Brexit, for once some facts.

flecc

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Flec I came back to see if you'd commented on my thoughts on Socialism in Sweden. I can't find it anywhere so if you did and I didn't respond back I apologise.
I posted an "Agree" to it, that being my reply. I could have added that I thought that high taxation model works well, but I thought that self explanatory in your post.
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flecc

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I can remember when I was at Uni and a friend of mine dragged me down to the debating society meeting. After about 30 minutes, my only thoughts were: WTF is going on here - people spouting biased shite at each other, just like here.
But isn't that just your biased shite! :D ;)
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Danidl

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I'm more of a doer than a talker. I can remember when I was at Uni and a friend of mine dragged me down to the debating society meeting. After about 30 minutes, my only thoughts were: WTF is going on here - people spouting biased shite at each other, just like here.
.. rather intolerant and short sighted of you, dare I say. Uni was and I hope still is a place for people to experiment with themselves. The budding actors etc joining the dramatic society, the potential solicitors and barristers , (gwad how I used to hate them with their loud mouthed ways and sense of self important privalage... I could hear them in the toilets five stalls away!), the debating societies , the serious languages types and the foodies , Italian society, the small men and large women( curious that), the mountaineering club etc etc. What made Uni more than a technical college was this concept of universitas ...
Seriously look at the debating society as the practical workshops for barristers and journalists. .. not the home for right minded sensible people like techies
 
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Danidl

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Actually I don't remember agreeing to answer any of your questions, but in simple terms I live on the proceeds of a company pension, and have no other investments.
But then I have no debts worthy of the name as we bought the house with cash rather than a mortgage.
Strange then that I feel no jealousy, as you do for the "Scroungers" that wind you up so remarkably.
Frankly I regard the chasing after wealth which you see as a virtue as a weakness, preferring to live a normal life free of jealousy of others.
You really do get wound up with this greed/jealousy thing, don't you?
Why aren't you satisfied with what you already have?
"Socialism in the UK is that it has mutated into a jeleous hatred of ordinary working people who do nothing more than an ordinary job for ordinary pay, but have the sense to plan their financial futures."

Because I pointed out the damage that house price inflation has damaged the nation and you invest in it?
That's not "Jealous hatred" it is simply pointing out that it is not a virtue to damage society in the long term for short term profit.
Perhaps a little thought for planning for the long term financial future of others than yourself wouldn't go amiss?
What you are in fact investing in is simply a bad idea long term.
There are three levels to our society that need to change their ways.
  1. The Rich that parasite off the rest
  2. The "aspiring" like yourself that invest in schemes that cause long term economic harm
  3. The idle scroungers who need to be found useful and viable long term employment, not seen as a queue of casual labour that can be picked up and dropped at will, and starved and bullied into a sullen compliance.
In other words Society needs to Grow up and stop making a virtue of both greed and idleness.

It appears there has been doubt about second homes in the past
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2013/mar/21/help-to-buy-scheme-exploited-second-homeowners
If you are retired onto a company pension, then as Tilson has indicated, it will be linked to property.. almost certainly commercial property. Companies are required by law to be prudent in their management of pensions, and the people who define prudent look to property as the stable long term investment with a known rate of return. In deed in Ireland it appears that the law requires commercial property to have only upward only rent reviews !! .. it may have changed recently. But it is a reason why some retail operations declare bankruptcy, so that they can trade under a different name.
 
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flecc

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Uni was and I hope still is a place for people to experiment with themselves.
I thought that was puberty.

The budding actors etc joining the dramatic society, the potential solicitors and barristers , (gwad how I used to hate them with their loud mouthed ways and sense of self important privalage... I could hear them in the toilets five stalls away!), the debating societies , the serious languages types and the foodies , Italian society, the small men and large women( curious that), the mountaineering club etc etc. What made Uni more than a technical college was this concept of universitas ...
Seriously look at the debating society as the practical workshops for barristers and journalists. .. not the home for right minded sensible people like techies
And, heaven help us, The Bullingdon Club that David Cameron, Boris Johnson and many others of their ilk were members of at Oxford University.
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Steb

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It’s about supporting and encouraging people who just want to progress through life via hard work. Perhaps that’s the problem some have with it.
Having, mainly accidentally, almost made more from buying a house in London a while back than I earn, I can assure you our distorted, mad property market has - like our economy and its reliance on financial swindling and offshore tax havens - little to do with hard work or progressing through life. And it's not sustainable.
 
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Steb

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I'm more of a doer than a talker. I can remember when I was at Uni and a friend of mine dragged me down to the debating society meeting. After about 30 minutes, my only thoughts were: WTF is going on here - people spouting biased shite at each other, just like here.
Strictly fwiw, in the context of this thread you seem like a natural to me (disagreeing with everyone and labelling what they say shite is a central premise here, once you've mastered that, and you're well on your way, it's like cycling, second nature)
 
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flecc

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Having, mainly accidentally, almost made more from buying a house in London a while back than I earn, I can assure you our distorted, mad property market has - like our economy and its reliance on financial swindling and offshore tax havens - little to do with hard work or progressing through life. And it's not sustainable.
Whilst there's much truth in this, I can't blame Tillson and others from investing in property. We all should save to some extent to protect ourselves against the unexpected and ensure our futures.

Business needs capital to invest and that comes from savings in various forms. Institutions like pension funds can use the stock market over time to retain invested value, but that's usually not practical or safe for individual savings.

So where can individuals save without losing hard earned money? Just look at the present, inflation 3.1% but savings rates around a third of that.

The one place that over time has preserved value has been property, so those who use that avenue like Tillson aren't being greedy, they're just protecting what they've worked for.
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tillson

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I’ve just come across this piece of European nostalgia. This is a screwdriver made by my 16 year old father when he was an apprentice. The connection to Europe is as follows:

The metal shaft is made from the cylinder head bolt of a Rolls Royce Merlin engine. The engine came off an Avro Lancaster which had dropped bombs on Germany. Isn’t that amazing!



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
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Steb

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Whilst there's much truth in this, I can't blame Tillson and others from investing in property. We all should save to some extent to protect ourselves against the unexpected and ensure our futures.

Business needs capital to invest and that comes from savings in various forms. Institutions like pension funds can use the stock market over time to retain invested value, but that's usually not practical or safe for individual savings.

So where can individuals save without losing hard earned money? Just look at the present, inflation 3.1% but savings rates around a third of that.

The one place that over time has preserved value has been property, so those who use that avenue like Tillson aren't being greedy, they're just protecting what they've worked for.
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Yes, and to a point we're all being manipulated by politicians, like Gordon brown and his tax raid on pension funds, making it less attractive, and ultra low interest rates, and returns on savings, that have more to do with avoiding facing up to a distorted economy than fixing anything. I can see that investing in property can seem the only option, but it doesn't make it right or sustainable.
 
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tillson

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Whilst there's much truth in this, I can't blame Tillson and others from investing in property. We all should save to some extent to protect ourselves against the unexpected and ensure our futures.

Business needs capital to invest and that comes from savings in various forms. Institutions like pension funds can use the stock market over time to retain invested value, but that's usually not practical or safe for individual savings.

So where can individuals save without losing hard earned money? Just look at the present, inflation 3.1% but savings rates around a third of that.

The one place that over time has preserved value has been property, so those who use that avenue like Tillson aren't being greedy, they're just protecting what they've worked for.
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This is very true, banks are not paying anything approaching inflationary rates of interest, so by keeping all that you have worked for in a bank, everyday it ebbs away.

I have tried to spread the risk, by investing in property, banks accounts, managed funds, a final salary company pension scheme and shares which I have purchased directly. Property is not something that you should totally rely on, but the risk to return factor is still reasonable.

Incidentally, the last house I purchased triggered the new higher rate of stamp duty for second home owners and of course I am taxed on the rental income, so I am putting a fair bit back into the system.It certainly isn't all one way cash and probably isn't viable on a buy-to-let mortgage basis.
 
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Steb

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I’ve just come across this piece of European nostalgia. This is a screwdriver made by my 16 year old father when he was an apprentice. The connection to Europe is as follows:

The metal shaft is made from the cylinder head bolt of a Rolls Royce Merlin engine. The engine came off an Avro Lancaster which had dropped bombs on Germany. Isn’t that amazing!



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
I can see where you're coming from, but in the spirit of embracing the yin as well as the yang it's worth bearing in mind the Lancaster may have killed countless children and women in dresden.
 
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tillson

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I can see where you're coming from, but in the spirit of embracing the yin as well as the yang it's worth bearing in mind the Lancaster may have killed countless children and women in dresden.
That's very true and a sobering thought. But think how many more would have died if Nazi Germany hadn't been defeated.
 

Woosh

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Property is not something that you should totally rely on, but the risk to return factor is still reasonable.
I usually keep the split 50/50. Direct investment into a business (e-bikes) pays much better and much less risky than letting properties.
 

flecc

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I can see that investing in property can seem the only option, but it doesn't make it right or sustainable.
Here I agree and disagree. I agree it's not sustainable long term, but it is right if investing in property is the only way to avoid losing what one has worked for.

You wouldn't blame someone for protecting their home and other property against thieves of various kinds reducing what they worked for.

So why should they be blamed for protecting against the inflation thief?
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oldgroaner

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I think that is a distinct possibility. We may well need to put up with Corbyn and his economic illiterates for 5 even ten years before this latest generation learns the fundamental rule of life: Central planning does not make a thriving economy.

Whats that old saying - if you're not a socialist in your 20s you don't have a heart - if you're not a conservative by your 50s you don't have a head.
If you ever become a Conservative early onset dementia has set in.
 
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oldgroaner

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I'm more of a doer than a talker. I can remember when I was at Uni and a friend of mine dragged me down to the debating society meeting. After about 30 minutes, my only thoughts were: WTF is going on here - people spouting biased shite at each other, just like here.
Fascinating logical process
If you disagree with something it amounts to biased shite.
Just proves the old saying
"They can make you go to University, but they can't make you think."
 
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flecc

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But think how many more would have died if Nazi Germany hadn't been defeated.
But imagine if we'd all just said to the Germans and Japanese, "That's fine, by all means take over or walk on by, just ask if you need to know where anything is".

That would have saved around 80 million lives worldwide and avoided countless millions of horrific injuries.

Those are what Austria and Switzerland chose to do and I didn't notice them being harshly punished.

The thing is all threatening regimes pass and war against them is often far more costly than letting them defeat themselves, which they always do with time. The reward for any regime is success, but once they've succeeded, eventually the utter pointlessness of their holding an empire they don't need, like or even want dawns and they withdraw.
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oldgroaner

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Here I agree and disagree. I agree it's not sustainable long term, but it is right if investing in property is the only way to avoid losing what one has worked for.

You wouldn't blame someone for protecting their home and other property against thieves of various kinds reducing what they worked for.

So why should they be blamed for protecting against the inflation thief?
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It's not so much about blame, as an acceptance that this is, long term, a very damaging state of affairs to tie so much up in what is after all a nonsense.
 
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