Battery Fires

[lenny]

"In an announcement via the China Daily news agency, the Ministry of Commerce said absorbed glass mat (AGM) lead-acid batteries are now being preferred by manufacturers for domestic e-bikes. This includes manufacturers like Yadea and NIU. Both companies still export lithium-ion e-bikes for now.

E-bike users are being encouraged to turn in their lithium-ion e-bikes as part of a trade-in programme, according to the ministry. E-bikes handed in will be dismantled and batteries recycled. Subsidies will be provided for users to purchase ones with sealed lead-acid batteries, it said. "

China shifts from lithium-ion to lead-acid batteries for e-bikes - Best Magazine

In an announcement via the China Daily news agency, the Ministry of Commerce said absorbed glass mat (AGM) lead-acid batteries are now being preferred by

www.bestmag.co.uk

https://www.yuasabatteries.com/resources/guides/agm-battery/

 

[Woosh]

E-bike users are being encouraged to turn in their lithium-ion e-bikes as part of a trade-in programme, according to the ministry. E-bikes handed in will be dismantled and batteries recycled. Subsidies will be provided for users to purchase ones with sealed lead-acid batteries, it said. "

weight isn't a problem for twist and go e-bikes but for EAPC, we need LmFP (Lithium Managnese Iron Phosphate).
Tesla is going to use LmFP in their cars by the end of this year.

 

[saneagle]

Another disaster:

 

[Ghost1951]

I think we need to turn around the message.

More and more the forum is gravitating towards why ebikes are a menace, rather than what we ought to be saying which is that they are a great thing which brings older people back to being free and self powering without riding in a metal box.

Yeah - I can still pedal a bike which doesn't have electrical assistance, but I like having a bit of help in this hilly area where I live, so that I am flying along like I was twenty once again.

Having that technology is a brilliant thing and we need to celebrate it more and stop all the negative stuff.

This forum is an advocacy group for that, not one which says why they should be banned and restricted and feared.

Show me the transportation system which does not have disasters. Treat them right and none of this cr ap will happen. We know that, and we know how great they are.

My £252 Argos e-bike yesterday at 504 miles covered. What a bargain. I love it!

I have had such joy riding it.

 

[MikelBikel]

Trouble for us with our bike batteries, is when insurance companies decide to not only jack up rates, but Cancel fire insurance, like in California. :-/

 

[MikelBikel]

Just what we Don't need, another fire, and worst place, on a plane. Lucky it was on the ground. Powerbanks will get banned I reckon? :-/

 

[MikelBikel]

Anybody notice their car insurance up ??% for No reason? Sh..ugar! :-/

 

[AndyBike]

Just what we Don't need, another fire, and worst place, on a plane. Lucky it was on the ground. Powerbanks will get banned I reckon? :-/

I'll wager that whatever it was fitted to was something bought because it was "The cheapest available"

But as ever, these cheap products are giving all battery products a bad name, when it is the opposite that is true.

Quality is priced accordingly, and as all these instances have proven, buying cheap is a bad economic model.

 

[saneagle]

I'll wager that whatever it was fitted to was something bought because it was "The cheapest available"

That's ridiculous. This clearly shows your biased thinking. He said that was a portable battery that got squished in the overhead locker. What's that got to do with price? In fact all the expensive ones look a lot less sturdy to me, as they use pouch cells rather than 18650s that have their own metal case as well as the plastic case around them.

 

[Ghost1951]

Salvaged another perfect small lithium battery this morning from a discarded vape, lying in the street. Perfect condition. Measured voltage as found was 3.4v - barely used. It is the useful 500 mAhr type.

These cells are rated for hundreds of charge -re-charge cycles. Another torch cell maybe, or a replacement for one of the many applications which use 3 series connected AA, or AAA batteries.

The tiny TP4056 charge controllers at eighty pence each make them safe on charge and discharge and they become USB chargeable.

This is one less battery that might have caused a fire in the waste stream when accidentally crushed or short circuited alongside flammable material.

 

[Ghost1951]

Matured technology TVs, PCs and laptops don't set fire to your homes, chargers and air fryers aren't as safe.
See 122 battery chargers, 103% increase, 305 fryers, 30% increase.

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/air-fryer-safely-fire-insurance-claims-164935625.html

 

[soundwave]

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/air-fryer-safely-fire-insurance-claims-164935625.html

Pardon our interruption...

 

[Hen]

View attachment 62054

Salvaged another perfect small lithium battery this morning from a discarded vape, lying in the street. Perfect condition. Measured voltage as found was 3.4v - barely used. It is the useful 500 mAhr type.

These cells are rated for hundreds of charge -re-charge cycles. Another torch cell maybe, or a replacement for one of the many applications which use 3 series connected AA, or AAA batteries.

The tiny TP4056 charge controllers at eighty pence each make them safe on charge and discharge and they become USB chargeable.

This is one less battery that might have caused a fire in the waste stream when accidentally crushed or short circuited alongside flammable material.

If more people were conscious about discarded batteries

 

[Ghost1951]

If more people were conscious about discarded batteries

If more people were conscious about discarded batteries

Fitted with a TP4056 BMS / charge _ discharge controller. I bought 5 of them on ali express and they cost about 80 pence each. This one is ready for a project, when i think of one.

 

[guerney]

Make a battery pack for your cycling dashcam? I'm considering whether it'd be worth using two lithium pouches I've dragged out of a Sony VAIP P battery to power my GoPro Hero 7 Black, or a bluetooth amp (The Vamp) - that laptop battery has never been used, incorrect version bought by mistake for a fiver (refunded) on ebay several years ago. They were a right bugger to extricate from the battery housing, and I suspect I may have damaged the things. I also suspect the very strong glue holding them to the battery housing was integral to the design, as there wasn't much else holding the housing parts together. I was going to try disconnecting the pouches from the Sony BMS, to replace identical cells in a dead but compatible VAIO P battery, but I don't have the expensive BMS chip resetting gizmo; not worth it. Might try charging one of the pouches... or simply attempt to recycle. Fortunately, I have a much higher capacity battery for that UMPC laptop.

 

[Ghost1951]

Make a battery pack for your cycling dashcam? I'm considering whether it'd be worth using two lithium pouches I've dragged out of a Sony VAIP P battery to power my GoPro Hero 7 Black, or a bluetooth amp (The Vamp) - that laptop battery has never been used, incorrect version bought by mistake for a fiver on ebay several years ago. They were a right bugger to extricate from the battery housing, and I suspect I may have damaged the things. I also suspect the very strong glue holding them to the battery housing was integral to the design, as there wasn't much else holding the housing parts together. I was going to try disconnecting the pouches from the Sony BMS, to replace identical cells in a dead but compatible VAIO P battery, but I don't have the expensive BMS chip resetting gizmo; not worth it. Might try charging one of the pouches... or simply attempt to recycle.


View attachment 62096

I don't think that tiny battery would run the dash cam for long - though I don't know what its power requirements are. When I was messing around with that dash cam on the motorbike in the home made chest harness, I powered the dash cam with a Lidle power pack which had about 10 AHr capacity. I reckon it would have run the camera all day long and some. It would take 20 of these wee vape batteries to equal that. Something will dawn on me one day and the cell will get used. I have the same sort of cell in my go-to pocket torch which I keep on me. There are no street lights here so as soon as I go outside on a winter's night it is pitch black.

 

[Ghost1951]

Make a battery pack for your cycling dashcam? I'm considering whether it'd be worth using two lithium pouches I've dragged out of a Sony VAIP P battery to power my GoPro Hero 7 Black, or a bluetooth amp (The Vamp) - that laptop battery has never been used, incorrect version bought by mistake for a fiver (refunded) on ebay several years ago. They were a right bugger to extricate from the battery housing, and I suspect I may have damaged the things. I also suspect the very strong glue holding them to the battery housing was integral to the design, as there wasn't much else holding the housing parts together. I was going to try disconnecting the pouches from the Sony BMS, to replace identical cells in a dead but compatible VAIO P battery, but I don't have the expensive BMS chip resetting gizmo; not worth it. Might try charging one of the pouches... or simply attempt to recycle. Fortunately, I have a much higher capacity battery for that UMPC laptop.


View attachment 62096

You can almost certainly use a TP4065 board to charge that battery and control discharge if the application is not going to draw high currents.

Amazon.co.uk : tp4056

When you say you suspect you may have damaged the pouch cell, if you mean physically damaged the cell extracting it from its glue bed, you will be able to smell a sickly sweet almost pear drops smell, which is the odour of the organic solvents used in the electrolyte, if the pouch has been torn in any way. The actual chemicals are ethylene carbonate and dimethyl carbonate. Ethylene Carbonate is toxic. You should be especially careful to keep it away from your eyes. Any pear drops, fruity smell get rid of the cell.

 

[thelarkbox]

get a usb power meter, lots available and plug one inline with the dashcam to see how much power it draws. then you can do the maths to determine if a battery can last x minutes..

 

[Ajax]

I wonder how many of these fires are caused by folks finding a 2nd hand ebike and then sourcing their own batteries, or having the battery but sourcing their own chargers? eg charging a 36v battery with a 48v charger?

If you are buying a battery make sure its supplied with its dedicated charger, even if you already have a charger.

 

[AntonyC]

Overcharging ought not to be an issue, a full function BMS protects against it whether due to over-voltage, over-current or over-temperature.

Sadly your advice is still good advice because of the under- and un-protected batteries both in circulation and still available. But it's worth reminding ourselves because 'the wrong charger' is a complete red herring and not the path to take going forward concerning deficient batteries.