BEBA "come and try" Day in Regent's Park London

[Wisper Bikes]

Response from The London Green Fair Directors.

The London Green Fair exists as a community interest company as it genuinely has the interests of the green community at heart. it is managed by a board of trustees, and the directors will be taking no wages for their work either last year or this year. It costs an enormous amount of money to hire the Regents Park, and the exhibition hire fees only just manage to cover the cost. As its a free event, there is no guaranteed income from ticket sales, but the organisers feel that to maintain the access and inclusion element of the event they are so proud of, charging would only serve to exclude people. There are many events that use 'greenwash' to increase their sales and profits, but the London Green Fair has existed for 20 years on the fact that it is not one of them.

 

[flecc]

Response from The London Green Fair Directors.

The London Green Fair exists as a community interest company as it genuinely has the interests of the green community at heart. it is managed by a board of trustees, and the directors will be taking no wages for their work either last year or this year. It costs an enormous amount of money to hire the Regents Park, and the exhibition hire fees only just manage to cover the cost. As its a free event, there is no guaranteed income from ticket sales, but the organisers feel that to maintain the access and inclusion element of the event they are so proud of, charging would only serve to exclude people. There are many events that use 'greenwash' to increase their sales and profits, but the London Green Fair has existed for 20 years on the fact that it is not one of them.

Well said, and I'm sure all those who attend and and are entertained at no cost whatsoever are grateful for such a public spirited initiative.

 

[eddieo]

lets face it this is the show we have all been waiting for, so congratulations for the time and effort of all involved.........Other exhibitors please get on board to make it a success!

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Thanks Eddie on behalf of the team and thanks for your support Flecc.

All the best

David

 

[Wisper Bikes]

I made an error in my earlier post which will benefit anyone that would like to attend but is not VAT registered. There is no VAT charged on the space fees.

Best regards

David

 

[Kudoscycles]

David and all....if you remember myself and Spencer Ivy exhibited at the Bridgestone Eco Rally based in the Mall between Admiralty Arch and Buckingham Palace....we offered a thousand plus test rides to so many interested persons,it was a wonderful weather day but so many of the riders were from far flung parts of the world,we did a good job of selling the e-bike concept in the USA and Australia!!!!
My cynical attitude to these events is one of the organisers had a long chat with me bemoaning that they hadn't managed to squeeze enough money out of the commercial side to pay for the sponsors,he was certain the event would lose money. Maybe I am being unfair and that this event is different but google 'green fair' and you can find many such events around the country-what concerns me is that these events are not transparent in their structure and accounts-this CIC company has not yet published any accounts.
My feelings about the marketing of e-bikes are now very specific.
1. The events need to be on a national basis to reach the maximum number of people but also on a local level to satisfy any follow on. In other words the events need to be such that locals would attend-shopping centres and county shows but must involve also involve local dealers,the London event will attract worldwide but I hope it also attracts the population of London.
2. Most of the people who buy these bikes are 45 years plus,that is not about to change and therefore we need to consider shows such as the retirement show. My experience of the ECO fair was that the age group was considerably younger than that and many treated the test as a fairground ride,with some dangerous and extreme riding.
3. I feel that the quality of the interested customer is more important than the quantity-this can only be achieved by searching through our customer databases to personally invite those who have already shown as interest in e-bikes but the venue must satisfy a true test of the bike. There are many on this forum who are looking to buy for the first time or change their existing bike,these customers know what they want and are looking for a venue to fully try and compare various e-bikes with a hill included-we are not currently offering them that opportunity-even the NEC cycle show was still not ideal,too many people,no hill and too expensive. So I am going to find across this country venues that offer a true riding experience of these bikes-the London 'try an e-bike day' at Redbridge Cycling Centre,Sunday 27 May is our first event on the challenging Hog Hill circuit,I hope other e-bike sellers and dealers see my vision and exhibit with test bikes,I have also invited many local dealers. I suspect that the footfall will be counted in hundreds but these will be customers with a dedicated interest in electric bikes.
Because such a venue is so difficult to find in the UK I will expect Pedelec forum readers to take advantage of what is a unique opportunity and travel some distance to attend-it will certainly raise the age old argument about how hub drive v crank drive performs up Hog Hill.
There is no cost to customers,no cost to dealers and only £20 to suppliers so all should be able to afford.
My only restriction is all bikes must be UK legal,no 350 watt plus motors!
I am supportive of Alistair at Atmosphere Bikes at Bristol because he has made considerable efforts to attract the local populace and his own customer base.
Don't get me wrong if I were not already commited to the Bristol show I would have exhibited at the London Show,despite my reservations for I agree that any exposure of e-bikes to the public is good for all in the industry.
With regard to BEBA I continue to be negative,there is so much in their code of practice that I just don't agree with. In particular a lot of dealers use BEBA as a sign of quality but in fact BEBA has no quality standard-how about all bikes sold by BEBA members meet EN 15194 standard introduced as part of their code pf practice.
I am sure that the London event will be a social success and enjoyed by many,especially if the weather is kind and wish all an enjoyable day.
Dave
KudosCycles

 

[eddieo]

Then why not be negative elsewhere and not besmirch a perfectly good effort with tat for tat arguments. And before anyone says its London-centric, obviously we need shows around the country. I do think a stand alone show probably a better idea.....maybe next time

It should be easy enough to deter idiotic joy riders, simply make test rides pre bookable, by appointment only, with photo ID

 

[Kudoscycles]

Eddie,I think you meant 'why be negative elsewhere',but I think we know what you meant to say....I don't think I did knock the London show...not happy that non BEBA members should pay more...not happy that 3mtr x 3 mtr bit of dirt should cost £750.00....not happy that the finances of all these such shows are not transparent....however I think it a shame the unfortunate timing,the Regents Park show would have been a good feeder to the London test a bike show,but the London show is afterwards-my experience with customers who come for a test ride is that they need longer than a short ride to fully evaluate a bike,they ride round in front of our warehouse but have a completely different opinion on a longer ride with a hill.
I would welcome others suggestions as to suitable venues elsewhere in the country,including Scotland but the low volume of e-bike sales are such that you cannot expect a venue on your doorstep,I think if you are seriously interested in an e-bike purchase up to 100 mile journey is not unreasonable,do you agree?-one of my employees who is a sports racing cyclist went to Bristol to buy a special helmet.
Dave
KudosCycles

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Dave, have you actually read my posts? A 3mx3m piece of dirt?!

I really don't think I can add any more to this thread, everyone (including Dave from Kudos) can see the sense and value of the London event. I really can't believe Dave doesn't understand that what BEBA is doing generally is fantastic for the industry.

This is not a competition, and we certainly should not be bickering between ourselves, Dave why don't you apply to join BEBA and work to change things from the inside, I am not saying we are perfect and agree whole heartedly regarding EN15194. BEBA is already organising events all over the country, why duplicate efforts? You have some great ideas so rather than being negative, why not join in and help with the work we are already doing to promote the industry? You would be most welcome.

All the best

David

 

[Kudoscycles]

David...respect that you may not agree with my direction but we have a common purpose that is to expand the e-bike industry in the UK,for the good of all within it,including the customers. You will have by now received an invite to my London 'try an e-bike day' at Redbridge Cycling Centre,afternoon May 27th-I cannot believe that this wonderful facility escaped all our notice,if we were to design a track to test out e-bikes then the 2.0 km Hog Hill circuit would do the job well and the LDA have spent £4.5million providing it-I am asking only £20 contribution to the reasonable cost of £165.00 to hire for the afternoon,its only £280 for the whole day which seems incredibly cheap. However I realise that this will be a waste of my efforts if nobody comes along, hence why I put no obstacle in the way of my competitors to also attend-we all need to search our databases,customer enquiries,invite local dealers,corporate invites etc etc. I want customers to have the opportunity to try the maximum number and type/brand of e-bikes in an ideal situation and so far this is the only facility like this I have found anywhere in the UK-if there are similar perhaps others could advise.
I am currently looking at a roadshow for KudosCycles based around the major shopping centres,it is mind blowing expensive but we need to reach customers other than the already converted e-bike enthusiasts and in all honesty I cannot think of another way.
You are quite correct that all of the foregoing would be easier and more of a group effort if I was a member of BEBA,that would be very attractive to me,but I just cannot join an organisation who's code of conduct is designed to suit the self interest of the founder members-how can you try to exclude direct on-line selling which whilst BEBA may not approve, is attractive to so many members of this forum-how can you exclude members who copy others products,you may not approve but that is not your job to police such actions-but what you can do is have a quality standard such as EN 15194 that every BEBA must build bikes to that standard-but that would exclude many of the existing members.
Scrap these ridiculous codes of conduct let the likes of Cyclamatic,Tesco,Whoosh into BEBA if they wish to join....create a level playing field for BEBA events,charging £150.00 extra for the Regents park show only serves to endorse that you are still treating non BEBA members as outsiders and start acting like a true and impartial body representing the aspirations of the whole of the e-bike industry.
Relook at your codes of conduct,especially those which evolved out of personal conflicts between Wisper and other suppliers and I will reconsider BEBA membership.
Dave
KudosCycles

 

[geostorm]

David sounds interesting i would like go, do you know what the parking facilities are, or would you advise rail from Kent coast .? thanks

 

[Blew it]

Crossed threads?

I think Geostorm is referring to the BEBA event in Regents Park.

For the record, Redbridge Cycling Center has 158 car parking spaces

 

[Kudoscycles]

Blew it....you are correct.....too many Davids on this forum....I have deleted my post to avoid confusion....rail must be the best way to getting to Regents Park
Dave
KudosCycles

 

[eddieo]

Blew it....you are correct.....too many Davids on this forum....I have deleted my post to avoid confusion....rail must be the best way to getting to Regents Park
Dave
KudosCycles

A shame you did not delete all of them...Most of us have absolutely NO interest in commercial rangling

 

[bode]

Most of us have absolutely NO interest in commercial rangling

Ooh, I don't know about that...

 

[JuicyBike]

A shame you did not delete all of them...Most of us have absolutely NO interest in commercial rangling

Yes, the commercial rangling is a pain. What some don't appreciate is the massive size of commercial cake out there, with plenty of little slices, ideal for sharing... The pains are those that attempt to eat it all!

 

[Kudoscycles]

Eddie>If you look through postings on this forum those which involve the Cyclamatic bike are the most popular,suggesting this is a popular subject-the latest thread has 126 replies and 12,865 views and yet under BEBA rules Cyclamatic(Sports HQ) are excluded from joining BEBA,that is ridiculous.
JuicyBike>sorry don't agree that the cake is massive,it is in Holland,Germany and Belgium but in the UK it is tiny in comparison...I don't mind having a little slice of a big cake but at the moment to achieve reasonable volumes it is necessary to have a big slice of a little cake and inevitably some will go hungry!
Dave
KudosCycles

 

[bode]

JuicyBike>sorry don't agree that the cake is massive,it is in Holland,Germany and Belgium but in the UK it is tiny in comparison...

Ever heard of irony?

 

[Hero Eco]

Eddie>If you look through postings on this forum those which involve the Cyclamatic bike are the most popular,suggesting this is a popular subject-the latest thread has 126 replies and 12,865 views and yet under BEBA rules Cyclamatic(Sports HQ) are excluded from joining BEBA,that is ridiculous.
JuicyBike>sorry don't agree that the cake is massive,it is in Holland,Germany and Belgium but in the UK it is tiny in comparison...I don't mind having a little slice of a big cake but at the moment to achieve reasonable volumes it is necessary to have a big slice of a little cake and inevitably some will go hungry!
Dave
KudosCycles

Dave,

I have clarified this before, but will do it again. Sports HQ are not excluded from joining BEBA. They have a flagship store that a consumer can walk into for repairs or to purchase. This is acceptable under the BEBA code of conduct. I don't see any of the other points restricting them joining.

I hope thats clear.

Thanks
Mark

 

[Wisper Bikes]

I am not sure what is being described here as commercial wrangling? If I am the guilty party, please accept my apologies.

We at BEBA simply believe that the electric bike market is best served by local dealers and distributors. The market is not yet at a stage where one can easily get an electric bike serviced or repaired locally. We hear time and time again from people who buy bikes from dealers at the other end of the country who cannot quickly and efficiently get problems sorted out. Most of us would not buy a car, motorbike or indeed a bicycle if we had to send the vehicle hundreds of miles away to get a problem resolved. However if a customer chooses to buy this way, as long as they can be certain of a good long distance support there shouldn't be a problem.

The suppliers we believe are responsible for holding the market back in the UK are those that simply bring containers of bikes into the country and sell them off, nearly always without back up or expertise. These guys never have a shop or workshops where issues can be resolved, we would not be interested in this type of operation becoming BEBA members.

If of course it can be shown that a supplier is successfully looking after it's customers well at a distance we would be pleased to discuss BEBA with them.

I understand the comment re the Cyclamatic product, and it is great there is a lot of interest but surely a lot of interest in something does not mean customers will be well looked after?

BEBA has been formed to help the public and retailers gain confidence in the electric bike industry, nothing more. I can assure everyone that any decent electric bike supplier who looks after their customers to the high standard that existing members already do would be welcome.

Best regards

David