government are mad to act as agents for the EU arguing for a hard line to be taken with the UK in these negotiations. They ought to be arguing for a trade deal which causes no disruption to trade.

It is now time even if it is late in the day for the PM to put her foot down and make it clear that even though it is not the ideal outcome, if the EU and the Irish continue to dismiss all the reasonable suggestions made by the UK government and keep using every device to keep us in the EU in all but name then she will walk away.

That would leave the EU without the £40bn it so desperately needs from the UK. It would shut the agri food industry in the RoI out of its main market putting tens of thousands of jobs on the line. It would disrupt huge sectors of the German, French, Spanish and Italian economies and would quickly bring the intransigent, bullying, and arrogant EU negotiators back to the table. It is time for the PM to show if she has the steel of Margaret Thatcher. Time to get her handbag out and start swinging.
Very humorous post, Tommie
But it should contain a dietary Health Warning..
"May contain Nuts":cool:
 
Last edited:

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
23,461
32,613
80
This is the Reality
From the independent
"
Brexit has already hit UK GDP by up to £40bn, Bank of England governor Mark Carney reveals
The governor said that real household incomes are about £900 per household lower than the bank forecast in May 2016


Mark Carney has reiterated the view of the Bank of England that the vote for Brexit has already knocked about 2 per cent off the size of the UK economy, a sum equivalent to around £40bn.

He added that the cost for each UK household was around £900.

Giving evidence to the Treasury Committee on Tuesday, Mr Carney said that the economy has underperformed the bank’s pre-referendum forecasts and that the Leave vote, which prompted a record one-day fall in sterling, was the primary culprit.

es Streeting, a Labour MP on the committee and supporter of the People’s Vote campaign, said: “The governor of the Bank of England is quite clear that the Brexit vote has left us all poorer and worse off, and the government’s botched Brexit negotiations threaten to make the situation even worse for generations to come. Evidence like this demonstrates exactly why we need a People’s Vote on the final Brexit deal.”

Mr Carney also warned that the UK urgently needed the single market and customs union transition after March 2019.

“If the implementation agreement doesn’t come to pass for whatever reason, there would be a potentially considerable real economy adjustment,” he said.


To put it simply we must NOT LEAVE THE EU
 

tommie

Esteemed Pedelecer
Mar 13, 2013
1,760
600
Co. Down, N. Ireland, U.K.
Very humorous post, Tommie
But it should contain a dietary Health Warning..
"May contain Nuts":cool:
must be an awful feeling when you know you can do absolutely nothing about it - tic-toc, tic-toc, :D

Paisley: We voted for Brexit as the United Kingdom
May 22, 2018

DUP MP Ian Paisley has issued a reminder to Theresa May and Remoaners across the UK that the people voted to leave the ‘failed and failing EU’ and that the idea of an extended transition period or customs partnership arrangement is ‘the biggest cloud of mush’ he’s ever seen.

Paisley, speaking on Channel 4 News, issued a stark warning to the PM as well. When asked if he was willing to bring down the coalition if there’s a soft Brexit, he said: “Are you prepared to risk it?”

He added: “The government today has indicated that we’re leaving the EU, the Customs Union, the Single Market. That’s what the people voted for. We didn’t vote in segments of the UK, we voted as a unitary kingdom and if London leaves on certain terms then Lisburn leaves on the same terms that’s the bottom line here.

“The important thing is we get over the line next march, get out of the EU, we start to do the trade deals that we want to do and we demonstrate that over time this is the best thing that could have happened because we’ve got out of a failed and failing EU.”

On the extended transition period/Single Market/Customs Union membership, he said: “That sounds like the biggest cloud of mush that I’ve ever actually heard. That’s not what we’re doing. We are leaving the EU, we know that we leave next March, we know after that there’s a short transition period to resolve some issues and that’s the way we intend to push this.

“The idea that you can be half pregnant, half in, half out, isn’t on. This is a revolutionary change and we are leaving the EU. People have got to get used to that and trying to play off the Northern Ireland border issue for purely sectarian and divisive reasons…is completely and totally wrong and in fact futile because a lot of people see through that.”
 

oldtom

Esteemed Pedelecer
The latest news from the government looks for all the world like they are swiftly backtracking on all their pontificating about diesel vehicles. Not only is the diesel engine back in the good books, all those targets set about achieving zero emissions seem set to be postponed till at least 2075 placed on the back burner for a while.

The story is here:

Government-says-theres-place-diesel-cars.html

This is the minister for potholes:

safe_image.php.jpeg

Tom
 
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oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
10,422
14,609
West West Wales
The latest news from the government looks for all the world like they are swiftly backtracking on all their pontificating about diesel vehicles. Not only is the diesel engine back in the good books, all those targets set about achieving zero emissions seem set to be postponed till at least 2075 placed on the back burner for a while.
Looks like someone has bought the line fed by Bosch and reported in the FT:

Bosch claims breakthrough in cleaning up diesel fuel
German car parts supplier says new technology means ‘emissions will no longer be an issue’

If true, then quite obviously the restrictions should be based on real-world performance rather than arbitrarily deciding that one fuel is to be forbidden.

If not true, then who are these people being taken in by the claims? Is there any, ahem, deeper reason... ?

(Also, if Bosch can summon up these amazing improvements in what seems like a matter of months, just what have they been doing since Rudolf invented the damned engine over 120 years ago?)
 

oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
10,422
14,609
West West Wales
The fundamental values of the two camps are miles apart. While there is no doubt that a large hard-core of 'Brexidiots' are so deeply entrenched in their racist/fascist views that no logical argument is ever likely to change them, there are millions of other leave voters who would now change their vote, based on the incontrovertible evidence that has come to light over the last year.

It seems that we must be dragged out of the EU, then suffer the worst consequences predicted by eminent political and economic forecasters before the 'Brexidiots' finally come to realise that they have been wrong all along. Mass unemployment in deprived areas should be sufficient to grab the attention of all but the stupidest.

Tom
Brexit support plummets in Northern Ireland as 69% back remain
More would vote to stay in EU if there were another vote now, compared with 2016

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/brexit-northern-ireland-support-remain-dup-border-a8361206.html
 

oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
10,422
14,609
West West Wales
To divert your attention away from the disaster that 'Brexit' has become, the Daily Mail has emblazoned this news on their online health page:

Eating-egg-day-reduces-risk-stroke-25.html

A bunch of decidedly dodgy statistics is always a good fall-back strategy when you are running out of other news stories to keep the public distracted so they don't see the shambles that 'Brexit' has become.

Tom.....off to do a three-egg omelette!:)
Edwina Currie might have screwed the egg industry, but she stood up to remain in the EU.
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,154
30,570
(Also, if Bosch can summon up these amazing improvements in what seems like a matter of months, just what have they been doing since Rudolf invented the damned engine over 120 years ago?)
The amazing improvements are only very recent and have been in the public relations and marketing departments.

All the previous efforts over many years by their technical department had proved unproductive, necessitating a different approach to the problem.
.
 
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oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
23,461
32,613
80
must be an awful feeling when you know you can do absolutely nothing about it - tic-toc, tic-toc, :D

Paisley: We voted for Brexit as the United Kingdom
May 22, 2018

DUP MP Ian Paisley has issued a reminder to Theresa May and Remoaners across the UK that the people voted to leave the ‘failed and failing EU’ and that the idea of an extended transition period or customs partnership arrangement is ‘the biggest cloud of mush’ he’s ever seen.

Paisley, speaking on Channel 4 News, issued a stark warning to the PM as well. When asked if he was willing to bring down the coalition if there’s a soft Brexit, he said: “Are you prepared to risk it?”

He added: “The government today has indicated that we’re leaving the EU, the Customs Union, the Single Market. That’s what the people voted for. We didn’t vote in segments of the UK, we voted as a unitary kingdom and if London leaves on certain terms then Lisburn leaves on the same terms that’s the bottom line here.

“The important thing is we get over the line next march, get out of the EU, we start to do the trade deals that we want to do and we demonstrate that over time this is the best thing that could have happened because we’ve got out of a failed and failing EU.”

On the extended transition period/Single Market/Customs Union membership, he said: “That sounds like the biggest cloud of mush that I’ve ever actually heard. That’s not what we’re doing. We are leaving the EU, we know that we leave next March, we know after that there’s a short transition period to resolve some issues and that’s the way we intend to push this.

“The idea that you can be half pregnant, half in, half out, isn’t on. This is a revolutionary change and we are leaving the EU. People have got to get used to that and trying to play off the Northern Ireland border issue for purely sectarian and divisive reasons…is completely and totally wrong and in fact futile because a lot of people see through that.”
Let's recap what actually happened shall we?

Lie number one.
The referendum was Advisory only and not legally binding, a fact that was carefully concealed from the Public for fear they may decide not to bother to vote

Lie number two

It was not a crushing victory for leave merely a marginal 4% difference where even Farage stated that such a victory if it had gone in the other direction would not equate to a Mandate, only a 2:1 victory would sett the matter.

Lie number three "The Will of the people"
By the standards demanded by Farage and other Leave champions it isn't is it?

Lie Number three it was correctly run and Fair

The Referendum has been tainted by the us of Psychological Warfare means of mass persuasion , and huge numbers of ex pats who should have had the right to vote were excluded

Lie number four We can now protect our Borders

With what and from whom?

Lie number five More money for the NHS

Actually there have been cuts and bribes given to a bunch of Blackmailers in the DUP

Lie number 6 Control of Free Movement

That has already backfired badly on the NHS , Farming and other industries

Lie number 7 the EU is Failing

Wrong again, it isn't we are, and it will get worse

Lie Number 8 the Leave side had a plan

We haven't got one yet!

Lie number 9 The people Voted for Revolutionary Change

Actually they voted for an end to Austerity and the EU had been Blamed Wrongly for that

You know what is an awful feeling? that there are people like Tommie who appear unable to grasp how serious a mess they have got this so called United Kingdom into because they allowed themselves to be deluded into imagining they were doing something "Noble and Patriotic" by voting for Brexit, instead of checking the credibility of the main characters in this sorry drama.

Who after all could be stupid enough to believe Boris, Gove, Davis Fox and Farage?
All the lies and promises have been exposed and there is still no plan is there?

The truth of the matter is that most Brexit voters registered a protest vote against Austerity on the Grounds that since the Government policy was to stay in the EU (Despite blaming the EU for it's own failures) they the Voters were against something that they didn't have the most rudimentary understanding of.

And now they can't bring themselves to accept they were foolish and conned.

There is light at the end of this particular tunnel, regardless of their obstinacy , and quite inevitably, in the long run Europe will morph into a Superstate, as America did from several nations, and Germany did from over 30 small states.

Like it or not, Tommie this country will be absorbed into that Superstate, but not as a major player, just a junior offshore island, rather as it was in the time of the Roman Empire, and by then Northern Ireland will be long gone and merged with the rest of Eire.
 

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
23,461
32,613
80
Here's the Bosch statement
http://www.bosch-presse.de/pressportal/de/en/growth-earnings-environmental-protection-in-its-quest-to-make-mobility-as-emissions-free-as-possible-bosch-has-achieved-a-breakthrough-156224.html
"
  • Many assume it is particulates, but that’s not the case. Since the introduction of particulate filters, diesel engines have ceased to be a source of particulate pollution in cities, and spark-ignition engines need to follow suit as quickly as possible. Indeed, since mid-2017, Bosch has no longer accepted any orders for gasoline systems without filters.
  • The main problem posed by diesel engines is nitrogen-oxide emissions. The challenge is to bring them below the limits not only on the test stand, but on the road as well. It is precisely this hurdle that our engineers have now overcome, exceeding expectations with pioneering solutions that will allow automakers to come in well below the legal limits.."

    • Just been looking at a patent
    • "
      Method for purifying nitric oxide and sulphur dioxide containing gas

      Abstract

      A method for purifying sulphur dioxide and nitric oxide containing gas, wherein at least as much oxygen is used in the gas as the stoichiometric amount required to oxidize the nitric oxide into nitrogen peroxide, and the gas is treated with alkali metal bicarbonate. The method may be used to purify fumes generated by the combustion of sulphurous fossil fuels in thermal electric power stations.
    • Hmmm...
 
  • Agree
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