Brexit, for once some facts.

flecc

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That means in volume terms to hold equal energy battery would need to be 7 times size of fuel tank...Thats before we look at weight/ mass.
Perhaps in 200 years.
Agreed, but I think more likely never. We already have trains competing on time against aircraft on many routes and they'll get even faster. That is far more economic. It may be that the only time in future we take to the air is for crossing wide oceans, but advanced sophisticated communication could even rule out most of that with holographic meetings.
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SHAN

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By having smaller trailers following a leader, that problem is solved.
At one time in this country major road hauliers operated/out of town "shunting" yards. Large loads were delivered there, and then distributed by smaller vehicles. Worked perfectly well, until the shunting yards became prime sites for property profiteers, and then companies like Stobart changed the "game". AI, which indecently used to stand for " artificial insemination " may well help society, but a lot of the rhetoric surrounding it is "reinventing" the wheel.
 
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tillson

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Very true when they are in the hands of rational people.

Snag now is that Pakistan, India, North Korea and China have them and the dominant religions in those areas are fatalistic. Add an unstable leadership and no outcome can be ruled out.
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This is the problem. The nuclear stalemate which existed for many years is being further eroded as each new country comes on-line with nuclear weapons. Miniaturisation is now a big threat. The ability to produce a 20 000 tonne device which can be carried in a rucksack has existed for many years, but only the USA have done it (I think). If it's been invented, it's only a matter of time before the technology falls into the hands fanatics.
 
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Woosh

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Very true when they are in the hands of rational people.

Snag now is that Pakistan, India, North Korea and China have them and the dominant religions in those areas are fatalistic. Add an unstable leadership and no outcome can be ruled out.
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true enough but the first outcome is to stop the bullying USA.
 

Kudoscycles

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This is the problem. The nuclear stalemate which existed for many years is being further eroded as each new country comes on-line with nuclear weapons. Miniaturisation is now a big threat. The ability to produce a 20 000 tonne device which can be carried in a rucksack has existed for many years, but only the USA have done it (I think). If it's been invented, it's only a matter of time before the technology falls into the hands fanatics.
I remember reading that the US had developed nuclear shells that are a realistic possibility to use in a battlefield situation....that was over 10 years ago,with miniaturisation of electronics this must be possible?
KudosDave
 

flecc

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At one time in this country major road hauliers operated/out of town "shunting" yards. Large loads were delivered there, and then distributed by smaller vehicles. Worked perfectly well, until the shunting yards became prime sites for property profiteers, and then companies like Stobart changed the "game". AI, which indecently used to stand for " artificial insemination " may well help society, but a lot of the rhetoric surrounding it is "reinventing" the wheel.
Indeed, and not just road hauliers. The railways had shunting yards with the train delivered goods carried forward locally by three wheeled Scammell Mechanical Horse tractors pulling semi trailers, powered by a little Ford 10hp car engine at town speeds. Very efficient, and a modern electric version would be even better at giving door to door rail services.
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tillson

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I remember reading that the US had developed nuclear shells that are a realistic possibility to use in a battlefield situation....that was over 10 years ago,with miniaturisation of electronics this must be possible?
KudosDave
The USA definitely had, or still have if not destroyed as part of a disarmament programme, rucksack sized 20 000 tonne yield devices, weighing in at a little over 20 Kg. Highly portable. They were known as Davey Crocketts and were intended to be used in mainland Europe to destroy infrastructure ahead of an advancing Soviet Army.

Imagine half a dozen of those in the hands of a terrorist organisation. Very easy to get into a country with weak open & boarders.
 

flecc

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I remember reading that the US had developed nuclear shells that are a realistic possibility to use in a battlefield situation....that was over 10 years ago,with miniaturisation of electronics this must be possible?
KudosDave
Very difficult to know if this is true due to misreporting. For four decades now some shells have been tipped with depleted uranium extracted from nuclear wastes. The density and hardness of this material is ideal for penetrating armour on tanks and the like and we used them in the Balkans conflict. They've often been misreported as being nuclear shells since there were fears (unfounded) that they would irradiate the area where used.

Ultimately it's use against tank armour had been somewhat fruitless, since the front armour plating on tanks is often now depleted uranium, giving the necessary resistance to those shells.
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SHAN

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Indeed, and not just road hauliers. The railways had shunting yards with the train delivered goods carried forward locally by three wheeled Scammell Mechanical Horse tractors pulling semi trailers, powered by a little Ford 10hp car engine at town speeds. Very efficient, and a modern electric version would be even better at giving door to door rail services.
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I remember them well. "Scammell Scarab's" at the railway yards, BRS truck depot's with "Karrier" trucks for town delivery. Accusations of "rose tinted spectacles" alert. Also, where I live, the inter city bus operators offered a depot to depot parcel service. I live in a rural location down a dead end road. When the postal/parcel delivery service was nationalised, we got two vans a day. One for letters, the other for parcels. Now, after privatisation, there can be in excess of 30 vans per day. I've had seven deliveries in one day by seven different companies, whereas before it would have been one. Taking time to sit back and look at the transport infrastructure in this country requires looking at the bigger picture in its entirety, and not just short term flash in the pan fast buck ideas to line your mates pockets.
 

Zlatan

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I,d thought Tactical Nuclear Weapons were envisaged to be used against deep bunkers. ( or the masses of Russian tanks) A low yield bomb was combined with a penetrating missile...the resultant " earthquake" destroyed the deepest of bunkers. Attaching nuclear bombs to tank shells was just a myth...as far as I,m aware. DU shells are unfortunately common. Tons of the things were used in Kosovo. Produces deadly gases on burning and will contaminate region for years.
 

flecc

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DU shells are unfortunately common. Tons of the things were used in Kosovo. Produces deadly gases on burning and will contaminate region for years.
But it's largely background radiation of the same type and effect that the earth has always had naturally for the last 4.5 billion years since it was created, so harmless.

The small proportion of more active waste quickly loses strength, but as ever the hysterical media combine the two and report as "deadly radioactivity for billions of years", which is in fact an impossibility.
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Zlatan

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But it's largely background radiation of the same type and effect that the earth has always had naturally for the last 4.5 billion years since it was created, so harmless.

The small proportion of more active waste quickly loses strength, but as ever the hysterical media combine the two and report as "deadly radioactivity for billions of years", which is in fact an impossibility.
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Its not quite that simple Flecc. The DU shells if left undisturbed are exactly as you describe but unfortunately that's not normally the case. The tank hit will burst into flames creating clouds of radio active smoke. If that's breathed chances are you will at some stage develop cancer. The smoke settles on ground etc and finds a way into food chain in a way it would not normally. Yes, if DU shell struck earth and was simply left...well that's putting the stuff back where it came from...not in our lungs or food. We dont know how much represents the two scenarios.. Besides with reactive armour I,m not sure DU gives any benefits.
And the background radiation can be unaltered even when there are high local concentrations. Collecting the uranium and concentrating it in one place, for kids to play near years later, could easily be dangerous without affecting overall background. I think there are lawsuits starting from USA military personnel who had to handle DU shells ??? Its not healthy however we look at it.
 
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oldgroaner

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This is where nuclear weapons assist in keeping the peace. Had Hittler's Germany faced the threat of nuclear attack in response to their decision to invade another country, maybe it wouldn't have happened. To be given the choice of either reversing your unprovoked aggressive action or face biblical levels of destruction, its a pretty persuasive.
But they haven't have they? just resulted in proxy wars that are hugely damaging to humanity.
 
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oldgroaner

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The USA definitely had, or still have if not destroyed as part of a disarmament programme, rucksack sized 20 000 tonne yield devices, weighing in at a little over 20 Kg. Highly portable. They were known as Davey Crocketts and were intended to be used in mainland Europe to destroy infrastructure ahead of an advancing Soviet Army.

Imagine half a dozen of those in the hands of a terrorist organisation. Very easy to get into a country with weak open & boarders.
Or 7,500 miles of Coastline that cannot realistically be defended?
How right you are!
 
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oldtom

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The railways had shunting yards with the train delivered goods carried forward locally by three wheeled Scammell Mechanical Horse tractors pulling semi-trailers
I remember them well as my grandmother's home was close to a shunting yard and those little Scammells were in and out alll day long. They were incredibly useful machines as they could turn on a sixpence and were pretty nippy compared to full-blown, flatbed lorries, many of which were still steam-powered in those days.

They were often referred to as 'fives' on account of the number of wheels when connected to their bespoke trailers. Horse and cart was still a regular sight on our city streets back then as was the sight of GPO telegram delivery boys on their red motorcycles. They were still around till the early 1980s and no wedding ceremony was complete without the reading out of telegrams, many very humorous, congratulating the happy couple.

Ah, nostalgia! Shame it's not what it used to be.;)

Tom
 

oldgroaner

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I,d thought Tactical Nuclear Weapons were envisaged to be used against deep bunkers. ( or the masses of Russian tanks) A low yield bomb was combined with a penetrating missile...the resultant " earthquake" destroyed the deepest of bunkers. Attaching nuclear bombs to tank shells was just a myth...as far as I,m aware. DU shells are unfortunately common. Tons of the things were used in Kosovo. Produces deadly gases on burning and will contaminate region for years.
Wrong as usual

The first M65 was named Atomic Annie. On May 25, 1953, Annie fired an MK-9 atomic shell. It flew seven miles before exploding at a height of 524 feet above the ground.

Later systems included the Corporal missile, the M110 and M115 howitzers and the Davy Crockett missile. The Davy Crockett had a disconcerting [to its users] range of only 1.25 to 2.5 miles and a yield equivalent to 10-20 tons of TNT.


W54 Nuclear Warhead for Davy Crockett
This is about the satchel bombs which are pretty large


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suitcase_nuclear_device
let us hope they are all safely under lock and key and properly guarded!
 
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Zlatan

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Yes but there hasn't been a war like WW2. The Russians and Chinese and North Koreans have not attacked Europe.
 
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flecc

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Its not quite that simple Flecc. The DU shells if left undisturbed are exactly as you describe but unfortunately that's not normally the case. The tank hit will burst into flames creating clouds of radio active smoke. If that's breathed chances are you will at some stage develop cancer. The smoke settles on ground etc and finds a way into food chain in a way it would not normally. Yes, if DU shell struck earth and was simply left...well that's putting the stuff back where it came from...not in our lungs or food. We dont know how much represents the two scenarios.. Besides with reactive armour I,m not sure DU gives any benefits.
And the background radiation can be unaltered even when there are high local concentrations. Collecting the uranium and concentrating it in one place, for kids to play near years later, could easily be dangerous without affecting overall background. I think there are lawsuits starting from USA military personnel who had to handle DU shells ??? Its not healthy however we look at it.
But the great majority of the radioactive content, even where concentrated and no matter what the circumstance, is as I've said, at the lowest level. There's far too much hysteria on this subject. Lawsuits mean nothing without proofs, and independent investigations of the Balkan areas where they were used have shown no lasting harm. They are becoming tourist visiting areas now, like Hiroshima and Chernobyl.
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Zlatan

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Wrong as usual
I think this was dismissed as propoganda OG. They couldn't get " bomb* to cope with acceleration in barrel...but who knows. Could be.( but not in 1953)
And you dont have to be so confrontational OG.
The Davy Crocket was never intended to be fired from a tank.Its only in last 20 years or so a nuckear warhead has been made light enough to be a projectile from a gun and its doubtful ut could cope with pressure and acceleration involved with a barrel launch. But they might have.
 
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oldgroaner

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I think this was dismissed as propoganda OG. They couldn't get " bomb* to cope with acceleration in barrel...but who knows. Could be.( but not in 1953)
And you dont have to be so confrontational OG.
And you don't have to be so confrontational.
Can I quote you on that? are you implying you have some sort of Patent rights?:cool:
 
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