Bike for long fastish commute

[Deleted member 4366]

You can tell if your bike is restricted by doing a simple test. With a fully charged battery, lift the motor-wheel off the ground, give it full throttle. Measure the speed with a cycle computer. Go out for a ride until your battery is half flat or lower. Repeat the test. If the wheel goes at the same speed it's restricted. If it goes at least 10% slower in the second test, it isn't restricted.

If it is restricted, look for two single wires coming out of the controller in a loop or connected together. Disconnect them.

 

[newboater]

right thanks for the information I will try the above tommorrow

 

[D8ve]

The power needed to take the sweat out of the ride is quite small on a good road bike. A hundred watts extra would transform most cyclists giving them a higher speed or less effort government estimate is 250 watt for average cyclist. So an keep the same speed for 150 watts of effort or go faster.

recumbents come in different guises. A low racer is low and hard to see, but fast. My mid racer(realy a tourer) is at eye height foe most drivers and it's unusual design makes you stand out.
After six months use I am as fast on it as a Panasonic mid drive kalhoff ?
I sweat on both but get 18 mph as an average.
The difference is the electric never goes less than 10 mph or above 30.
The bent goes slow and over 45 every trip?
A bent with a small hub drive would be a real speed daemon.
Something I am expecting to prove when my court case is done

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Good information folks, thanks. Col, much of my ride is cruising along - whilst there are parts with traffic and junctions much of the ride is just cruising at 17mph or so. There are some inclines too

Also am I right in understanding KTM aren't doing the E cross P next year? It didn't seem to be in the brochure you linked to.

Was thinking about this again last night whilst I was out on my road bike. At the moment you're crusing at 17mph on a road bike, you've said you want a bike thats got a bit more capability offroad, so you're going to be looking at a hybrid with flat bars and slightly wider fater tyres.

As you've not expressed an interest in getting to work fast, there is honestly no need to go down the route of an illegal bike with all the associated risks.

A bike like the eCross P, will mean you'll get the 17mph average you're getting no with no problem, and it'll be a much more offroad capable bike, than a specific road bike which you're currently using to get that average speed.

We don't have any demo bikes, or I honestly would send you one to try. We're between seasons now, so wont have our new demo fleet until just before the NEC show. But there are dealers who I'm sure might lend you one of their demo bikes to try the commute.

But, yes - no eCross P next year.

Partly because we're doing a Bosch and Shimano drive Cross Bike, but mainly because its evolved into the new eStreet P. Which actually seems to be what many people turned their eCross P's into this year.

 

[jackhandy]

. A hundred watts extra would transform most cyclists giving them a higher speed or less effort government estimate is 250 watt for average cyclist. So an keep the same speed for 150 watts of effort or go faster.

I assume you're talking of 100w OUTPUT, which is not what you'd get, in practice, from 100w assist system, which I'd barely notice on the road.

 

[D8ve]

Like all men sensitive to the finer points Jackhandy

 

[mfj197]

Col, I was thinking about it yesterday whilst out on the road bike too. Actually it was a day which would have suited an ebike, with quite a headwind on my return leg. Much of the ride I was bemoaning the lack of motor...

The secondary goal of having a bit more off-road functionality is much lower priority. Mind you, doing the full distance commute I have noted something else - I could do with a more comfortable ride. I'm not as young as I once was and an hour and a half in a racing tuck with my head arched back isn't particularly pleasant. I've actually just been out to reverse the stem on the bike to raise the bars a bit. This is certainly an area where an ebike would be better. However, 2.5 hours in the saddle day in day out would be quite a bit to bear.

The eStreet P looks nice. What price will it be going for?

Thanks for the thoughts on the demonstrator. I've already been in to one of the West London dealers and seen the KTMs and others there, and they were good in suggesting a demo, so we'll see if I can try the full commute.

Michael

 

[EddiePJ]

Michael, to further back up what Col has said, take a look at this ride as an example of how mixed terrain averages out a route, and still gives the kind of performance that you seek. The KTM would do this, without you breaking into too much of a sweat, and would still almost certainly give enough battery performance for a repeat* journey.

I'll have to remove this from Strava again before someone kiks up. Look at the zigzag stats.
http://app.strava.com/activities/169737440

Here is another shorter but similarly varied route.
http://app.strava.com/activities/157536258

,* An assumption based upon using a KTM off road on a 44mile route, and still having a small amount of battery life left.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

The eStreet P looks nice. What price will it be going for?

Michael

it does look good doesn't it! We didn't know it was going to exist until the brochure a couple of days ago. We think it'll go well in the UK market place.

At the moment the €RRP has been confirmed at €2499, we are hoping to be able to offer this at a UK RRP of £2049.99, (which is the same price as this years eCross P 2014, but with mudguards and lights included this year) but I can't confirm that price until we've finished all our sums and forecasts on Friday.

eStreet first build is scheduled for October.

Hope that helps.

 

[mfj197]

Michael, to further back up what Col has said, take a look at this ride as an example of how mixed terrain averages out a route, and still gives the kind of performance that you seek.

Eddie, thanks for this - and thanks too for your reviews and thoughts on the KTM and Haibike elsewhere which have been very helpful.

A big difference I think between your ride and mine is as mentioned before, the amount of climbing. You were doing quite a bit of uphill (with motor assist) and downhill (with gravity assist) whereas my ride is generally rather flatter with me spending large amounts of time just cruising along at maybe 17 mph or so. If I only get the electrical benefit for a very short amount of the ride, and for the majority am having to propel a heavier bike (compared to my roadie) at the same speed with no power assistance then I'm not sure I'd actually gain - indeed it may require more energy.

Here's my ride in. Note that whilst there are hills they are much less than you are having to cope with.
http://runkeeper.com/user/934526380/activity/393972042

I think the only way to know is to try it, preferably over more than one day to see if I survive!

Col, thanks for the info on the eStreet P. Much appreciated.

Michael

 

[flapajack]

That is an impressive commute.

 

[mfj197]

recumbents come in different guises. A low racer is low and hard to see, but fast. My mid racer(realy a tourer) is at eye height foe most drivers and it's unusual design makes you stand out.
After six months use I am as fast on it as a Panasonic mid drive kalhoff ?
I sweat on both but get 18 mph as an average.
The difference is the electric never goes less than 10 mph or above 30.
The bent goes slow and over 45 every trip?
A bent with a small hub drive would be a real speed daemon.
Something I am expecting to prove when my court case is done

D8ve, what recumbent are you riding? It certainly is another solution to my commute and may actually be better than an ebike for my particular circumstances.

LEBC and KudosDave are kindly lending me an ebike to try the commute on in a couple of weeks' time. I'll post a comparison thread between it and my road bike commuter on here.

Michael

 

[D8ve]

I have a challenge wizard. It is a short wheel base, over the seat steamed full suspension touring bike.
On my 12 mile scenic commute my best speed was 28.4kph, on an electric bike it was 27.7kph. If I am asthmatic and week then the bent drops to less than 20 kph the electric holds onto 25 ish.
On the flat the wiz holds 35 kph realitivly easily. The electric can't. Doing 26 to 28 is about it.
Electrifying the wiz could be awesome though. Quick up hill, fast on flat and lightening downhill!
Learning the bent took 20 mins of terror and 4 months to adapt to it.
Ie. training Mussels and adapting to turning point near my bottom not feet in front?

D8ve

 

[derf]

I have a 22 mile each way commute and for much of the last few years I've split the journey by driving half way and cycling the rest on a Specialized Secteur Sport road bike. Recently I've gone the whole way a few times but am completely knackered in the evening. I've been thinking a pedelec could allow me to do the entire journey rather more frequently so have been looking into the possibility of buying something to replace my 5-year old roadie).

Primary requirement: To be able to ride the distance at speed on road. The last time I commuted the whole way I averaged 17.8 mph in and 16 mph on the return (I run out of energy!). I'm aware of the 15 mph cutoff and do want to keep legal, but I don't want to be going any slower than I already do without assistance. I know it's a bit of a grey area - for example I believe the BH Neo series are still providing assistance up round 18 mph?

Secondary requirement: My wife has an old Clockwork Orange hybrid bike whereas I only have my roadie. I therefore can't go on trails. Added to that we now have two children (3 and 1) and it would be good to head out on trails for family cycles - with necessary child seats or whatever. I don't think this is a difficult requirement as pretty much all e-bikes are better off-road than mine (with the exception maybe of the BH Neo Race or Carbon).

Any thoughts? I'm considering the BH Neo Cross, KTM E Cross P etc.

Michael

Since you want to keep it legal, here's a hypothetical case,

I - hypothetically - could do a hilly (one very steep followed by some moderately steep) mixed town/open road commute in Buckinghamshire of 11.5 miles - it takes 38 minutes without a sweat on a hot day (I'm 45, weigh 90kg's and am not fit) - so average around 20mph on a woosh Santana. the 15 AH battery is good for there and back (23 miles) and few more short commutes (about another 7 or 8 miles) so around 30 miles in total.

the (cheap) shocks on a Santana really come into tehi rown at this speed - on my road bikes I have to dodge pot holes all the time, mostly with fat tyres and shocks I can plough through, a lot safer than swerving into traffic.

if I had £3k lying around I'd get a kalkhoff endeavour, but then I think I'd get a lot more stressed by leaving it locked in all the dodgy places I work (than a Santana). the Santana wouldn't do any serious off-roading, but would take child seats and on a gentle trail the shocks and tyres are OK.

 

[derf]

The power needed to take the sweat out of the ride is quite small on a good road bike. A hundred watts extra would transform most cyclists giving them a higher speed or less effort government estimate is 250 watt for average cyclist. So an keep the same speed for 150 watts of effort or go faster.

recumbents come in different guises. A low racer is low and hard to see, but fast. My mid racer(realy a tourer) is at eye height foe most drivers and it's unusual design makes you stand out.
After six months use I am as fast on it as a Panasonic mid drive kalhoff ?
I sweat on both but get 18 mph as an average.
The difference is the electric never goes less than 10 mph or above 30.
The bent goes slow and over 45 every trip?
A bent with a small hub drive would be a real speed daemon.
Something I am expecting to prove when my court case is done

ive got a hase tagun (20 recumbent) and found it cruises faster too (less wind resistance), but it doesn't feel as stable, the COG is somewhere between ones hips as opposed to shoulders and I end up feeling like a very short pendulum

 

[steveindenmark]

I have been using a Tonaro Enduro for the past 3 years for my 36km round trip to work and it gets me there and back without rechargin, if I want it to. However, I did buy an extra charger to keep at work and I often top it up at work.

Its on the original battery and still charges up and rides well.

I got it from Powerpedals, who supply excellent service.

Steve

 

[Robinchu]

Thanks for a lot of good information here. Some thoughts:

• Battery / Range. Probably won't be a problem - if necessary I can charge at home and at work, although I would hope not to have to by putting in a reasonable amount of legwork. Chargers cost a wee bit I think?
• I commute in to south west London from Surrey, along some of the route used for the Olympics 2012 road race or this weekend's Ride London event. It's not particularly hilly (I don't do the Box Hill bit!) and RobF is quite right in that I do spend some time above 18mph. That might knock the idea on the head then, unless some of the legal bikes are still providing assistance up around this sort of speed. I averaged 16.5mph on the 22 mile cycle in this morning (but definitely knew about it afterwards - my bike isn't the most comfortable!).
• The BS10 would certainly fit the bill but it is derestricted. I have in the past considered a recumbent but depending on my route I can encounter traffic, and filtering past stationary cars on a recumbent would be pretty difficult.

How does the cutoff work on most bikes? Does the motor suddenly stop providing any assistance as you breach the cutoff speed (for example the rider might have to only put in 100 watts at 15mph but suddenly 350 watts at 16mph) or does it continue providing the same amount of assistance as when the cutoff is breached (but no more)? EddiePJ's review of the KTM E-Cross P suggests the power assist is all over by an indicated 15.5mph whereas the BH Neo carries on up to a higher speed?

Hi reading your past post with great interest. I currently do 34 mile commute round trip from Byfleet to Chiswick and need to get some assistance as I get too tired to do anything after riding.

What did you go for/ are you riding now?

 

[mfj197]

Hi reading your past post with great interest. I currently do 34 mile commute round trip from Byfleet to Chiswick and need to get some assistance as I get too tired to do anything after riding.

What did you go for/ are you riding now?

I ended up doing a conversion of a flat bar road bike. The thread is http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/bbs01-cube-sl-road-pro-conversion-and-long-distance-commuting.20706/. It's done over 5,000 miles in its first year but won't be doing more just at the mo as we've just closed the office down!

Michael