Bike Purchase Advice - 22 Mile (one way) Commute

[mooksy_86]

Just out of curiosity how far is the shortest road distance for your trip to work?

The shortest road distance is 18 miles but.... 10 miles of that is up the A6 which is the most infuriatingly slow, congested and dangerous road in Greater Manchester. I've done it a few times and between lorry drivers trying to assassinate me and still being able to taste petrol fumes three days later I wrote it off under "bad for my health"!

 

[mooksy_86]

Have you looked at Cube?
Among their gazillion models I'm sure there's a couple with hub gears.

I've been having a look at the Cube range for the past couple of hours and I've come across this as a potential candidate https://www.freeborn.co.uk/cube-suv-hybrid-27-5-pro-500-2017 it's got an alfine hub and a Bosch active line motor. As you mention, the dual battery system on the Charger NuVinci would boost the price up to nearly £5k which is way over my budget!

Do you have any knowledge of de-restricting the Bosch active line motors at all soundwave?

 

[Trevormonty]

This cube sounds perfect. Alfine 8spd has good reputation. Just add rack, mud guards lights and good fully enclosed chainguard.(see gazelle arroyo c8)

 

[E-Wheels]

Good point, with all of the considerations about which motor to go for, battery range etc I'd forgotten about the drive train getting full of grime on a daily basis. The Kalkhoff Excite I originally picked out had an Alfine hub and carbon belt for that reason but after all of the posts on here about the "Kalkhoff clack" and them having notoriously problematic motors I cancelled my order.

I haven't called Oxygen to order the bike yet as I need to wait a few days for EBCo to refund the money, so I've got a bit more time to think on it before I commit to anything. Just out of interest what kind of speed to you get out of your New Charger Touring? The old model with the NuVinci hub and 500wh battery is just under my maximum price range http://www.onbike.co.uk/crossbar-electric-bikes/charger-nuvinci.html

Have you considered the Kalkhoff Endeavour Excite N11with the Neodrive rear hub motor
I believe the Neodrive motor has origins to Xion motors which by all accounts were reliable and can possibly be de restricted??
https://www.kalkhoff-bikes.com/en/bikes/2018/e-bikes/e-trekking/endeavour-excite-n11.html?tx_dcwproducts_dcwproductsfrontend[familyUID]=238&cHash=ea780c4c2214eee7ae8cd132a1326e9c

 

[mooksy_86]

This cube sounds perfect. Alfine 8spd has good reputation. Just add rack, mud guards lights and good fully enclosed chainguard.(see gazelle arroyo c8)

Agreed I was just looking at the Chainglider protector that's on the R&M Charger that RobF has, on Amazon funnily enough. Hoping I should be able to re-use the mudguards, rack and lights I have on my Norco Indie as that'll be going up for sale when the new bike arrives.

 

[mooksy_86]

Have you considered the Kalkhoff Endeavour Excite N11with the Neodrive rear hub motor
I believe the Neodrive motor has origins to Xion motors which by all accounts were reliable and can possibly be de restricted??
https://www.kalkhoff-bikes.com/en/bikes/2018/e-bikes/e-trekking/endeavour-excite-n11.html?tx_dcwproducts_dcwproductsfrontend[familyUID]=238&cHash=ea780c4c2214eee7ae8cd132a1326e9c

I'd ordered (and then cancelled) a Kalkhoff originally E-Wheels, but I was put off by the bad reputation they have on this forum and elsewhere. Earlier today I'd pretty much decided a rear hub motor like this one features was the way to go, but then RobF wisely pointed out I'd be using my bike daily on gravel trails. So to avoid excessive maintenance and cleaning grit out of my drive train continually I'd be better of with an internally geared hub. As far as I can tell the IG hubs aren't compatible with rear drive motors. So currently the Cube SUV Hybrid is winning out over all other choices.

 

[RobF]

You should be able to put a Badass dongle on the Cube, which will scramble the display, but so what?

You soon get used to working out the correct speed, if that's important to you.

The Cube in the link has the small Purion display, so plenty of handlebar real estate for a Garmin - and lights.

The Moto X balloon tyres are good for comfort, but it's unlikely the mudguards on your current bike will be wide enough.

I've put the same tyres on the Charger which work well with the supplied mudguards which are SKS - should be in their catalogue somewhere.

Fitting may need some creative thinking, no bosses on the fork so you will need to use bands - sometimes called P clips - and a bracket over the fork bridge.

The rack will need to be a wide-leg disc brake one.

It's not clear from the spec, but I expect the bike will have 650b/27.5" wheels.

The overall circumference of the balloon tyres is about the same as a 29er mountain bike tyre, so a rack and 'guards for a 29er will fit.

 

[mooksy_86]

You should be able to put a Badass dongle on the Cube, which will scramble the display, but so what?

You soon get used to working out the correct speed, if that's important to you.

The Cube in the link has the small Purion display, so plenty of handlebar real estate for a Garmin - and lights.

The Moto X balloon tyres are good for comfort, but it's unlikely the mudguards on your current bike will be wide enough.

I've put the same tyres on the Charger which work well with the supplied mudguards which are SKS - should be in their catalogue somewhere.

Fitting may need some creative thinking, no bosses on the fork so you will need to use bands - sometimes called P clips - and a bracket over the fork bridge.

The rack will need to be a wide-leg disc brake one.

It's not clear from the spec, but I expect the bike will have 650b/27.5" wheels.

The overall circumference of the balloon tyres is about the same as a 29er mountain bike tyre, so a rack and 'guards for a 29er will fit.

Thanks Rob, I found this for tuning the motor which you can set to your own speed restriction with. Looks pretty nifty http://www.speedtuning.eu/en/p/tuning-speedchip-for-bosch-midsize-engines/

I'm still weighing up my options and one thing I've been pondering is how hard is it to pedal one of these things when the battery runs out in your experience?

I'm debating the idea you suggested about picking up a Thorn (a Nomad or Raven) and having it fitted with a front drive hub so that it's still pedalable even if the battery does run out of juice. With that setup I suppose I'd then have the option to take the battery off and switch the front wheels and still use it as a regular touring bike should I choose to.

 

[RobF]

Little or no resistance from the Bosch crank drive and most hub motors when turned off.

You do feel the weight, it's like riding a loaded tourer but often without the appropriate gearing.

Not so bad trundling along on the flat, but any gradient will be a challenge.

No reason not to have a Thorn and use it with an ordinary front wheel.

I can't see the point over using it with the battery left at home.

The extra couple of kilos of the motor isn't going to make much difference in a touring setting.

Probably better to get the conversion with a decent controller which willl allow you to turn the wick right down for distance rides.

 

[mooksy_86]

Not so bad trundling along on the flat, but any gradient will be a challenge.

Probably better to get the conversion with a decent controller which willl allow you to turn the wick right down for distance rides.

That was what I was thought might be the case. It seems this could be the most flexible and reliable option of them all then.

Do you have any suggestions on such kits? I'm having a look at this one right now which looks very easy to install and has a 20mph option, but the 10Ah battery wouldn't be sufficient for even one leg of the commute.

 

[RobF]

That was what I was thought might be the case. It seems this could be the most flexible and reliable option of them all then.

Do you have any suggestions on such kits? I'm having a look at this one right now which looks very easy to install and has a 20mph option, but the 10Ah battery wouldn't be sufficient for even one leg of the commute.

Kits aren't my thing.

My only advice is install it as professionally as possible.

I have a fairly low opinion of Chinese electrics, but there's no doubt many of the many niggles you hear about are down to dodgy wiring or haphazard installation of the pedal sensor or some other component.

Also take quoted ah figures with a pinch of salt.

Whatever the vendors on here say, some Chinese/aftermarket batteries don't give the capacity you might expect from the number stamped on the side.

 

[Woosh]

Whatever the vendors on here say, some Chinese/aftermarket batteries don't give the capacity you might expect from the number stamped on the side.

do you realise that you are tarring all the Chinese e-bike importers here with the same brush? Have you got any proof that any battery that I, Kudos, Amp, Cyclotricity, Edge.Bike or Juicy sell (those present on here) gives less than what is labelled?
Although you don't say that we do, but the inference is 'don't buy Chinese batteries', they are sus.

 

[Artstu]

do you realise that you are tarring all the Chinese e-bike importers here with the same brush? Have you got any proof that any battery that I, Kudos, Amp, Cyclotricity, Edge.Bike or Juicy gives less than what is labelled?
Although you don't say that we do, but the inference is that all Chinese batteries are not as good as.

On the flip-side could we say that Bosch, Shimano and Yamaha don't give full access to all the amp hours in your battery? given they shut down sooner than perhaps other batteries do to extend their life?

So could the reverse be true in some cases? Chinese batteries have more capacity for their stated capacity when compared with the 3 above ?

 

[Woosh]

On the flip-side could we say that Bosch, Shimano and Yamaha don't give full access to all the amp hours in your battery? given they shut down sooner than perhaps other batteries do to extend their life?

So could the reverse be true in some cases? Chinese batteries have more capacity for their stated capacity when compared with the 3 above ?

it's easy to prove by opening the casing. Cells specifications are published, you take the cell capacity in AmpHour, multiply by the number of cells in a row, hey presto.

 

[Artstu]

it's easy to prove by opening the casing. Cells specifications are published, you take the cell capacity in AmpHour, multiply by the number of cells, hey presto.

That may well be. however you've missed my point entirely, I had thought you might have known what I was talking about.

 

[Woosh]

the cell manufacturers guarantee the minimum capacity within the working range. In the same way, I am practically certain that Bosch, Shimano and Yamaha set the working range to be at least capable of delivering what is promised on the label. They restrict what can be used to prolong the life of their batteries while still delivering what is promised. It's in the customers' interest.

 

[RobF]

do you realise that you are tarring all the Chinese e-bike importers here with the same brush? Have you got any proof that any battery that I, Kudos, Amp, Cyclotricity, Edge.Bike or Juicy sell (those present on here) gives less than what is labelled?
Although you don't say that we do, but the inference is 'don't buy Chinese batteries', they are sus.

I'm not tarring anyone with any brush.

But I refuse to pretend the range on some Chinese batteries is not disappointing given the number printed on the side.

Gubbins on here posted something similar a few days ago.

Motors, for the sake of convenience, go the other way - stick 250W on it when in reality it's more.

My advice to the OP would be to make sure, insofar as is possible, the cells are a good spec.

The only certain way would be to buy the cells piecemeal and make up a pack/get someone to do it.

On the flip-side could we say that Bosch, Shimano and Yamaha don't give full access to all the amp hours in your battery? given they shut down sooner than perhaps other batteries do to extend their life?

So could the reverse be true in some cases? Chinese batteries have more capacity for their stated capacity when compared with the 3 above ?

I think we could say that, although the 13.4ah pattern battery I had didn't last any longer than the 11ah Bosch one.

It also suffered from sag out of the box, reducing the effective capacity still further.

It also started to lose ability to hold charge quite quickly.

Which is another point about some generic Chinese batteries - they do not seem to last long.

One of my factory Bosch batteries is coming up to six years old and still holds as much charge as it ever did.

If the capacity had reduced I would say so, because unlike some posters on this thread, I couldn't give a stuff about any battery or bike brand, including those I own.

Bosch and Riese and Muller have done well for me, so my posts reflect that.

But if the bike blows up tomorrow I will post about it.

 

[Woosh]

Rob, you don't own a recent Chinese bike and yet, you post every time to rubbish them.
That's simply prejudice.

 

[RobF]

Rob, you don't own a recent Chinese bike and yet, you post every time to rubbish them.
That's simply prejudice.

All your posts are no more than a puff for woosh bikes.

That's fine, but readers should be in no doubt about it - your views are desperately biased.

As I said, I couldn't give a stuff about any brand.

Post it as I see it - the prospective buyer has enough nous to weigh up the various comments and their provenance.

 

[Woosh]

your views are desperately biased.

pot, kettle.
At least, I can substantiate my posts.