Brexit, for once some facts.

[oldtom]

The great Nye Bevan pondered long and hard over this many years ago:



In the USA, the great socialist and workers' rights champion, Lucy Parsons had this to say on the matter:



To explain it, we need to understand the power of control, the telling of lies, the non-telling of many truths and bribery on an industrial scale.....that's all it takes when money is no object.

Much as I have always admired Bevan, I can't understand why he found 'the tory way' to be a problem - the answer is pretty simple and has stood the test of time throughout history. The lady from America understood!

Tom

 

[Danidl]

Back to Brexit. The CEO of Dublin Port, the largest port in the country with 36 million tonnes through put , is putting in planning permission for the additional customs and storage required Put simply he cannot live with the uncertainty.... Are there similar planning permission applications for all the major and minor UK ports ?

 

[Danidl]

In other news there have been 8 gun incidents (with death or injury, more without) in US schools in the last 7 weeks. These are the people you have a special relationship with?

I believe you are underestimating... Us websites suggest a school related firearms incident every second day since last new year's Day... Of course yesterday's was the worst

 

[flecc]

Are there similar planning permission applications for all the major and minor UK ports ?

I doubt it at present, we still seem to be at the stage of business leaders repeatedly asking the government for more clarification. The stated political position seems clear enough, no customs union and no single market, but I have the impression that business leaders can't envisage or believe that being the outcome.
.

 

[Woosh]

I doubt it at present, we still seem to be at the stage of business leaders repeatedly asking the government for more clarification

if you do a bit of export, you'd like to stay in the SM or CU.
If you import, the issue does not affect you one way or the other.
As around 83% of businesses don't export at all (eg hairdressers, groceries, plumbers etc), the issue of staying in SM or CU is more a political than practical one.
My preference for us to stay in the CU is a political one. I know the country will lose out about 3% of our GDP in the short term if we leave the SM and CU.

 

[oldgroaner]

I doubt it at present, we still seem to be at the stage of business leaders repeatedly asking the government for more clarification. The stated political position seems clear enough, no customs union and no single market, but I have the impression that business leaders can't envisage or believe that being the outcome.
.

They unquestionably underestimate just how stupid this Government actually is, and the fact that it doesn't give a damn about anything other than jockeying to please the paymasters that own it.

 

[Danidl]

if you do a bit of export, you'd like to stay in the SM or CU.
If you import, the issue does not affect you one way or the other.
As around 83% of businesses don't export at all (eg hairdressers, groceries, plumbers etc), the issue of staying in SM or CU is more a political than practical one.
My preference for us to stay in the CU is a political one. I know the country will lose out about 3% of our GDP in the short term if we leave the SM and CU.

The hair dressers , the grocers , even the plumbers are using product sourced around the world. When the things they want are stuck in customs or stuck in transit.. the coconut oil shampoos, the bananas , the winter tomatoes, will they not also gripe?

 

[Woosh]

The hair dressers , the grocers , even the plumbers are using product sourced around the world. When the things they want are stuck in customs or stuck in transit.. the coconut oil shampoos, the bananas , the winter tomatoes, will they not also gripe?

remainers put too much importance on the economic hit for leaving the SM and CU after the transition period.
I don't think many would notice the changes in their daily life.
For most, they'll accept that there is a price for taking back control.
The people who would be affected are those who work for very large companies.

 

[oldtom]

Everything is politics and politics is everything; we cannot avoid being participants unless we adopt the ostrich attitude to danger.

I loved these two views on politics from different centuries, each as observed by very astute men:

"One of the penalties of refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors."
- Plato




I suspect if those guys were still around, they'd be regular contributors to social media as we know it today.....or liquidated, never to be heard from again!

Tom

 

[anotherkiwi]

Everything is politics and politics is everything; we cannot avoid being participants unless we adopt the ostrich attitude to danger.

I loved these two views on politics from different centuries, each as observed by very astute men:

"One of the penalties of refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors."
- Plato


View attachment 23413

I suspect if those guys were still around, they'd be regular contributors to social media as we know it today.....or liquidated, never to be heard from again!

Tom

Orwell would have had a heart attack when the referendum result was announced. As it is I can hear him constantly turning in his grave from here...

 

[Danidl]

remainers put too much importance on the economic hit for leaving the SM and CU after the transition period.
I don't think many would notice the changes in their daily life.
For most, they'll accept that there is a price for taking back control.
The people who would be affected are those who work for very large companies.

I suspect that the reality will be different, but whether the broad population of people realise what has caused the reductions in living standards, may well be hidden. On this island we do know , but are powerless, and we will suffer collateral damage

 

[oldtom]

I suspect that the reality will be different, but whether the broad population of people realise what has caused the reductions in living standards, may well be hidden. On this island we do know , but are powerless, and we will suffer collateral damage

On this island, millions know who is responsible for the state the nation is in and worse - the disaster about to befall us!

This imbecile is guilty but he is only one of many!



Tom

 

[oldgroaner]

remainers put too much importance on the economic hit for leaving the SM and CU after the transition period.
I don't think many would notice the changes in their daily life.
For most, they'll accept that there is a price for taking back control.
The people who would be affected are those who work for very large companies.

Nonsense! they'll notice all right.

 

[oldgroaner]

remainers put too much importance on the economic hit for leaving the SM and CU after the transition period.
I don't think many would notice the changes in their daily life.
For most, they'll accept that there is a price for taking back control.
The people who would be affected are those who work for very large companies.

Well new here's one who won't find what happens is acceptable, and by now that is likely to apply to the majority of the public.
Why should they care about "Taking back control" as it will turn out?

They thought that meant them taking back control of the Government, through voting for Brexit in the belief that the EU was the villain of the piece ruining their lives, when the real culprit was the Government itself
Not giving unlimited power to the actual villains causing their distress!

Referendums are dangerous things that have given the illusion of power to the Public over the way it is governed.

Imagine how aggrieved they will feel when the penny drops, as their rights and protections vanish like smoke.

Truly Brexit will prove for the general public the truth of the old saying
"Out of the Frying Pan into the Fire"

At that point history will repeat itself and someone even more damaging than Farage will appear to work mischief and cause mayhem.

The likes of Jackass Grease Smug, Gollum and Boris see the killings to be made at the Public expense as too good to be true.

They are, and they will that find that out the hard way in due course.

 

[oldgroaner]

O

Everything is politics and politics is everything; we cannot avoid being participants unless we adopt the ostrich attitude to danger.

I loved these two views on politics from different centuries, each as observed by very astute men:

"One of the penalties of refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors."
- Plato


View attachment 23413

I suspect if those guys were still around, they'd be regular contributors to social media as we know it today.....or liquidated, never to be heard from again!

Tom

Our particular Flying Circus of Politicians are alas all the same, they live by the tenets of one of Groucho's sayings unfortunately

"“The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made.”
― Groucho Marx

Certain individuals spring to mind immediately!

 

[oldgroaner]

Accurate summation of the present position of the Governments Brexit plans

"“My plans are still in embryo, a town on the edge of wishful thinking.”
― Groucho Marx

Farcical situation isn't it?

 

[Woosh]

Why should they care about "Taking back control" as it will turn out?

there may be a grain of truth in that statement.
However you see 'taking back control' as it will turn out after the transition period, the daily life of most people won't change because of that. We have had wage stagnation for a decade, would anyone notice 0.5% growth difference a year between one brexit model and another?

As a matter of fact, TM and Mrs Merkel are holding talks today. The two should agree to have a CU where GB is not locked out of negotiating FT deals.

 

[flecc]

The two should agree to have a CU where GB is not locked out of negotiating FT deals.

But that's the impossibility, leaves an open back door into the EU from whatever free trade sources we obtain. Worse still, one of our new free trade sources could conflict with an existing EU agreement with that country.

Trying to permit CU and FTAs by catering for all the specific objections of either party with exceptions would be fiendishly difficult and probably impossible.
.

 

[Kudoscycles]

Back to Brexit. The CEO of Dublin Port, the largest port in the country with 36 million tonnes through put , is putting in planning permission for the additional customs and storage required Put simply he cannot live with the uncertainty.... Are there similar planning permission applications for all the major and minor UK ports ?

Danidl......there isnt room at Dover for any additional storage/customs.....the geography there is such that Dover is surrounded by cliffs,access by trucks has always been difficult. Even 1 hour hold up on the ferries has the trucks ganging up on the M20....to store trucks would have to be remote from the port ,but the government abandoned the truck storage at Sandling....good job it would have ruined that area.
If tariffs are to be introduced they need to be cleared when the truck starts its journey ,not at the ports....the government are assuming that the EU will give us a free trade deal,no other outcome is being planned for....maybe they will to protect the EU exports.????
KudosDave

 

[Woosh]

But that's the impossibility, leaves an open back door into the EU from whatever free trade sources we obtain. Worse still, one of our new free trade sources could conflict with an existing EU agreement with that country.

Trying to permit CU and FTAs by catering for all the specific objections of either party with exceptions would be fiendishly difficult and probably impossible.
.

not really. Most of the FT deals can be done via the EU like usual, after all, it's a collective bargaining. Wherever GB may have a competitive edge, is in investment, capital and people movement. they don't interfere with the external duty. Even if a FTA between GB and a third country results in GB charging a different import tariff (I can't imagine with whom, other than the USA, 87%+ of our imports are to countries with whom the EU have a deal), it is a simple administrative procedure to impose additional duty on the re-exporter/importer on specific products when they cross border to the EU. Small fries who illegally import without customs declarations across NI/ROI border would then be subject to usual prosecution.