Blind spot

[Zebb]

This is posted on another site I use, just thought I would post it here.
Take a look.

How big is a truck's blind spot? [VIDEO]

 

[flecc]

Yes, it's accentuated by the turn of the tractor unit on an artic. But even on a rigid truck with the best of mirrors, there is a large blind spot from under the left mirrors to well forward of the cab due to the eyeline from the driver over the bulkhead. With heavy cabs forward hinged for engine access, the need for bulkhead strength as the hinge support means much deeper windscreens are not practical.

 

[jackhandy]

That video should be on prime time tv; Hourly, right over Christmas.

That's the best graphic illustration I've seen.

 

[flecc]

ITV did do that exercise and a couple of others to show all the blind spots a couple of years back on a half hour program about road safety and this cycles and trucks issue. They also had a re-enactment of a cyclist going under a truck on a left turn. I don't know how many regions saw it, we had it on at 7.30pm one weekday evening in the London area.

Repeating that would be ideal.

 

[SRS]

Yes, it's accentuated by the turn of the tractor unit on an artic. But even on a rigid truck with the best of mirrors, there is a large blind spot from under the left mirrors to well forward of the cab due to the eyeline from the driver over the bulkhead. With heavy cabs forward hinged for engine access, the need for bulkhead strength as the hinge support means much deeper windscreens are not practical.

Why not move the mirrors forward?

http://www.commercialmotor.com/Media/Default/BlogPost/big-lorry-blog/Bloggymag.jpg

Couple the mirror up with a servo motor and the mirror could turn as the artic turns.

 

[MikeyBikey]

Good idea, "smart mirrors". And how about LHD hgv's, so driver has a better left view.
With glazed doors and cab panels, like diggers and tractors have.
That Renault truck looks almost 'cuddly', if it was 1/10 scale that is

 

[Clockwise]

Tube of you so people don't need to clicky as much.

[video=youtube;SZ8iRVBpz2E]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZ8iRVBpz2E[/video]

Really is a great video. Wouldn't argue with a 10-30sec version being put on youtube as one of the forced to watch ads and some prime time tv slots. Maybe even a top gear in which they see clarkson ride a bike and die, I don't mind him but I know plenty wouldn't mind if he died for a good cause(or any cause).

 

[mike killay]

The best answer is one of those South African flamethrowers that they fit under their cars.
Soon there would be no cyclists going up the inside of lorries.

 

[flecc]

Why not move the mirrors forward?

http://www.commercialmotor.com/Media/Default/BlogPost/big-lorry-blog/Bloggymag.jpg

Couple the mirror up with a servo motor and the mirror could turn as the artic turns.

The problem in most cases isn't with artics, all the recent deaths were with rigids.

The blind spot on a rigid can't be covered with a forward mirror without it being so far forward and so large that it would impede the driver's view into left turns.

As for the other suggestion above for multiple windows, I repeat what I said about the tilting cab complex rigidity needs on forward control trucks. Additional door windows are on some trucks but don't cover the long blind spot just forward of the left mirrors.

Finally, once again I point out that a 20mph cyclist can travel from hidden behind the tailboard of a rigid into the blind spot in less than one second. A driver turning into a side road cannot spend every second staring into left hand mirrors, he has to drive the truck, not ride the bike as well to compensate for stupid cyclists.

 

[SRS]

The problem in most cases isn't with artics, all the recent deaths were with rigids.

The blind spot on a rigid can't be covered with a forward mirror without it being so far forward and so large that it would impede the driver's view into left turns.

As for the other suggestion above for multiple windows, I repeat what I said about the tilting cab complex rigidity needs on forward control trucks. Additional door windows are on some trucks but don't cover the long blind spot just forward of the left mirrors.

Finally, once again I point out that a 20mph cyclist can travel from hidden behind the tailboard of a rigid into the blind spot in less than one second. A driver turning into a side road cannot spend every second staring into left hand mirrors, he has to drive the truck, not ride the bike as well to compensate for stupid cyclists.

Why not fit a couple of sensors on the side of the vehicle?

If the rear sensor is triggered then another further forward, this would indicate something coming up the inside.

At the end of the day, I agree that it is the cyclists responsibilty not to come up the inside of these trucks.
The fact is, some people do and any technology that could warn of their presence may help save these people.

I'd rather see aerial cycle ways away from traffic but until that day comes we need to look at every angle to prevent pointless deaths.

 

[OldBob1]

How about windscreen type water jets down the side of the wagon that can be activated on entering towns and city's and works in conjunction with the indicators.
The water could also be given additives for smell or dyes

 

[jackhandy]

Purely out of interest...

Anyone know if these left-turn type accidents are a national problem, or do they mostly/exclusively happen in the cities?

 

[flecc]

They mainly occur in the cities, simply because that's where cyclists tend to ride close alongside other vehicles in the congested traffic conditions.

 

[flecc]

Why not fit a couple of sensors on the side of the vehicle?

It's not possible in cities since there would be continuous false alarms from pavement edge railings, post boxes, posts for signs etc as a truck passed them.

We have part of the answer to the problem as the sudden cessation of these deaths show, the cyclists have got the message from the huge amount of publicity on the issue and are avoiding the danger spots.

What remains to prevent the remainder of these accidents is to send the message to large vehicle drivers that if a cyclist is in a traffic lane, it's their lane and the driver should not pull up alongside. Their legitimate actions are either to overtake if there's room to completely pass, or stay behind.

 

[SRS]

It's not possible in cities since there would be continuous false alarms from pavement edge railings, post boxes, posts for signs etc as a truck passed them.

s

Flecc, I think you have missed my point.

Post boxes etc would trigger the front sensor/s before the rear and not action a driver warning.

Cyclist coming up the inside of a stationary vehicle would activate the rear sensor/s before the front. This would action a driver warning.

So simple if it were my business I'd design and market such a system tomorrow.

 

[MikeyBikey]

The problem in most cases isn't with artics, all the recent deaths were with rigids.

The blind spot on a rigid can't be covered with a forward mirror without it being so far forward and so large that it would impede the driver's view into left turns.

As for the other suggestion above for multiple windows, I repeat what I said about the tilting cab complex rigidity needs on forward control trucks. Additional door windows are on some trucks but don't cover the long blind spot just forward of the left mirrors.

Finally, once again I point out that a 20mph cyclist can travel from hidden behind the tailboard of a rigid into the blind spot in less than one second. A driver turning into a side road cannot spend every second staring into left hand mirrors, he has to drive the truck, not ride the bike as well to compensate for stupid cyclists.

The problem is with ALL trucks, coaches, etc not fitted with right mirrors.
If the blind spot wasn't covered, or if it blocked drivers view, then FWD mirror wouldn't have been officially approved.
Full height windscreens and fully glazed doors and cab sides have nothing to do with rigidity, that's the cab frame/roll cage's job. They would eliminate all blind spots forward of trailer.
Seating driver on Left Hand Side, again, for max left view is obvious.
Again, move railings 1m out, outside bike lane up to Toucan crossing, etc..
Btw, did anyone see truck thrown around like a toy when hit by Freight Train, that was apparently in the drivers blind spot! http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?p=PLo_duJ_Kt_Emw_yo986-iPjYfpPs9kR31&v=kbux-Auv91c&feature=plpp here it is.

 

[flecc]

That would physically work, but in London at least I think that would send drivers nuts due to the sheer numbers involved passing or pulling alongside them. The alarms would be constant at times. It would be "The Boy Who Cried Wolf" situation, something so frequent that it would quickly be tuned out of consciousness.

Traffic queues of stationary or slow moving vehicles are commonplace on London routes, and cyclists pour past on the left all the time. Inevitably some get left alongside at times due to congestion or variations in the vehicle speeds, and it's then that the cyclists have to act in their own interests. That means either riding alongside the rear wheels which is safe or, if preferred and where possible, getting out of the nearside position.

 

[flecc]

The problem is with ALL trucks, coaches, etc not fitted with right mirrors.
If the blind spot wasn't covered, or if it blocked drivers view, then FWD mirror wouldn't have been officially approved.
Full height windscreens and fully glazed doors and cab sides have nothing to do with rigidity, that's the cab frame/roll cage's job. They would eliminate all blind spots forward of trailer.
Seating driver on Left Hand Side, again, for max left view is obvious.
Again, move railings 1m out, outside bike lane up to Toucan crossing, etc..
Btw, did anyone see truck thrown around like a toy when hit by Freight Train, that was apparently in the drivers blind spot! http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?p=PLo_duJ_Kt_Emw_yo986-iPjYfpPs9kR31&v=kbux-Auv91c&feature=plpp here it is.

Once again Mike, full of the irrelevant as your mention of trailer shows, the accidents are predominantly with rigid trucks. The rest is impractical as I know from my truck driving and working experience.

You seem to think that everything should be designed around bicycles, a crazy view in a country where the bicycle is the least used transport of all. A more rational view would be that the tiny minority of cyclists should fit in with the rest, or at least make the effort.

These same trucks are made and used in Europe where they don't suffer all these cyclist accidents, making your idea that it's the trucks and their drivers always at fault a nonsense.
.

 

[Clockwise]

Why not fit a couple of sensors on the side of the vehicle?

If the rear sensor is triggered then another further forward, this would indicate something coming up the inside.

At the end of the day, I agree that it is the cyclists responsibilty not to come up the inside of these trucks.
The fact is, some people do and any technology that could warn of their presence may help save these people.

I'd rather see aerial cycle ways away from traffic but until that day comes we need to look at every angle to prevent pointless deaths.

Unless you plan to line the curbs with something the sensor can sense to give it a range then it's going to show false positives for pedestrians walking on the pavement(where the truck had no intention of going). In the video above all the cyclists and all of the curb/pavement is in the blind spot so how much do you set the sensor to sense? Also once drivers of hgvs start to depend on these sensors is sensor failure going to be an excuse you want to give people for dumbing down drivers? "na need ta check the mirras my motor has them bike sensors"

One suggestion I haven't seen much of is cameras, like the rear mounted cameras for reversing but mounted along the sides to make it more possible to see. One of the things that stands out to me is that the lower mirror is typically about 8 inches square and then viewed from almost 2 meters away so even if you see something what is it? It wouldn't be hard to place a screen of some sort in a better position to make it be seen.

I think the way the camera pans across is also rather accurate for what the driver will see. If he is watching for cyclists 24/7 on one side he will hit a car on the other.

 

[MikeyBikey]

Here's more...http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=LCAwRnG0yho
And here's Volvo's low, glazed cab truck ...Low Entry Cab - Cab variants : Volvo Trucks - United Kingdom & Ireland