Brexit, for once some facts.

oldtom

Esteemed Pedelecer
Yes, but more so NATO and the USA.
NATO is referred to by US military experts as 'NO ACTION - TALK ONLY' and is regarded as a waste of time.

Nevertheless, the US is undeniably the biggest warmonger on the planet. I guess they don't like being part of a co-operative group........sound familiar?

Tom
 

oldtom

Esteemed Pedelecer
Actually I think that is just the type of action a responsible newspaper should take. Talking truth to power and keeping the government on notice.
I'm afraid serious investigative journalists are almost a dying breed today and the self-declared 'Independent' hasn't been noted for such activity over the years.

My point was that while it is welcome to see a newspaper make a stand on this particular issue, why haven't our MPs taken a stand on the matter and defied the whips if necessary?

The Attorney General has shown no interest in the tory government's refusal to adhere to the FOI provisions enshrined in law. So much for transparency! It's not as if the answers to such questions as have been raised are likely to provide foreign powers with military secrets or other sensitive material. Most of the rest of the world knows anyway that we're almost broke and our current direction has us headed straight for hist creek without a paddle.

Roughly half of the HofC, I'm led to understand, are no longer at all happy with the direction of our case for 'Brexit' and the prospects for a successful outcome and an enriched future have been diminishing by the day of late.

'Open government', 'the big society', 'all in it together', 'greater transparency' and other slogans ad nauseum have been the stock in trade of tory pre-election posturing in recent years but when it come down to it, they were all lies, just like the big red bus information.

The opposition parties are failing half the nation by sitting on their thumbs....ultimately, they fail everyone.

Tom
 
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PeterL

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Aug 19, 2017
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I'm afraid serious investigative journalists are almost a dying breed today and the self-declared, 'Independent' hasn't been noted for such activity over the years.

My point was that while it is welcome to see a newspaper make a stand on this particular issue, why haven't our MPs taken a stand on the matter and defied the whips if necessary?

The Attorney General has shown no interest in the tory government's refusal to adhere to the FOI provisions enshrined in law. So much for transparency! It's not as if the answers to such questions as have been raised are likely to provide foreign powers with military secrets or other sensitive material. Most of the rest of the world knows anyway that we're almost broke and our current direction has us headed straight for hist creek without a paddle.

Roughly half of the HofC, I'm led to understand, are no longer at all happy with the direction of our case for 'Brexit' and the prospects for a successful outcome and an enriched future have been diminishing by the day of late.

'Open government', 'the big society', 'all in it together', 'greater transparency' and other slogans ad nauseum have been the stock in trade of tory pre-election posturing in recent years but when it come down to it, they were all lies, just like the big red bus information.

The opposition parties are failing half the nation by sitting on their thumbs....ultimately, they fail everyone.

Tom
Oh dear - no one is listening, I wonder why?

Send in the clowns!
 

flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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Roughly half of the HofC, I'm led to understand, are no longer at all happy with the direction of our case for 'Brexit' and the prospects for a successful outcome and an enriched future have been diminishing by the day of late.
I watched with pleasure the London section of the Sunday Politics program today with London MPs Karen Buck for Labour and Bob Neil for the Conservatives. Both confirmed they voted Remain and that in any second referendum they were emphatic that they would vote Remain again.

Additionally both were in perfect commonsense agreement on every subject discussed and constructively debating best approaches etc. It was a great example of the potential of co-operation in the common interest, in place of the Yah-Boo opposition for the sake of it that so infects our politics. Perhaps that's not surprising, by its nature the inclination to have voted Remain is a co-operative one.

Will we never have the wisdom to adopt proportional representation, which encourages much more of this sensible constructive behaviour?
.
 

Danidl

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Sep 29, 2016
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I'm afraid serious investigative journalists are almost a dying breed today and the self-declared, 'Independent' hasn't been noted for such activity over the years.

My point was that while it is welcome to see a newspaper make a stand on this particular issue, why haven't our MPs taken a stand on the matter and defied the whips if necessary?

The Attorney General has shown no interest in the tory government's refusal to adhere to the FOI provisions enshrined in law. So much for transparency! It's not as if the answers to such questions as have been raised are likely to provide foreign powers with military secrets or other sensitive material. Most of the rest of the world knows anyway that we're almost broke and our current direction has us headed straight for hist creek without a paddle.

Roughly half of the HofC, I'm led to understand, are no longer at all happy with the direction of our case for 'Brexit' and the prospects for a successful outcome and an enriched future have been diminishing by the day of late.

'Open government', 'the big society', 'all in it together', 'greater transparency' and other slogans ad nauseum have been the stock in trade of tory pre-election posturing in recent years but when it come down to it, they were all lies, just like the big red bus information.

The opposition parties are failing half the nation by sitting on their thumbs....ultimately, they fail everyone.

Tom

It may be different over there, but here, the AG is basically the government's in house solicitor. .. gives advice, tries to keep the government out of court, but that's it, cannot dictate.

I had picked up on your flustration with the MPs , who actually should have the power to do so.
Can your government ignore court orders?
 
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oldgroaner

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You might not believe me, but they are reliable friends. Only the politicians get in way at times. I suspect we will continue to need one another (all three of us) for a long time yet. Four even, could never forget Canada.
American can be relied upon to use us and discard us wen it sees fit, if ever there was a country to stay clear of they are it!
 
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oldgroaner

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From the Express
"
Met Police to 'cut shoplifting and criminal damage investigations' in bid to save £400m
MET POLICE will be told to choose which crimes to investigate and which ones to leave drop as budget cuts force police chiefs to prioritise resources."

And this too!"
Hammond's BREXIT TAX: Chancellor to target pensioners in 'radical' bid to boost economy
PHILIP Hammond could launch an attack on pensioners in his budget as he desperately tries to hang on to his job following accusations of sabotaging Brexit."


That will kill enthusiasm won't it?
 
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Woosh

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May 19, 2012
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flecc

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MET POLICE will be told to choose which crimes to investigate and which ones to leave drop as budget cuts force police chiefs to prioritise resources."
Here in London we know this only too well. They've been doing this for years to save money, only acting seriously on crimes the government wants dealt with, primarily terrorism and historic sex crime.

And the reasons for those are easy to understand. Terrrorism because politicians are themselves primary targets, remember the Brighton bombing of the Tory party conference hotel and MP Airey Neave being blown up at the Houses of Parliament, not to mention Guy Fawkes.

And historic sex abuse because it costs almost nothing to investigate. Just encourage people to come forward and make a statement, simple, job done.
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Woosh

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there is an entertaining article in the Independent today:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/comment/brexit-comes-to-pooh-corner-as-terri-may-demands-chistopher-grayling-replaces-remainer-christopher-a8002586.html

The Scene: Pooh Corner. It’s a cold winter’s day and the inhabitants are sat together under the branches of a tree, trying to ward off the chill. Winnie-the-Pooh is absent and there is no sign of Tigger or Kanga.

They look a trifle perplexed when instead of the youthful Christopher a balding bloke in a suit gambols up to them with a sunny smile.

Piglet: “Who are you? And where’s Christopher Robin?”

The balding bloke: “What ho chums! I’m Christopher Grayling. Terri May sent me down here to replace that other Christopher because he’s not being sufficiently positive about Brexit.”

Piglet: “Well that’s you screwed Eeyore. You’re the biggest Remoaner of the lot of us.”

Eeyore, sighing heavily: “Is that any wonder? What’s there to be positive about. Poor Pooh’s spent the last two days sleeping outside Sainsbury’s in an attempt to buy honey.”

Christopher Grayling, still with a gormless smile on his face: “Did you not hear what I said on the BBC. It’s not a problem. We’re growing more British food. You lot need to show some enthusiasm for this great project of ours. Why can’t you be like Tigger? Or Kanga?”

Eeyore: “Yes. Tigger and Kanga. They weren’t daft enough to give up their dual nationalities after the vote. They’ve decided, having looked at the mess you lot have made, that they’re better off elsewhere. So no more Tigger bouncing around to cheer everyone up. He’s gone over to Hong Kong and got himself a job with HSBC. By the way, Piglet, did you have any luck with ancestry.com?”

Piglet: “No. I couldn’t find a trace of Irish blood in my family tree. I though I might get lucky with my grandma, but it turns out she was from Cleethorpes, not Cork, so no passport for me. I’m stuck here with you and Pooh.”

Eeyore: “Bad luck.”

Christopher Grayling: “Look this just isn’t good enough. You’re talking Britain down, you know. Beloved children’s characters like you are supposed to be cheerful!”

Eeyore: “I’ve never been bloody cheerful in my life. Anyway, arem't you the bloke who compared Moss Side to The Wire? What’s cheerful about that?”

Christopher Grayling: “Right, I’ve just about blooming well had enough of this. I’ve got one of those new fangled iPhones here. You lot are going to listen to a Boris Johnson speech about how great Brexit is and how great Britain is and how great our economy is going to be. That’ll get you sorted out.”

Eeyore’s face looks more doleful than ever. His huge ears stuff themselves into their sockets.

Piglet: “You really must teach me how to do that one day. Oh look! Here’s Pooh!”

Winnie-the-Pooh trudges towards them, clutching an empty pot of honey.

Eeyore removes his ears from their sockets having watched Christopher Grayling try and fail to get his bluetooth speaker working. He battles to keep his gormless smile in place.

Pooh: “Who’s this?”

Piglet: “It’s Christopher Grayling. Apparently Terri May has ruled that even children’s novels and cartoons have to be positive about Brexit. So he’s been sent here to replace Christopher Robin.”

Pooh fixes Christopher Grayling with an appraising look. There is a pause as the cogs in his brain move.

Pooh: “I remember now. This is the berk who said we’d just grow more food if we crashed out of the EU and their's got really expensive to buy while Terri May was pandering to the Britain’s full up brigade. Did it not occur to you, Chrisopher, that it’s all very well to talk about growing more food but the farming sector is staffed by immigrants? If you don't let them in there's no one to harvest it and you’re…”

Piglet: “Pooh! We're children’s characters! We're not allowed to swear!”

Pooh: “Sorry. Sorry. I’ve just spent the last 48 hours queuing outside Sainsbury’s for a pot of honey and of course they’ve run out. Still, bears are omnivores so…”

Suddenly there is a sound not unlike the one in the film when Wolverine extends his adamantium claws. A low and ominous growling can be heard.

Eeyore, aghast: “Where did they come from?”

Piglet: “Pooh… Pooh… Look Christopher Grayling, if I were you I’d take your positivity and…

Christopher Grayling: “Yes?”

Piglet: “RUN.”

They watch as Pooh chases Christopher Grayling over a hill.

Piglet: “D’you think he’ll be alright?”

Eeyore: “Yes. Pooh’s not very quick. And he’s half starved so he won’t be able to keep going for long. Christopher Grayling should count his blessings. Boris Johnson ended up replacing Pete in Pete’s Dragon. I’m told it didn’t go well. David Davis has been run over by Ivor the Engine and I hear Michael Gove is in hiding after he turned up at Hogwarts and Hermione Granger tried to turn him into a weasel."

Piglet: “Isn’t that what he is already?”
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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Has the EU ever really been our friends ? Non ?
Once General de Gaulle was out of the way, they always have been our friends. The problem has been that we've not fully accepted that friendship, just wanting to take the benefits while not contributing our share of the costs and not co-operating in the development of the union. That's not friendship, it's taking advantage and they are reasonably hurt by that attitude.
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Woosh

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Yes but we have never really been theirs, dishonesty has been rife in official dealings with them, and reporting what goes on, hasn't it?
if we can't play fair, more reasons to leave, don't you think?
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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if we can't play fair, more reasons to leave, don't you think?
That's true, but I'd rather they'd refused to have made any of the past concessions they have made and expelled us if we'd got bloody-minded in response.

That would have engendered a greater sense of realism in the English population, many of whom are at present living in cloud cuckoo land.
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