Battery Fires

[Nealh]

I remember my visit to Jimmy in N .London and in his worshshop had a pallet crate full of batteries from an ebike suppler that needed his attention. They had been there for ages and he said he will get round to them as and when.

We all know some basics. Don't: drop, kick, shot at, hammer nails into, put in fire, charge with wrong charger etc etc

It is when batteries are stored and when charged they are most deadly. I never experienced battery fire or house fire, but they do happen and none of us wants that. Some easy precautions could reduce risk nearly to zero.

It's not the charging and storage , but the use of a an incorrect voltage supply source or the stupid thing of idiots reverse charging.
We have heard on here where soem members have gon down the reverse charging route and some who omit the BMS altogether, fortunately they haven't come unstuck with their idiotic practices .

 

[flecc]

Speaking of battery fires, this should be fun:

Battery Electric Trains on trial in London for unelectrified branch lines use all day long. The battery fully recharges at the end of each run in just three and a half minutes! Being media no information of what battery type is used, probably Lithium but could be an application for Sodium-salt, given seven day and all day working.

Two video links, the second one with more information but more waffle as well:

Watch: Inside London’s new battery-powered train

A trial is taking place between West Ealing and Greenford of London’s new battery-powered train.

www.bbc.co.uk

Battery train begins trial in West London

Test trials have started on GWRs new fast-charging battery train, on the Greenford Branch line in West London.

www.railadvent.co.uk

I wonder if they'll refuse to carry e-bikes and e-scooters ?
.

 

[saneagle]

Speaking of battery fires, this should be fun:

Battery Electric Trains on trial in London for unelectrified branch lines use all day long. The battery fully recharges at the end of each run in just three and a half minutes! Being media no information of what battery type is used, probably Lithium but could be an application for Sodium-salt, given seven day and all day working.

Two video links, the second one with more information but more waffle as well:

Watch: Inside London’s new battery-powered train

A trial is taking place between West Ealing and Greenford of London’s new battery-powered train.

www.bbc.co.uk

Battery train begins trial in West London

Test trials have started on GWRs new fast-charging battery train, on the Greenford Branch line in West London.

www.railadvent.co.uk

I wonder if they'll refuse to carry e-bikes and e-scooters ?
.

I pray that one doesn't catch fire. Everything else has, so I don't hold out too much hope.

 

[lenny]

"It features four 106 kWh battery rafts"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_230

 

[Az.]

Woosh has had racks of batteries in storage, and he's been charging them from time to time. That's been going on for more than 10 years. He has never had a fire. Likewise, I've had at least 10 good batteries plus a pallet load of faulty ones stored at my house for more than 10 years. They never caught fire either. That sort of destroys your theory.

What theory?
I wish Woosh and you all the best. I am really happy to hear there were no reported cases of fire in Woosh warehouse, but it proves nothing. I hope mentioned warehouse wasn't flooded either. Please don't tell me it is a proof that floods don't exist.

 

[Woosh]

flood? we are on a cliff, in town centre.

 

[lenny]

"sales figures don't count ebike conversion kits, whereas the fire report data counts converted bikes as e-bikes.

But if we use this number as a rough guide, the 20 electric bicycle fires in that year correspond to 0.003% or 1 in 30,000 e-bikes "on the road" catching fire in that year. If only half of those e-bikes were still in use in 2022, the odds would increase to 1 in 15,000. For comparison, the same report states that around 1 in 1,300 cars catch fire each year in Sweden, including from crashes and arson, although electric car fires are much rarer (around 1 in 30,000). "
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/e-bike-battery-fires-should-you-be-worried.html

 

[Wayners]

I've just watched a UK news interview with London fire brigade regarding the rise of ebike battery fires.
It was said to be conversion kits that are the problem. That's not scooters or any other type of battery powered transport.
Every time I see images it looks to me like cheap chinese ebikes. Frames don't look like a mountain bike and some have those fat tyres on.
Also in the news is that poor lady that was hit by a racing bike ( not an e-bike) in London https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13384489/Pensioner-killed-bike-Regents-Park-cyclist-prosecuted.html
Reading article it sounds like a accident but that also added to the discussion about cycling regulations.

Seems battery or no battery bikes are in the news with the rise in cycling and many are calling for all sorts of new regulation. I'm not against safety etc but I fear the next few years could be interesting and the freedom we have now will be taken away.
Maybe walking will be the new riding.

 

[saneagle]

I've just watched a UK news interview with London fire brigade regarding the rise of ebike battery fires.
It was said to be conversion kits that are the problem. That's not scooters or any other type of battery powered transport.
Every time I see images it looks to me like cheap chinese ebikes. Frames don't look like a mountain bike and some have those fat tyres on.
Also in the news is that poor lady that was hit by a racing bike ( not an e-bike) in London https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13384489/Pensioner-killed-bike-Regents-Park-cyclist-prosecuted.html
Reading article it sounds like a accident but that also added to the discussion about cycling regulations.

Seems battery or no battery bikes are in the news with the rise in cycling and many are calling for all sorts of new regulation. I'm not against safety etc but I fear the next few years could be interesting and the freedom we have now will be taken away.
Maybe walking will be the new riding.

It's not the conversion kits that cause the problem: It's what'sin them and the way they'reinstalled. AFAICS, nearly all the ebike fires involve bikes with big direct drive motors or the more powerful fatbike type geared motors. These are the sort of bikes that delivery riders use. I'm not saying that it's delivery riders causing the problem, but I bet that there's a strong correlation between batteries catching fire and the owner being a delivery rider because there's a good chance that the delivery riders would use those systems.

These powerful systems run with higher currents, which obviously increases the risk of fire. My solution would be to properly clamp down on these vehicles. I see them nearly every time I go out for a decent ride or to the town centre. Watch any YouTube video of people walking around cities, and you'll see them all over the place. They're dead easy to recognise.

Also, if you take the population of all people,who have installed an ebike battery, some will not have a clue what they're doing, which is a problem at the moment. If people buy a ready-made kit, where all the connectors fit, it's unlikely that they can cause a problem that makes the battery catch fire unless they decide to change something.

Still, nobody on this forum has had a battery fire yet, despite members like Cwah, bless him, and I hope he's well, who used to blow up every motor and controller he had, so it can't be easy to cause a fire.

 

[maggie x]

I have just had my bike delivered, have unpacked it and chucked out all the polystyrene packaging as I have no space. Before assembling I have been reading the booklet, and one paragraph really concerns me.

It is an Eleglide M1 Plus 29, and the paragraph reads;

"Furthermore, avoid puddles, wet mud, swamps, water, snow and ice. Try not to use it on a rainy, stormy or snowy day. If the bicycle's electric parts (control unit, engine and battery) get damp, wet or soaked, it will cause irreversible damage or even a battery explosion.

The handlebar may be affected as the user steers or brakes the bike."

I had no intention of riding through soggy pastures or riding in ice and snow, but puddles? Mud? Rain?

Is this a normal warning which will come with any electrically assisted bike, or is my bike not fit for purpose leaving me at risk of fires?

 

[Az.]

Is this a normal warning which will come with any electrically assisted bike, or is my bike not fit for purpose leaving me at risk of fires?

Yes. It looks like your bike might catch fire when left in the rain.



On a serious note you might like to take some time and waterproof your bike. Sounds like Eleglide didn't make that effort.

 

[Nealh]

They are covering their backsides in case any thing goes wrong.
I ride my bikes all year round in all weather come rain, mud snow and sun, never yet had major issue .
Simply don't leave your bike out in standing rain or wet condtions , if planningto do so use a bike cover.

 

[maggie x]

They are covering their backsides in case any thing goes wrong.
I ride my bikes all year round in all weather come rain, mud snow and sun, never yet had major issue .
Simply don't leave your bike out in standing rain or wet condtions , if planningto do so use a bike cover.

Thank you. That is what I was hoping.

I have no need to leave it put in rain, am glad I can ride it even if the sun isn't shining.

 

[maggie x]

On a serious note you might like to take some time and waterproof your bike. Sounds like Eleglide didn't make that effort.

Thanks for the clarification, how do I do this please?

 

[saneagle]

Thanks for the clarification, how do I do this please?

That isn't really necessary. Your bike will be fine. Ride it and enjoy it. Just don't do anything extreme, like leave it out all day in a downpour, especially after riding it. You can save a lot of water problems by wearing a poncho/cape when it rains because it covers the whole bike, not just you, and it can be used as a bike cover if you have to park it in the rain.

If you're going to use it for commuting every day, including on winter salty roads, the only thing I'd do is put a gob of silicone grease in any exposed connectors.

 

[Nealh]

Thank you. That is what I was hoping.

I have no need to leave it put in rain, am glad I can ride it even if the sun isn't shining.

There is only one thing I would check on your bike, and that is the motor cable that exits the rear hub motor. Make sure the axle slot/cable exit is on the underside and the motor cable does exit out from the underside and forms a small drip loop .

Often we see with cheaper catalogue type bikes that the motor is fitted incorrectly and the cable enters directly from above , this allows any mositure/rain to run down the cable which then tracks into the motor.
This then causes rusting and motor seizure issues.

If this is the case the fix is an easy one and simply needs the axles nuts undoing to drop the wheel out and then rotating it by 180 degrees before refitting.

 

[Bobbo1260]

I wonder how many of these fires are down to sub standard replacement parts or the I’ll informed using higher capacity chargers to get a speedier charge time and cooking the battery in the process.
i always remove the battery to charge it in the garden in a vented steel box lined with 6mm superlux so if a fire starts it doesn’t burn my shed down.

 

[guerney]

i always remove the battery to charge it in the garden in a vented steel box lined with 6mm superlux so if a fire starts it doesn’t burn my shed down.

Sounds like a good idea. What temperature can 6mm Supalux withstand for 30 minutes?

 

[Az.]

Sounds like a good idea. What temperature can 6mm Supalux withstand for 30 minutes?

2000°C

 

[guerney]

i always remove the battery to charge it in the garden in a vented steel box lined with 6mm superlux so if a fire starts it doesn’t burn my shed down.

2000°C

If the shed isn't steel... would flammable lithium fire fumes igniting as jets of extremely hot flame... as seen in a Youtube video near you, set fires to other things, burning down the shed?