Blind spot

[flecc]

What no-one mentions is the need to keep speed up on a cycle. Unlike a motor vehicle, where a momentary slowing down is quickly rectified with a twitch of the foot, a bike takes a lot of effort to accelerate.
Looking at some of the YouTube's of London cycling, I am left wondering just why cyclists speed into danger instead of taking a more cautious approach, and I feel that they are all in such a rush compared with Dutch cyclists, that any slowing down is a no no.
Perhaps we need to encourage slower cycling.
After all, why do London commuter cyclists feel the need to dress as though they were in the Tour de France?
Even here in Swansea, my son complains that his fellow workers who cycle into work, steal a quarter of an hour after arrival while they shower and change, then at going home time, they start 10 minutes early so that they can get changed.
It is this foolish sporting need that leads to high speeds, cutting corners, taking up dangerous positions etc.
Compare this to Holland, where people cycle at 10 mph in their ordinary clothes, and take far more care at hazards.

I wish I could award multiple "Likes" to this post, since it is so precisely relevant to the problem.

 

[peerjay56]

I wish I could award multiple "Likes" to this post, since it is so precisely relevant to the problem.

I'll go +1 on that. Speed is certainly another dimension to the problem, and almost certainly in my view this reluctance to lose momentum is what antagonises motorists the most, resulting in all cyclists being tarred with the same brush. But I don't think all the lgv/cyclist deaths can be attributed to speed; diminished hazard perception and road awareness on the part of cyclists still remain the most significant factor, and all the gadgets in the world attached to as many vehicles as you like won't alter that. On our overcrowded roads, a well developed sense of self preservation is the cyclists best defence. Suitable training would help develop that

 

[peerjay56]

It's the shops. For years now bike shops have been faced with the same questions and given the same answers that profit them the most. Is very rare you will go into a bike shop and be told "don't buy this, it's rubbish" or "this cheaper one is just as good". When you ask in london bike shops they always aim you at the roadie expensive stuff as it brings in the most profit.

bike noob: "hi, I'm new to cycling but I really want the best stuff, will be cycling on roads to work and back, what do I want/need?"
sales person: "well you will want one of these road bikes or a hybrid, some of these jerseys, these cycling shoes, high vis, this light set is on special offer, this D lock we are selling for £15, one of those hats over there whatever matches your clothes, that will be £££"
bike noob: "will this keep me safe on the road?"
sales person: "yes, we sell lots of high vis jackets and most people buy these lights they really make you visible on the road"
bike noob: "awesome, I'm going to get to work so fast now"
sales person: "awesome, I made my months commision tucking this guy right up"

I forget which shop it was but one of them got slammed before for running a huge ad campaign for high vis and lights on the back of a death.

The shops are a symptom, not the cause. The problem lies with our obsession with fashion. "Need the latest, lightest, fastest ". Until cycling becomes mainstream again, as a mode of transport, and not a sport, the shops will continue to cater for the fashionistas.

 

[flecc]

On our overcrowded roads, a well developed sense of self preservation is the cyclists best defence. Suitable training would help develop that

Here's an idea. In London we have the congestion charge where motorists have to accept an extra imposition for the right to drive in that area.

None of us want to see compulsory training and testing for all cyclists, but given how potentially dangerous cycling in London's congestion can be for the unskilled, perhaps the right to cycle in London demands that cyclists be tested, and where they fall short, trained up to standard. Of course that would require photo cycling licences similar to the credit card sized driving one being produced on demand.

If trying this in London was successful in greatly reducing accidents, the same could be adopted by other major urban centres where a cycling safety problem existed.

On the basis that turkeys wouldn't vote for Christmas I doubt cyclists would be happy with this proposal and I admit that it has an element of punishing the innocent to deal with the guilty.

 

[peerjay56]

Here's an idea. In London we have the congestion charge where motorists have to accept an extra imposition for the right to drive in that area.

None of us want to see compulsory training and testing for all cyclists, but given how potentially dangerous cycling in London's congestion can be for the unskilled, perhaps the right to cycle in London demands that cyclists be tested, and where they fall short, trained up to standard. Of course that would require photo cycling licences similar to the credit card sized driving one being produced on demand.

If trying this in London was successful in greatly reducing accidents, the same could be adopted by other major urban centres where a cycling safety problem existed.

On the basis that turkeys wouldn't vote for Christmas I doubt cyclists would be happy with this proposal and I admit that it has an element of punishing the innocent to deal with the guilty.

Yes, but
I would prefer a solution that doesn't involve more regulation. For the life of me I can't think of one - your idea does at least offer the advantage that the ball would be firmly thrown back into the motorists court.

 

[MikeyBikey]

.
1...
2. Technology - A Mandatory, Heads Up Display, based on smartphone type 'Virtual Vision' where linked cameras around truck could give driver 360deg view 'x-ray vision '. Tested regularly. Infrared & UV as well as regular leds in marker lights will help cams pick out cyclists & pedestrians better (see Bus lights).
3...4...5...6.. . Phew, I'm all posted out! . Cheers, Mike

"TfL to trial 360-degree cameras on lorries in bid to end blind spots (+ video)

Technology from ASL360 already being tested on a London bus; makers say "vehicle visibility issues are no longer an excuse"".
TfL to trial 360-degree cameras on lorries in bid to end blind spots (+ video) | road.cc

 

[Clockwise]

"TfL to trial 360-degree cameras on lorries in bid to end blind spots (+ video)

Technology from ASL360 already being tested on a London bus; makers say "vehicle visibility issues are no longer an excuse"".
TfL to trial 360-degree cameras on lorries in bid to end blind spots (+ video) | road.cc

Great news for buses but fitting £3000 worth of gear onto most other things just isn't going to happen, foreign trucks and all sorts on the roads so only a handful of companies will adopt them.

Cynical I know but it's the truth, that or lots of wrecked delivery trucks and other trucks not worth modifying will soon be for sale.

 

[jackhandy]

Boris will, no doubt, soon be levying a "Cycle London" congestion-type charge on bikes using city roads, to pay for this to be implemented.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I don't believe that 360 degree cameras will make any significant difference. The problem is whether the driver actually looks. Blind spots are just an excuse,which let him/her off the hook. Any driver that looks will see the cyclist coming before he/she goes into any blind spot. What about when they're driving along? Don't they see cyclists going up the inside of every other vehicle? Hello!

 

[trex]

fit a proper loud electric horn/siren - that'll get the driver's attentention.

 

[Clockwise]

fit a proper loud electric horn/siren - that'll get the driver's attentention.

Weirdly most drivers associate a siren with pulling towards the curb to give way, you certainly don't want to fit a siren.

 

[flecc]

Any driver that looks will see the cyclist coming before he/she goes into any blind spot.

As I've repeatedly posted, a driver cannot be looking into mirrors, video screen etc every single second through a left turn manouvre, and in just one second many of the faster London commuting cyclists can come from out of view behind a large vehicle into a danger area ahead of the rear wheels alongside. In less than two seconds any can. These are not open road conditions we are speaking of, these are conditions of cyclists swarming all over the place, both sides of vehicles, overtaking each other etc with drivers unable to watch their constant shifts in all the mirrors all the time. It's the sheer manouverability of bikes in traffic which puts them in special danger.

Cyclists haven't been exempted from taking notice of left turn indicators, they aren't exempted from the general rule that one should never overtake at junctions, especially on the left, but one would think they had been from simple observation in London. Like all other road users, they have to be responsible for their own safety by behaving sensibly in relation to other vehicles.

 

[Clockwise]

As I've repeatedly posted, a driver cannot be looking into mirrors, video screen etc every single second through a left turn manouvre, and in just one second many of the faster London commuting cyclists can come from out of view behind a large vehicle into a danger area ahead of the rear wheels alongside. In less than two seconds any can. These are not open road conditions we are speaking of, these are conditions of cyclists swarming all over the place, both sides of vehicles, overtaking each other etc with drivers unable to watch their constant shifts in all the mirrors all the time. It's the sheer manouverability of bikes in traffic which puts them in special danger.

Cyclists haven't been exempted from taking notice of left turn indicators, they aren't exempted from the general rule that one should never overtake at junctions, especially on the left, but one would think they had been from simple observation in London. Like all other road users, they have to be responsible for their own safety by behaving sensibly in relation to other vehicles.

I think it's often missed just how many cyclists we are talking about. Here is some random guys random commute, the first half gives you a good idea of how many cyclists to expect in rush hour traffic with an average of 5 or so cyclists passing/bunching up each time the lights change. Some places at certain times you can find the entire advanced stop box full of cyclists.

[video=youtube;_xNGc3dZpKU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xNGc3dZpKU[/video]

 

[Clockwise]

Another great one, even if a cyclist has been knocked down infront some lemming on a bike will ride into the gap before the other is even standing.

[video=youtube;vrlftYfKDk8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrlftYfKDk8[/video]

Had it been a HGV instead of a small van would the cyclist act any differently? I doubt it given the dance with buses.

 

[MikeyBikey]

Yeah, risky ducking & diving. Strange manoeuvres by the buses too. First in outside lane turning hard left into inside lane, presumably for bus stop. Did driver forget they have to be in inside lane to pick up/drop off passengers? And the second in bus lane turning hard right into outside lane, presumably trying to overtake yet another bus. So apparently bad bus driving too. Now if the bike path went behind the bus stops!

 

[peerjay56]

Yeah, strange manoeuvres by the buses too. First in outside lane turning hard left into inside lane, presumably for bus stop. Did driver forget they have to be in inside lane to pick up/drop off passengers? And the second in bus lane turning hard right into outside lane, presumably trying to overtake yet another bus. So bad bus driving too? Now if bike path went behind bus stops!

Doesn't matter what manoeuvres were being attempted by which vehicle. The cyclist was a knob for riding into the path of the van. He should have held back and let the issue in front get sorted.

 

[Arrow]

Can anybody be in such a hurry that they overtake a bus that has already pulled out then ride into an ever decreasing gap ? Obviously no road sense.

 

[MikeyBikey]

Doesn't matter what manoeuvres were being attempted by which vehicle. The cyclist was a knob for riding into the path of the van. He should have held back and let the issue in front get sorted.

I'm just saying, if it's valid to say the cyclist should have stayed back. Then it's equally valid to say the buses should have stayed in their lane and NOT be racing each other to the next stop, yes?

 

[peerjay56]

I'm just saying, if it's valid to say the cyclist should have stayed back. Then it's equally valid to say the buses should have stayed in their lane and NOT be racing each other to the next stop, yes?

No. There is nothing in the video to suggest the buses are 'racing'. The bus lane clearly ceases to exist just 20m beyond the bus stop. Any bus going straight on has to pull out into the lane the bus was attempting to get into anyway. Even if the bus was going left, he may have a perfectly valid reason for pulling out; the bus in front may have been broken down, may not be scheduled to leave that stop for some time, may be waiting for an ambulance because someone on board has collapsed, maybe waiting for the police because someone has committed a crime, the driver may have got off at a scheduled loo stop... and the list goes on.
The existence of a bus lane does not impose a general requirement that buses, taxis OR cyclists have to use that designated lane. And, even if the driver was just trying to keep to his timetable, at least he was doing so with caution, unlike that cyclist.

 

[flecc]

I'm just saying, if it's valid to say the cyclist should have stayed back. Then it's equally valid to say the buses should have stayed in their lane and NOT be racing each other to the next stop, yes?

No, the bus driver was perfectly entitled to prepare for his move and did nothing wrong. To say the buses were racing just shows how grossly distorted your judgment is on this issue.

That second video shows just how impossible it can be for drivers, the van driver had virtually no chance whatsoever to see the cyclist's idiotic manouvre, and even if he had caught a glimpse of him, no time to react to prevent the collision.