Brexit, for once some facts.

[Zlatan]

It's one of the many reasons I insist that Tony Blair's "New Labour" was nothing of the sort but just a Conservative variant.

A corruption of democracy solely for the purposes of dishonestly getting into power. Sadly there are still many who believe Labour should return to this path.
.

I agree with that Flecc but there are two important points.
A) The Tony Blair administration was destroyed not as a result of unpopular or unsuccessful policies. Fact is he was a lying scheming PM who has tainted a complete section within our spectrum of politics. We don't want new labour not because it was inherently wrong but because of an individual, an individual who , no matter what folk claim on here, was extremely popular with all sections of society in 1997.
And B.
A pink/ new labour would be far more attractive than current mob..( as long as it wasn't led by Blair)
I,d settle for pink over dark blue any day.

 

[flecc]

And in meantime hundreds of girls were ( and probably still are) being groomed by gangs.( gangs of a particular type ?)

Police failings, plus some local corruption.

That's still no excuse for passing illegal laws though.
.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

And in meantime hundreds of girls were ( and probably still are) being groomed by gangs.( gangs of a particular type ?)

70's DJ's?

(old data I know, but its all 5 seconds on google got me) In 2012/13 there were 23,663 recorded sexual offences against children across the whole of the UK. Some 19,112 of those were recorded by police in England and Wales, including 6,296 rapes.

But yes of course they were all committed by a particular type... called

CRIMINALS

 

[oldgroaner]

Nobody posts or reads more Tory articles than you do.
And as normal you miss the point and regress to insults.
" enemies of the people" You sound like Wolfy and his Tooting popular front.

How else can they be described?

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

 

[Zlatan]

70's DJ's?

(old data I know, but its all 5 seconds on google got me) In 2012/13 there were 23,663 recorded sexual offences against children across the whole of the UK. Some 19,112 of those were recorded by police in England and Wales, including 6,296 rapes.

But yes of course they were all committed by a particular type... called

CRIMINALS

You obviously dont live in Rotherham or Rochdale. But we,ve been here before...its getting OT.
Wr,ve said enough. Dont get me started. Its a topic too close to home.
There were / are thousands unrecorded. Believe me. That is a fact, I assure you.
Many families refused to report to keep situation quiet and because little was done to the criminals. ( many reports were simply ignored by authorities)
But its history. Hopefully. Better left.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

You obviously dont live in Rotherham or Rochdale. But we,ve been here before...its getting OT.
Wr,ve said enough. Dont get me started. Its a topic too close to home.

You're trying to suggest that one religion / race of people are more predisposed to sexual practices that are not considered acceptable in the UK.

It doesn't matter when you live. Its simply racist nonsense, and every time you bring it up, I'll call it out.

I used to live in Stockport, and old white doctor killed lots of people there, and before that I live in Gloucestershire where a certain white couple killed some people.

It doesn't mean that white people are driven by their religion or culture to kill.

 

[Zlatan]

How else can they be described?

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

Who ? The faceless bureaucrats all over Europe or those sitting in Westminster.?

 

[Zlatan]

You're trying to suggest that one religion / race of people are more predisposed to sexual practices that are not considered acceptable in the UK.

It doesn't matter when you live. Its simply racist nonsense, and every time you bring it up, I'll call it out.

I used to live in Stockport, and old white doctor killed lots of people there, and before that I live in Gloucestershire where a certain white couple killed some people.

It doesn't mean that white people are driven by their religion or culture to kill.

No, I,m stating facts and deliberately didn't mention any religion. You are assuming that, not me. There were criminals left unpunished .
End of.
Unfortunately , because of attitudes like yours we are not allowed to state the facts about the criminals.

I have never assumed any predisposition towards illegal sexual activity by any ethnic or religious group. And neither did Lord McDonald or Sarah Champion when both pointed out the nature of the problem our cities are facing.Yet, Sarah had to resign even tho she was saying exactly same as Muslim and Asian community leaders in Rotherham. The entire issue has been covered up, and the only victims are the girls assaulted. Of whom in Rotherham 95% were White / English and in Bradford 75% white/ English. ( and that's only those reported)
Dont tell me I ,m making an issue Racist/ Religious when it plainly is to start with.( And the entire Muslim / Asian community to their credit see it as such)

But yes there are other abusers going unpunished. Perhaps my original post should have targeted the whole group rather than the one almost literally on my doorstep. We all tend to focus on things closer to home .

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

No, I,m stating facts and deliberately didn't mention any religion. You are assuming that, not me. There were criminals left unpunished .
End of.
Unfortunately , because of attitudes like yours we are not allowed to state the facts about the criminals.

Facts, what like their gender, height, hair colour, eye colour, religion, postcode, etc etc? None of which have anything to do with the choice to commit a crime.

The fact you think these criminals are from any group, be it age, gender, race, religion, geographic is going to be "ist" of some kind.

They are criminals because of their actions, not their age, gender, height, skin colour, religion etc etc.

The fact you seem to want to blame them all being "x" for their crimes, is an issue with you... not them or society.

 

[flecc]

A pink/ new labour would be far more attractive than current mob..( as long as it wasn't led by Blair)
I,d settle for pink over dark blue any day.

I think your natural ground is probably Liberal, but of course with our first past the post system it's a wasted vote.

I'm more in favour of restrained socialism in the Social Democrat mould.
.

 

[Zlatan]

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Rotherham MP Sarah Champion: Left ‘failing to confront truth of sex crimes’
Sacked Labour frontbencher accuses her party

Andrew Norfolk
September 2 2017, 12:01am, The Times

Sarah Champion says London and the north of England have differing attitudes towards race and that segregation is still present in many post-industrial townsVICTOR DE JESUS
The “floppy left” is failing vulnerable children because it will not confront the race factor in sex crimes involving street-grooming, according to a Labour frontbencher sacked for speaking out on the issue.

Sarah Champion attributed her party’s squeamishness to a liberal fear of being falsely branded racist.

The MP for Rotherham was dismissed from the shadow cabinet by Jeremy Corbyn last month after she wrote in an article for The Sun that Britain “has a problem with British Pakistani men raping and exploiting white girls”.

A few days later Mr Corbyn accused the newspaper of inciting Islamophobia and stigmatising “entire communities”. Ms Champion’s departure from the Labour front bench led to claims that the party was stifling free speech.

This is article from the Times KTM.So much for free speech. We are burying our heads in sand over this. I dont see SC as a racist. You must do, she is only reporting what was (is?) going on.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

The MP for Rotherham was dismissed from the shadow cabinet by Jeremy Corbyn last month after she wrote in an article for The Sun that Britain “has a problem with British Pakistani men raping and exploiting white girls”.

Totally correct..... but as I keep saying, they might be british pakistani... but that's not the reason they are doing it.

This crime isn't restricted to any of the three groups is it? Being British doesn't make you a criminal, being British Pakistani doesn't mean your more or less likely to groom girls, and equally being Male doesn't mean ....

So yes, this group are British Pakistani. But that isn't the reason for their crimes. That's just their social group.

Its like the group of old men who robbed that bank. There were no British Pakistani men in their gang, because I doubt they knew any! They same for the gang in Rotherham.

Their victims where vulnerable white girls... this could and is most likely to be that case because there are less vulnerable british pakistani girls; (and I've work in many schools in Oldham so I know this to be a fact!).

Quoting an article by a women who got sacked for saying racist things doesn't support you case I'm afraid.

 

[SHAN]

many reports were simply ignored by authorities

This is the problem, and add covered up as well. I have read the report fully, surrounding the horrendous circumstances of this case, and the biggest fault was the "system". There are laws in this country to protect children, regardless of status, ethnicity or religion, and these were ignored by the very people who should have enforced them. Families were threatened with action for wasting police time, because they repeatedly reported what was going on and nothing was done. Its not a race or religion problem. That's just a handy tag for bigots with an agenda, who quite conveniently forget about the actions of Smith and Savile.

 

[Zlatan]

( In response tto KTM's post)

Agreed, but I don't think it was racist. Jeremy Corbyn did. She stated the truth.

All the men so far prosecuted from the gangs were Muslim.

In Rotherham all the girls ( 95%) were white English.

I,m not putting a racist/ religious aspect to this topic. The criminals did. Looking for reasons why might help eradicate this particular situation. Instead, the people wanting that discussion have been subdued, sacked or called racist.

Or perhaps you know why only white girls were targeted.? Please tell us. I have no idea. Have the men been asked ? It was not random selection of victims.
Or are you saying there was no racist/ ethnic/ religous aspects to this selection? Pure chance ???

Its akin to suggesting Ku Klux Klan had no racist criteria in their selection of victims. If somebody said there was a racial element in KKK would you call them racist ? Its no different . There is a racial element in KKK and there is either a racial; ethnic, or perhaps religious element to mentioned topic. Which, I,m not sure. I,d like to know and for that I get called a racist. ( as did Sarah Champion and Lord McDonald)

All involved wanted an open , frank discussion. The Muslim preachers,the Asian community leaders, our own Sarah Champion merely wanted and the victims just wanted open discussions. That has been censored,partly by authority and partly by cries of racist.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Agreed, but I don't think it was racist. Jeremy Corbyn did. She stated the truth

Well he might know more about what she said. Stating that person x who is x y & indeed z committed a crime isn't racist.... assuming that their race is part of the reasons for their crime is, because it clearly isn't a reason for a crime.

I would suggest that 99.9% of British Pakistani males don't groom white girls. So the reason for their crimes can't be their race.

Maybe all people from Rochdale are into grooming white girls and its just this small group that happened to have been caught because the Police focused on them rather then the white gangs, because the Police are in the white gangs.... oh no wait that doesn't make sense because assuming everyone from a postcode is into something illegal is just as bad as etc etc.

 

[flecc]

they might be british pakistani... but that's not the reason they are doing it.

It's worth noting that even if they were in Pakistan they would be criminals, the relevant laws there being much harsher than ours in the UK.

In Pakistan any intercourse outside of marriage is illegal, so they have no age of consent. The minimum ages for marriage are 18 for males and 16 for females, so the males discriminated against by our standards, since we allow both to marry at 16 with parental consent, or in Scotland without that consent.
.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Or perhaps you know why only white girls were targeted.? Please tell us. I have no idea. Have the men been asked ? They were not random selection of victims.
Or are you saying there was no racist/ ethnic/ religous aspects to this selection? Pure chance ???

Its akin to suggesting Ku Klux Klan had no racist criteria in their selection of victims.

You added this bit after I replied, so I'll reply as you've asked me a direct question.

Things I know from working in a very mixed race education in Oldham, which is similar to Rochdale / Rotherham. One of the lads I work with is from Rotherham, and his dad is a teacher. So we do have some experince in this office.

1) British Pakistani girls are very very very rarely described as vulnerable. You don't find them running away, you don't tend to find them in care, in foster homes, into drugs, hanging out on street corners.

(just to back this up... I've found some data on the numbers)

Race and Ethnicity

AFCARS tracks children’s race or ethnicity.

Point in Time. The following are the races and ethnicities of the estimated 427,910 children in foster care on September 30, 2015:

ƒ 43 percent were White.ƒ 24 percent were Black or African-American.ƒ 21 percent were Hispanic (of any race).ƒ 10 percent were other races or multiracial.8ƒ 2 percent were unknown or unable to be determined.

So you'll notice which group isn't put into foster care in any sort of high %, I wonder why that could be?

So if you live in a town like Rochdale / Rotherham and need vulnerable girls for your sexual gangs to prey on, chances are they are going to be white.

Also if you're based anywhere, and you are in a gang, its going to be made up of your piers, and your social group. So towns where there is a large % of British Pakistani males are likely to find that if they are in a gang they will be divided by social and race, just like in Manchester there is China Town, and the Curry Mile etc etc.

So whilst they might have targeted white girls, because they shall we say preferred them... that makes them racist sort of. It might be a sexual preference. But all we're doing is establishing that they might be racist along with the list of their other crimes.

However saying they did what they did because of their race / religion makes you racist.

Because as you have to admit, there are plenty of British Pakistani males who don't do this. So race / religion can't be the driving factor.

But yes, they could be racist criminals who are anti white, I'm not disputing that.

As with your KKK example... they are racist. Agreed. But saying the problem is whites in the area is racist. The problem is nut job criminals...

 

[oldtom]

This is from the USA but the message applies equally in the UK. Do you know anyone like the creatures depicted in the clip?

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10108489283634429

Tom

 

[oldgroaner]

The clue was in “last 25 years.” Not just this government, but all governments.

PFI was liked by Labour and they used it extensively. I even met a bell-end Labour MP a few weeks ago who was still singing the praises of PFI and advocating that we should be extending its use:- Twat.

Labour hasn't been in power, has it?

 

[oldgroaner]

Who ? The faceless bureaucrats all over Europe or those sitting in Westminster.?

You are at it again, aren't you? what faceless bureucrats? I was referring to Tory politicians who want to throw out the current legislation.

Too hard for you to understand? how and why did you expand on that to include EU officials? they aren't trying to destroy your rights are they?

The Euro politicians are actually behind more progressive laws than the cretins here you seem to desperate to give appalling powers too.