Brexit, for once some facts.

[tillson]

You really don't have any grasp of the point I am trying to make, which is simply this.
Houses have become the biggest liability to the competitiveness of the nation by burying a huge amount of assets to no purpose and driving up living costs out of sight.
Yet here you are trying to sound somehow virtuous in taking advantage of this poisonous and ruinous financial betting shop?
And you still have this notion of hating people who get something for nothing,ignoring the blatantly obvious fact that when house prices rise, you do exactly the same thing!
Glory be! through no effort or work on your part, suddenly you become more wealthy.
Remind me how is that different from the scroungers you denigrate who wait with their hands out for freebies in return for doing no work?
Enlighten me, what is the difference? are you somehow through virtue more deserving?

It’s called investment. Someone asks me to do a job for them because I have a particular skill or talent that will be of benefit to them. At the end, they pay me for the service I provide. What am I supposed to do with the payment? Put it into the mattress?

I take it from your response that you don’t have a bank account, a pension or any form of income other than that for which you must do physical work? If you do have an alternative income, that will be coming from investments, money for nothing as you put it.

The difference between me and the scroungers is simple to define. I got off my arse, worked hard, spent my evening studying to improve my employment prospects and spent my days off working on my business. Now that I am able to retire aged 55, I will spend some of my time trying to pass on what skills I have in the hope that they might benefit others, picking up litter, repairing footpath signs and encouraging people to get more active. By contrast, the scroungers will still be squandering every opportunity thrown at them, will still be scheming to extract as much free money off the state in return for FA and will continue to gain unwarranted sympathy from you.

The scroungers? The only thing which separates me from them is that I try my hardest at all that I do. I’m not prepared to have someone wipe my arse for me. I work hard. Apart from that, we are just the same, made from the same raw materials.

 

[flecc]

Now that I am able to retire aged 55, I will spend some of my time trying to pass on what skills I have in the hope that they might benefit others, picking up litter, repairing footpath signs and encouraging people to get more active.

You're starting what I've been at, just entering my 27th year of voluntary work during retirement after retiring at 54. Similar to your intentions it's been mainly countryside related. I can add to that 28 years of part time voluntary work during my working life, but that was with people.

It's noticeable that those who I see volunteering are usually the employed or retired, never the unemployed.
.

 

[Steb]

It’s called investment. Someone asks me to do a job for them because I have a particular skill or talent that will be of benefit to them. At the end, they pay me for the service I provide. What am I supposed to do with the payment? Put it into the mattress?

I take it from your response that you don’t have a bank account, a pension or any form of income other than that for which you must do physical work? If you do have an alternative income, that will be coming from investments, money for nothing as you put it.

The difference between me and the scroungers is simple to define. I got off my arse, worked hard, spent my evening studying to improve my employment prospects and spent my days off working on my business. Now that I am able to retire aged 55, I will spend some of my time trying to pass on what skills I have in the hope that they might benefit others, picking up litter, repairing footpath signs and encouraging people to get more active. By contrast, the scroungers will still be squandering every opportunity thrown at them, will still be scheming to extract as much free money off the state in return for FA and will continue to gain unwarranted sympathy from you.

The scroungers? The only thing which separates me from them is that I try my hardest at all that I do. I’m not prepared to have someone wipe my arse for me. I work hard. Apart from that, we are just the same, made from the same raw materials.

However, in this narrative one is either a scrounger or hard working. I don't think k its that black and white. I work, not very hard, as much as I enjoy. But I like what I do, I don't mind doing it, as much as I do. And barring something like a massive infarct, I can continue to do it as long as I like, as much as I like. There's nothing wrong with volunteering, I do it occasionally for a charity called ROOF, but I couldn't only do that. I'd be bored utterly stiff. And it's hard to look past the fact that massively inflated property prices - and the fact that every English man aspires to own five houses and think of property as a pension does have something to do with that - damages quality of life and the economy via a ginormous equity bubble we are all hostage too.

 

[Wicky]

...the scroungers will still be squandering every opportunity thrown at them, will still be scheming to extract as much free money off the state in return for FA and will continue to gain unwarranted sympathy from you.

The scroungers? The only thing which separates me from them is that I try my hardest at all that I do. I’m not prepared to have someone wipe my arse for me. I work hard. Apart from that, we are just the same, made from the same raw materials.

I've worked with one of those fabled scroungers - on benefits after he sustained a life changing head injury abroad at about 30 whilst teaching EAFL and his mother had to sell the family home to pay for his care & rehabilitatiion here in the UK. Lived in a rented bungalow semi-independantly by himself after his mum died - landlord charged the maximum for frankly a shithole that he did the absolute legal minimum to maintain so he could to sustain the profitability.

Then the tories introduced bedroom tax so it came very close to him being thrown out, as his mum's old bedroom made it unsustainable as housing benefit didn't meet the rent - he was only saved from being homeless as he started getting his pension that helped offset the difference in rent. As soon as that crisis was over the government reviewed his benefits and threatened to cut them as they suddenly didn't believe he was disabled enough for their satisfaction - my independently minded client didn't help as he liked to show off what he could do - tie his shoeslaces one-handed, and not use stair lifts perservering with somehow manging to walk up stairs despite palsy down one side of his body etc.

A few years after that he tragically took a turn for the worse and when he shuffled off this mortal coil I think he was quite relieved and unburdened to be away. He didn't smoke, didn't drink (apart from when the church dropped a bottle of Jesus juice round once with disastrous consquences due to his tee total nature) and his only vice was he liked strawberries all year round. No bigscreen TV as his head injury meant he couldn't fully comprehend spoken language or read or write (despite being degree educated) though he still loved music Classic FM esp. He also had no immediate family.

Alongside to him I had a 'scrounger' client a lovely plumber chap who for health reasons couldn't continue working who literally committed suicide on the operating table by committing to an an operation with only a slim chance of success - rather than keep dealing with the benefits system.

Meanwhile for the 'worthy' folk...

Carillion bosses had bonuses protected

Carillion introduced new rules to protect bonuses paid to bosses just months before an £845m profit warning sparked a nosedive in its share price.
An investigation by the Daily Mail revealed that Carillion’s pay policy wording was changed to make it harder for investors to claw back bonuses paid to directors.

Previously bosses could have been forced to hand back their annual bonus and share awards in ‘circumstances of corporate failure’.

But in the 2016 annual report the claw back rules were tightened to two circumstances – if results have been misstated or the participant is guilty of gross misconduct.

The Mail said that chief operating officer Richard Howson has made £1.9m in cash and share bonuses during his tenure while ex-finance chief Richard Adam has received £2.6m.

 

[tillson]

I've worked with one of those fabled scroungers - on benefits after he sustained a life changing head injury abroad at about 30 whilst teaching EAFL and his mother had to sell the family home to pay for his care & rehabilitatiion here in the UK Lived in a rented bungalow semi-independantly by himself after his mum died - landlord charged the maximum for frankly a shithole that he did the absolute legal minimum to maintain so he could to sustain the profitability.

Then the tories introduced bedroom tax so it came very close to him being thrown out as his mum's old bedroom made it unsustainable as housing benefit disn't meet the rent - he was only saved from being homeless as he started getted his pension that offset the difference in rent. as soon as that crisis was over the government reviewed his benefits and threatened to cut them as they suddenly didn't believe he was disabled enough for their satisfaction.

A few years after that he tragically took a turn for the worse and when he shuffled off this mortal coil I think he was quite relieved and unburdened to be away. He didn't smoke, didn't drink (apart from when the church dropped a bottle of Jesus juice round once) and his only vice was he liked strawberries all year round. No bigscreen TV as his head injury meant he couldn't fully comprehend spoken language or read or write (despite being degree educated) though he still loved music. He also had no immediate family.

Alongside to him I had a 'scrounger' client a lovely plumber chap who for health reasons couldn't continue working who literally committed suicide on the operating table by committing to an an operation with only a slim chance of success - rather than keep dealing with the benefits system.

Meanwhile for the 'worthy' folk...

Carillion bosses had bonuses protected

Carillion introduced new rules to protect bonuses paid to bosses just months before an £845m profit warning sparked a nosedive in its share price.
An investigation by the Daily Mail revealed that Carillion’s pay policy wording was changed to make it harder for investors to claw back bonuses paid to directors.

Previously bosses could have been forced to hand back their annual bonus and share awards in ‘circumstances of corporate failure’.

But in the 2016 annual report the claw back rules were tightened to two circumstances – if results have been misstated or the participant is guilty of gross misconduct.

The Mail said that chief operating officer Richard Howson has made £1.9m in cash and share bonuses during his tenure while ex-finance chief Richard Adam has received £2.6m.

Different things, different needs, different individual circumstances to what we’ve been discussing.

 

[Steb]

Different things, different needs, different individual circumstances to what we’ve been discussing.

But that may be the point, you may be generalising invalidly, when every "scroungers" circumstances are different..

 

[Wicky]

Different things, different needs, different individual circumstances to what we’ve been discussing.

Why? he was on benefits that the govt deemed him unworthy to be in receipt off. Daily Mail and their ilk would view him as a scrounger

Heck you wrote "Apart from that, we are just the same, made from the same raw materials." he was just like you or me but a bit wonkier due to being in the wrong place at the wrong time and he fell into a Dickensian fall from relatively middle-class comfort, with a kicking him while down from Tory policy, that amazingly can happen even in the 21st century.

If you don't believe me I suggest you volunteer at a food bank to see if you can put them right.

 

[tillson]

Why? he was on benefits that the govt deemed him unworthy to be in receipt off. Daily Mail and their ilk would view him as a scrounger

Heck you wrote "Apart from that, we are just the same, made from the same raw materials." he was just like you or me but a bit wonkier due to being in the wrong place at the wrong time and fell into a Dickensian fall from grace, with a kicking him while down from Tory policy, that amazingly can happen even in the 21st century.

If you don't believe me I suggest you volunteer at a food bank to see if you can put them right.

Someone unfortunate enough to find themselves in the circumstances you describe through accident, illness, redundancy or other happening beyond their control are the benefit recipients who need and should receive help. That’s what the welfare system is for.

Unfortunately, the people for whom benefits are intended are being short changed because there is a whole bunch of others who see it as free money. Able bodied people who would rather sit around all day in pi$$ stained Y fronts, or squeeze out babies to multiple absent fathers rather than work. They are stealing money off those who need supporting. Like those I refer to above. They, the idle, are the real villains of the plot.

 

[tillson]

Why? he was on benefits that the govt deemed him unworthy to be in receipt off. Daily Mail and their ilk would view him as a scrounger

Heck you wrote "Apart from that, we are just the same, made from the same raw materials." he was just like you or me but a bit wonkier due to being in the wrong place at the wrong time and he fell into a Dickensian fall from relatively middle-class comfort, with a kicking him while down from Tory policy, that amazingly can happen even in the 21st century.

If you don't believe me I suggest you volunteer at a food bank to see if you can put them right.

See #26229

 

[Wicky]

If you see or suspect these widepread single mums & beer swilling scroungers then simply report them on the benefits hotline.

https://www.jobcentreguide.org/claiming-benefits/30/reporting-benefit-fraud

If you want to report the fraud online it is possible to download this form – Complete Benefit Thieves Reporting Form, which is found on the Department for Work and Pensions website. This form will give you the chance to provide a huge amount of information about the person committing the fraud up to and including their description, the type of car they drive (electric bike they ride ;-) and exactly what benefit fraud they are guilty of. If they are guilty of more than one benefit you can fill in multiple reports.

 

[Danidl]

If you see or suspect these widepread single mums & beer swilling scroungers then simply report them on the benefits hotline.

https://www.jobcentreguide.org/claiming-benefits/30/reporting-benefit-fraud

Should widespread single mums not be encouraged to diet?. And I have always thought that swilling beer or anything else was a waste of a resource... Perhaps they might be encouraged to drink it?.

 

[Wicky]

An old comprehensive school friend beat the benefits system due to his ambition. He was academically bright, looked like a portlier very of Michael Caine but coming from a working class background on a particularly rough council estate with a leaning to history, his opportunities were limited esp his kindly soft and fluffy delusion ambition to one day be Lord of the name of the shameless like council estate.

One day in his tweens armed with 3 moderate A'levels in the timeth of Thatcher and gis a job Yosser Hughes he was standing the queue to sign on when unexpectedly the benefits folk on the other side of the toughened glass seperated counter took pity on him and gave him a job on their side. He rose with rapidity through the ranks, despite earning trouble for himself by telling the claimants what monies they were actually entitled to, became a civil service manager of his office, and promptly took early retirement at 50.

He now volunteers as a Magistrate lording (and loving it) it, in the style he could only dream, over beer swilling single mums from his old home council estate.

They should make a movie of it.

 

[oldgroaner]

Someone unfortunate enough to find themselves in the circumstances you describe through accident, illness, redundancy or other happening beyond their control are the benefit recipients who need and should receive help. That’s what the welfare system is for.

Unfortunately, the people for whom benefits are intended are being short changed because there is a whole bunch of others who see it as free money. Able bodied people who would rather sit around all day in pi$$ stained Y fronts, or squeeze out babies to multiple absent fathers rather than work. They are stealing money off those who need supporting. Like those I refer to above. They, the idle, are the real villains of the plot.

Although they have far less damaging long term effect on the economy than do those who invest in the housing bubble or engage in Tax dodging, though you would prefer them to be persecuted with slave labour non productive work?.
If they are as numerous as you would have us believe, how do you solve the problem of their existence?
Perhaps starving them out, the new flavour of the month will suit your moral code better?
Where are they going to be employed usefully, and more importantly, how can people like you persuaded to invest in something useful and less socially damaging than the housing bubble?

 

[oldgroaner]

the Express are into Fantasy today
"
Brexit shock: No deal will cost EU £500billion
PRESSURE was last night mounting on the EU to sign a free-trade agreement with Britain after a report revealed that a “no deal” scenario could cost the bloc more than £500billion.
Oh sure....

 

[tillson]

It's noticeable that those who I see volunteering are usually the employed or retired, never the unemployed.
.

From the very few preliminary meetings and training that I have attended so far, I have seen exactly the same thing.

 

[tillson]

Although they have far less damaging long term effect on the economy than do those who invest in the housing bubble or engage in Tax dodging, though you would prefer them to be persecuted with slave labour non productive work?.
If they are as numerous as you would have us believe, how do you solve the problem of their existence?
Perhaps starving them out, the new flavour of the month will suit your moral code better?
Where are they going to be employed usefully, and more importantly, how can people like you persuaded to invest in something useful and less socially damaging than the housing bubble?

1) You still haven’t answered my question regarding your present income. Is it entirely sourced from work that you currently do, or is it from investments such as a pension? If you are in receipt of a pension, it is almost certain that you are benefiting from property investment. So what do you have to say now?

2) Do you have a bank account? If so, how do you think the considerable administration costs are funded? That’s right, you enjoy free or vastly reduced banking administration costs because your money is invested in property and “tax dodging” companies.

3) I’ve made it clear that there exists many people who are unable to work and support themselves and / or their families through circumstances beyond their control. They are the people for who the welfare system was designed and intended and long may that continue with appropriate funding. There also exists a good number of people who have tapped into the welfare system and mine it for free money. Because the welfare pot is not infinite, the latter group are effectively stealing from the needy. It is the latter group who should be tackled by measures such as slashing benefit payments for blatant idleness or squandering opportunities of work & training. The money saved from the cuts which they bring upon themselves should be used to boost the income of the genuine cases.

4) Unless you have no pension, no bank account and no savings, you, I and many others on here are all property investors. What separates me and you is that I choose to manage my own portfolio of investments rather than pay someone to do it for me. I have invested in the stock market, property, a final salary pension scheme (since the day I left school) and conventional savings. I would say that the probability of you having done the same is very high, albeit you have a managed fund.

The problem with socialism in the UK is that it has mutated into a jeleous hatred of ordinary working people who do nothing more than an ordinary job for ordinary pay, but have the sense to plan their financial futures.

 

[tillson]

The problem for me is that I find it a nonsense that someone should be given help to buy another home when they already have one.
Can you actually live in two homes?
'

I must revisit this reference to the government’s help to buy scheme of yours again.

You know very well that you can’t use the scheme to buy a second home. So why did you post those words?

Help to buy has benefitted many young working people. My niece has just moved into her first home as a result of this. She had a low paid job as a waitress which she did for many years & rented a flat. She went to night school and studied hard. Now she is a medical technician in the NHS preparing opening theatres. This together with help to buy has enabled her to have a secure home. Why do your socialist attitudes motivate you to deliberately report this scheme as being something which is bad?

 

[Woosh]

I am against on the help to buy schemes.
It diverts public funding from traditional low rent social housing.

 

[Steb]

I am against on the help to buy schemes.
It diverts public funding from traditional low rent social housing.

It has more to do with propping up property prices and buying middle class "centre ground" votes than helping anyone

 

[tillson]

I am against on the help to buy schemes.
It diverts public funding from traditional low rent social housing.

It helped my niece, she is a big fan. She wanted the security of owning rather than renting. That’s her choice and she works hard.