Bosch bearings

[Deleted member 4366]

What we need is a few Bosch, Panasonic, Bionx 'whatever' specialists who are prepared to work on these failures around the country.

Where would they get the parts from?

 

[flecc]

Where would they get the parts from?

Indeed, and the Panasonic units having sealed into the crankcase and heavily encapsulated electronics are designed not to be repaired.
.

 

[LEBC Tom]

Where would they get the parts from?

The same way gearbox rebuilders, engine, body and chassis rebuilders source theirs in the car game do: recycled, reconditioned and sourced direct from the component makers, second hand... It isn't direct from car manufacturers in general. But the size of that industry is much, much bigger and 'ours' wont be if we dont allow it to grow, we have to shake off this 'geeky' element to 'our' market.

 

[shemozzle999]

Where would they get the parts from?

Where all the spare parts are - the rubbish skip in the back yard of Magura's service department

 

[LEBC Tom]

"Geeky" I meant that lovingly by the way. I own Kit Car Magazine, I’ve spent 20 odd years working on that publication; previously I worked on RallySport and CCC (Cars and Car Conversions) magazines.

The KC market has always wanted to play with the big 'boys' and failed. There are exceptions of course, Gardner Douglas, Hawk Cars, Westfield and of course Caterham Cars who have made it but I see similarities in both industries and that worries me.

I think the E Bike market has so much potential here in the UK, we have an amazing range of products, the Haibikes, Kalkoffs, Wooshes, Roodogs, Kudos & KTM's and there are many more but we are so disjointed as an industry. Stand in my shop for a day and listen to potential customers face to face and you'll understand what I mean.

 

[LEBC Tom]

Alas, Ive ruined this thread.....it always comes down to balls doesnt it? Bosch dont apparently offer this bearing as a spare....but surely at source whilst building this motor or someone dismantling one has it on a work bench some where in the world?

 

[tillson]

Have Bosch actually stated that they will not supply their dealers or customers spare internal parts?

If so, makes the future value of these cycles pretty worthless as they start to wear.
Nobody is going to buy a high mileage one without reasonably priced and off the shelf spares.

I think there is a message coming through here and that message is, "steer well clear of anything with a Bosch motor."

The Panasonic crank motor has the same shortcomings in that it is designed such that the user cannot usually service or repair it, but in the main, the motor gives tens of thousands of trouble free miles. My experience is that 15000 to 20000 miles can be expected, maybe more. A replacement motor can be bought for around £450, so I think that this makes the sealed, non-serviceable concept viable. Of course, this only works if the motor is mature in terms of its development and it is ultra-reliable and durable. The Panasonic crank motor is all of these things and from what I am reading, the Bosch isn't. If I had a barge pole, I wouldn't touch a Bosch motor with it.

As flecc mentions, Panasonic have set the standard with their batteries too. My 10 Ah 24 volt version is still adequate after 6 years and 2 months of frequent use.

It really is a shame that fashion and a craving for, "the latest, latest thing" has seen Panasonic dropped by some of the manufacturers and the biggest UK suppliers.

 

[shemozzle999]

Alas, Ive ruined this thread.....it always comes down to balls doesnt it? Bosch dont apparently offer this bearing as a spare....but surely at source whilst building this motor or someone dismantling one has it on a work bench some where in the world?

Spares list for Bosch motor - I don't know if this is up to date though as access to information is not available to customers:

http://rower.com.pl/download/bosh ebike.pdf

 

[jackhandy]

You are right, a few local ish specialists. I guess given time they may spring up around the country. Lets hope so.

But what would he spend the other 4 days a week doing?

 

[Artstu]

I can of course replace the drive-side bearing for anyone, as long as no other damage has been caused inside the unit.

 

[SRS]

But what would he spend the other 4 days a week doing?

Anything he likes, lawn mower or cycle repairs, run a machine shop, gardening. Who knows!

 

[jackhandy]

Trouble with that is, he's no longer regarded as a speciallist... Just another jackhandy.

 

[RobF]

I think there is a message coming through here and that message is, "steer well clear of anything with a Bosch motor."

The Panasonic crank motor has the same shortcomings in that it is designed such that the user cannot usually service or repair it, but in the main, the motor gives tens of thousands of trouble free miles. My experience is that 15000 to 20000 miles can be expected, maybe more. A replacement motor can be bought for around £450, so I think that this makes the sealed, non-serviceable concept viable. Of course, this only works if the motor is mature in terms of its development and it is ultra-reliable and durable. The Panasonic crank motor is all of these things and from what I am reading, the Bosch isn't. If I had a barge pole, I wouldn't touch a Bosch motor with it.

As flecc mentions, Panasonic have set the standard with their batteries too. My 10 Ah 24 volt version is still adequate after 6 years and 2 months of frequent use.

It really is a shame that fashion and a craving for, "the latest, latest thing" has seen Panasonic dropped by some of the manufacturers and the biggest UK suppliers.

Looks like replacement Bosch motors are available for about £500, so it's the same as the Panasonic.

The Bosch is better in one respect, it can be pulled to pieces, although as we've heard spare parts are hard to source.

http://rower.com.pl/download/bosh ebike.pdf

 

[Artstu]

You can also see them on German ebay for around £300.

 

[JohnCade]

Looks like replacement Bosch motors are available for about £500, so it's the same as the Panasonic.

The Bosch is better in one respect, it can be pulled to pieces, although as we've heard spare parts are hard to source.

http://rower.com.pl/download/bosh ebike.pdf

But it seems that the Panasonic is better in the most important respect. It's reliable and won't need replacing unless you're very unlucky. But this first Bosch is a lemon, and it's not much use being able to take the thing apart if you can't get the parts to fix it.

For all the bullshit and smoke and mirrors about warranties etc. The main issue here is a badly designed unit practically guaranteed to fail in a couple of years, and no spares available even though it is possible to repair it if they were available.

 

[tillson]

But it seems that the Panasonic is better in the most important respect. It's reliable and won't need replacing unless you're very unlucky. But this first Bosch is a lemon, and it's not much use being able to take the thing apart if you can't get the parts to fix it

Very true, which leads me to quote something which I have said in the past, never buy a Mk1 anything.

Time will tell if the Mk2 Bosch is any better, but I do t like the look of that small front chain sprocket. Why have it?

I think that the latest Yamaha motor will be the one to have out of the latest generation motors available to us.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

But it seems that the Panasonic is better in the most important respect. It's reliable and won't need replacing unless you're very unlucky. But this first Bosch is a lemon, and it's not much use being able to take the thing apart if you can't get the parts to fix it.

For all the bullshit and smoke and mirrors about warranties etc. The main issue here is a badly designed unit practically guaranteed to fail in a couple of years, and no spares available even though it is possible to repair it if they were available.

do you have any idea how many Bosch equipped bikes are being ridden around Europe at the moment. Its not a badly designed system, this one has worn faster than expected, but that could be due to many things, mechanical, environmental or anything else.

This bike has done 4000 dongled miles and a bearing has worn.

Its hardly a system you can call unreliable based on this single case. That would have been warrantable had the rider not used a dongle.

As it is he just has to source some bearings.

They are just cartridge bearings. Clearly Bosch don't make the bearings themselves, so it is a part someone makes and sells to Bosch.

So all this guy has to do is now find a bearing. We're not a Bosch dealer and we don't sell to the public, so I'm afraid we're not the answer in this case.

 

[mfj197]

Very true, which leads me to quote something which I have said in the past, never buy a Mk1 anything.

Time will tell if the Mk2 Bosch is any better, but I do t like the look of that small front chain sprocket. Why have it?

I think that the latest Yamaha motor will be the one to have out of the latest generation motors available to us.

Well, apart from the latest Yamaha motor could be called a Mk1, couldn't it? We don't yet know much about it.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

As it is he just has to source some bearings.

They are just cartridge bearings. Clearly Bosch don't make the bearings themselves, so it is a part someone makes and sells to Bosch.

Yes, it's so easy - just a cartridge bearing. If it's that easy, why don't you give us a link to where he can get one from? Myself, and I guess many other forum members have spent hours looking and making enquiries. It's a special bearing. It has no recognisable bearing number. You can't get them from a normal bearing supplier or bearing catalogue - unless of course you can show us where.

Fitting the dongle should have no effect on the wear of the bearing as it doesn't increase the load on it. It's only because you personally don't like them that you're not covering his bike. I bet Martin covers bikes when he sells the owners a dongle. Perhaps he'll confirm.

 

[tillson]

Well, apart from the latest Yamaha motor could be called a Mk1, couldn't it? We don't yet know much about it.

Yamaha have been producing crank motors for a few years now and have a lot of experience to draw on. This latest motor in the next phase in their evolution.