Bike for long fastish commute

mfj197

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jul 18, 2014
553
160
Guildford
Then any bike with a big motor, 15AH battery or better will do the job provided that you can derestrict it.
Except that is not the sort of solution I'm looking for. I can already ride the route unaided at the speed I wish to maintain. I want a solution to provide me with some assistance in this, but not to shoulder the entire burden of the ride. A big heavy motor and battery would require significantly more energy to move and at the cruising speed I maintain I might have to provide most of that energy anyway, unless there is leeway in the cutoff speed. Even a cross-style bike will require quite a bit more energy to cruise, with the additional weight, more upright riding stance and wider tyres than my roadie.

I'm beginning to think there may be no legal way to solve this one!

Michael
 

trex

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 15, 2011
7,703
2,671
Michael, the weight of the battery and motor (7-8 kgs) is not much compared to the total weight (bike + rider, about 100kgs).
If you are the sort of blokes who ride 4,000 miles a year, a big motor is a must, it's not only flexible with the power demand, it's also longer lasting. Small SWX motors are good for up to about 5,000 miles, much less if the terrain is demanding. A 15AH battery weighs only 3.4kgs, much better than having to recharge at work.
 
honestly, it sounds like your needs were pretty similar to mine.

You don't need an illegal bike, trust me. Your average speed is 16.5mph on your normal bike. If you use a legal eBike like the eCross P, you'll find this average increases by taking out all the slow bits - if you feel you need to increase your top end you can do this easily. I can still bomb along at 20+ mph if I want and get a good work out. Because you've got the support below 15mph, you'll have loads more energy to go above should you want to.

How tall are you? I'd suggest its really worth trying a bike on your commute so you can see that the support up to the legal limit is amazing. Risking lots by having support over the legal limit is something I'd not be doing if I was commuting on a busy route every day using the same busy roads full of other cyclists.
 
A 15AH battery weighs only 3.4kgs, much better than having to recharge at work.
How does this make sense?

Charging at work is essentially free because work are paying for the power, so yes you have the cost of a spare charger, but a lighter bike is more fun, faster, more agile and generally better.

How can lugging a bigger batter around be better than charging at work?

I'm confused?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kudoscycles

mfj197

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jul 18, 2014
553
160
Guildford
Col, I certainly hear you and it's good to hear from someone who has undertaken a similar sort of commute. I certainly agree that the electric assist would help with all the slower bits, and would make the climbs much easier. However I don't have much climbing really - I guess this is where our commutes differ. If I'm reading you right your commute was pretty hilly and you had assistance uphill (electric, unhindered by reaching the 15mph cutoff) and downhill (gravity). Most of my ride is along the flat where I imagine I would need quite a bit more power from me to maintain the cruise speed on a cross-style bike than on my roadie.

What bike did you use for the commute?
 

Artstu

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 2, 2009
2,420
925
I'm beginning to think there may be no legal way to solve this one!
That's my belief too. If you had a more up down route then it could be possible as Col found with his commute. However it just won't work on your flatter commute IMO.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mfj197

trex

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 15, 2011
7,703
2,671
How does this make sense?

Charging at work is essentially free because work are paying for the power, so yes you have the cost of a spare charger, but a lighter bike is more fun, faster, more agile and generally better.

How can lugging a bigger batter around be better than charging at work?

I'm confused?
A 15AH (or 17AH) battery is only about 1kg heavier than the 11.5AH (400WH) and has enough power to do the whole commute whatever the weather.
I am not suggesting lugging a second battery.
 
Col, I certainly hear you and it's good to hear from someone who has undertaken a similar sort of commute. I certainly agree that the electric assist would help with all the slower bits, and would make the climbs much easier. However I don't have much climbing really - I guess this is where our commutes differ. If I'm reading you right your commute was pretty hilly and you had assistance uphill (electric, unhindered by reaching the 15mph cutoff) and downhill (gravity). Most of my ride is along the flat where I imagine I would need quite a bit more power from me to maintain the cruise speed on a cross-style bike than on my roadie.

What bike did you use for the commute?
My commute has one hill, but 12 miles of it is actually down hill, here is the profile of my route home on an eBIke.

I did it on a 29er mountain bike, so on something with cross or road tyres would actually roll even better.

http://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/426090752

you've got to think about what the purpose of your purchase is.

If its so you can get to work and shave the maximum amount of time off your commute, then go illegal and take your chances, but personally if I was doing this, I'd just buy a moped, and ride a normal bike when I wanted.

If your looking to allow yourself to save a bit of time, get to work with more energy left, but also get some exercise, then there is really no need to take the risk of riding an illegal vehicle on the roads.

If you're fit and want to have fun on a bike. The 15.5ish cut off is plenty... honestly, its great fun, hence why its the legal limit. It doesn't need to be any more, and I'm not sure why anyone would risk it really.
 
Last edited:

Artstu

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 2, 2009
2,420
925
If you're fit and want to have fun on a bike. The 15.5ish cut off is plenty... honestly, its great fun, hence why its the legal limit. It doesn't need to be any more, and I'm not sure why anyone would risk it really.
That would make for an interesting poll, and I'd be amazed if even just 10% of experienced cyclists like Michael with a similar commute, polled would see the point of an e-bike.

You won't need much power Michael, 1/2 power on a weedy hub geared Bosch will work perfectly, what you do need though is help way above 16 mph.
 
That would make for an interesting poll, and I'd be amazed if even just 10% of experienced cyclists like Michael with a similar commute, polled would see the point of an e-bike.
true, and thats why its our job to push these "cyclists" to see the benefits. I did, and I don't think you'll find many cyclists who are as experienced or serious as me. Not seeing the point, is not the same as not seeing the point once they've tried it for a week.

You won't need much power Michael, 1/2 power on a weedy hub geared Bosch will work perfectly, what you do need though is help way above 16 mph.
Stu, thats true for you of course, but you have issues putting power down, which is one of the reasons why you ride an eBike isn't it? This poster is looking for a eBike to mean he can use his bike to get to work every day, so his needs are different. Especially as he'll be riding on busy roads in traffic on the same route every day. Thats not the same as having a bike as a leisure pursuit. Getting above the 15.5mph limit and using your own energy if you're a fit cyclist is totally easy, but in busy roads, lots of junctions etc etc, its the 0-15mph thats crucial... actual top end speed isn't as relevant.

I've tried an illegal bike, and to be honest it was terrifying. If I put down the power I like to put down when riding a bike, I was bombing along at 30+ MPH the whole time... which means I'd stand out like a sore thumb on the roads and I'm sure at some point very quickly cause an accident. Yes I can ride my normal bike at 30mph on the flat normally, but when I do I'm dressed like a serious cyclist and I look like a serious cyclist and I'm on a bike built with brakes etc etc that can cope with it. So other road users are able to anticipate me being at that speed. If I was just commuting and dress according, I'd not expect others to expect me to approach a junction at 30+ MPH.

Col
 
Last edited:

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,161
30,578
I agree with Arstu, there's not a truly legal way of meeting this need acceptably. Whether to match the existing times with much less effort or reducing the times with a smaller reduction in effort, assistance will be needed well beyond the usually quoted legal 15 mph.

However, there is some leeway. In recognition that the equivalent of the EU 25 kph limit is 15.6 mph the DfT have sometimes stated 16 mph and have also said the usual 10% tolerance applies. Therefore 17.2 mph assistance is acceptable in practice. (15.6 + 10%).

To be useful you'll need the full power at 17 mph, but to stay strictly legal means a sharp cutoff of power immediately above, which is unpleasant in practice.
.
 

Artstu

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 2, 2009
2,420
925
true, and thats why its our job to push these "cyclists" to see the benefits. I did, and I don't think you'll find many cyclists who are as experienced or serious as me. Not seeing the point, is not the same as not seeing the point once they've tried it for a week.
You'll have to arrange for Michael to borrow a bike for a week, then we'll see who is right.


Stu, thats true for you of course, but you have issues putting power down, which is one of the reasons why you ride an eBike isn't it? This poster is looking for a eBike to mean he can use his bike to get to work every day, so his needs are different. Especially as he'll be riding on busy roads in traffic on the same route every day. Thats not the same as having a bike as a leisure pursuit. Getting above the 15.5mph limit and using your own energy if you're a fit cyclist is totally easy, but in busy roads, lots of junctions etc etc, its the 0-15mph thats crucial... actual top end speed isn't as relevant.
That's correct, due to illness I don't produce anywhere near the power I should be expected to produce. So for Michael isn't that what he's looking for? to ride to work everyday at a similar speed to his unassisted times, but with a reduced input from himself. In effect exactly what I require.
Granted he will be better able than me to ride above the assist speed, but he'll be going slower than on his other bike with the same input from him.
I've tried an illegal bike, and to be honest it was terrifying. If I put down the power I like to put down when riding a bike, I was bombing along at 30+ MPH the whole time... which means I'd stand out like a sore thumb on the roads and I'm sure at some point very quickly cause an accident. Yes I can ride my normal bike at 30mph on the flat normally, but when I do I'm dressed like a serious cyclist and I look like a serious cyclist and I'm on a bike built with brakes etc etc that can cope with it. So other road users are able to anticipate me being at that speed. If I was just commuting and dress according, I'd not expect others to expect me to approach a junction at 30+ MPH.
Fair point, and it's up to a fit cyclist to ride wisely if he exploits the full potential of a de-restricted bike.
 

mfj197

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jul 18, 2014
553
160
Guildford
Good information folks, thanks. Col, much of my ride is cruising along - whilst there are parts with traffic and junctions much of the ride is just cruising at 17mph or so. There are some inclines too

Also am I right in understanding KTM aren't doing the E cross P next year? It didn't seem to be in the brochure you linked to.
 
D

Deleted member 4366

Guest
I'm beginning to think there may be no legal way to solve this one!

Michael
If the legal limit is 15.5 mph, which you don't want to break , and your average speed on a flat road is 17.5 mph. It seems pretty obvious to me that a legal bike is going to be no help whatsoever.
 

Kudoscycles

Official Trade Member
Apr 15, 2011
5,566
5,048
www.kudoscycles.com
I have a 22 mile each way commute and for much of the last few years I've split the journey by driving half way and cycling the rest on a Specialized Secteur Sport road bike. Recently I've gone the whole way a few times but am completely knackered in the evening. I've been thinking a pedelec could allow me to do the entire journey rather more frequently so have been looking into the possibility of buying something to replace my 5-year old roadie).

Primary requirement: To be able to ride the distance at speed on road. The last time I commuted the whole way I averaged 17.8 mph in and 16 mph on the return (I run out of energy!). I'm aware of the 15 mph cutoff and do want to keep legal, but I don't want to be going any slower than I already do without assistance. I know it's a bit of a grey area - for example I believe the BH Neo series are still providing assistance up round 18 mph?

Secondary requirement: My wife has an old Clockwork Orange hybrid bike whereas I only have my roadie. I therefore can't go on trails. Added to that we now have two children (3 and 1) and it would be good to head out on trails for family cycles - with necessary child seats or whatever. I don't think this is a difficult requirement as pretty much all e-bikes are better off-road than mine (with the exception maybe of the BH Neo Race or Carbon).

Any thoughts? I'm considering the BH Neo Cross, KTM E Cross P etc.

Michael
Michael,please read your PM.
Reading through your OP this is not just about speed,its also not getting home tired. You mention that you are not far from the London Electric Bike Company and have visited them,why dont you go and try a Kudos 29er and derestrict that comfortably within fleccs tolerance,ie about 17 mph and go for a long bike ride over similar terrain to your journey,it will soon reveal whether sticking at 17 mph assisted will keep your same journey time but arrive home less tired.
The resultant conclusion will I am sure be interesting to many on this forum.
Without wanting to start a forum war I agree with Colin and Tom at LEBC that cycling along at plus 20 mph in London,assisted or otherwise,is a very scary experience and inevitably doing it on a daily commute you will have an accident,there are literally dozens of crashes in London now,usually between bikes and pedestrians,its not always the cyclists fault and not always the pedestrians fault but all bikes are getting quicker now and people are just not ready for the speed.
Also around my London base (Canary Wharf) are Boris's so called super highways,some of the one way streets have cycle lanes running the 'wrong way' down the street,as a pedestrian you have got used to cars coming from only one direction,you dont expect a 20 mph plus bike silently from the other direction.
KudosDave
 
Last edited:
D

Deleted member 4366

Guest
Wispers can be de-restricted. Show us the LCD?LED control panel.
 

trex

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 15, 2011
7,703
2,671
that one does not go any faster than it does already (it's not restricted).