battery charging

billyboya

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It is ok to charge up a 36v 13Ah battery each time you go out on it, regardless how long a journey you made, as was told yes charge it every time. I did a short run other day and it only took 30 mins to fully charge up. so is it worth it on short trips

Also another quick question Pedal Assist. how do it starts, as I was at a hill other day and it was real hard to start pedalling, and I didnt feel PA start up. unless maybe I was in wrong gear I have 27 gears. so do PA starts at a certain gear or speed
 

matthewslack

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Nov 26, 2021
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It is ok to charge up a 36v 13Ah battery each time you go out on it, regardless how long a journey you made, as was told yes charge it every time. I did a short run other day and it only took 30 mins to fully charge up. so is it worth it on short trips

Also another quick question Pedal Assist. how do it starts, as I was at a hill other day and it was real hard to start pedalling, and I didnt feel PA start up. unless maybe I was in wrong gear I have 27 gears. so do PA starts at a certain gear or speed
When I'm commuting 5 miles round trip each day, I wait until under half battery before charging. Every 2 or 3 days it works out. Batteries do not like sitting full, so a bit of forward planning helps. If you know you need full range the next day then charge, otherwise maybe let it go a bit lower first.

PAS needs to see at least one magnet go past the sensor, so the pedals need to go around enough of a revolution in a short enough time to trigger it. Lower gears will respond faster.
 

sjpt

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Jun 8, 2018
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Probably not worth recharging after every trip. I tend to recharge when the battery gets down to half, or if I know that we are about to do a longer outing. If you do recharge every time make sure not to leave it on for too long.

If you don't have a torque system, pedal assist starts when it detects pedal rotation. On a modern system that may be around 1/4 turn of the pedals, on older systems it can be much more. I use my gears much the same as I did before having electrical assist; especially trying to make sure I am in lowest gear before starting up a hill. If you are in low gear the pedal turning will be much easier before the assist kicks in, and you'll get the assist kicking in in a shorter distance (same amount of pedal turn).
 

billyboya

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When I'm commuting 5 miles round trip each day, I wait until under half battery before charging. Every 2 or 3 days it works out. Batteries do not like sitting full, so a bit of forward planning helps. If you know you need full range the next day then charge, otherwise maybe let it go a bit lower first.

PAS needs to see at least one magnet go past the sensor, so the pedals need to go around enough of a revolution in a short enough time to trigger it. Lower gears will respond faster.
Ok Thanks for the info, Yeah my bike has 27 gears and im getting a bit more used to it now, I never know what cog to have it on at the 3 at pedals. I have 9 cogs at back and can tell when pedalling gets easier, But still confused with pedal cogs x 3

I will try to test PA in lower gears


Probably not worth recharging after every trip. I tend to recharge when the battery gets down to half, or if I know that we are about to do a longer outing. If you do recharge every time make sure not to leave it on for too long.

If you don't have a torque system, pedal assist starts when it detects pedal rotation. On a modern system that may be around 1/4 turn of the pedals, on older systems it can be much more. I use my gears much the same as I did before having electrical assist; especially trying to make sure I am in lowest gear before starting up a hill. If you are in low gear the pedal turning will be much easier before the assist kicks in, and you'll get the assist kicking in in a shorter distance (same amount of pedal turn).
I wouldn't know what a torque system is anyway. I just assumed PA starts when you get to a hill, not on level ground. Im still experimenting with a electric bike and 27 gears. thanks for info will test out bike in lower gears
 

Nealh

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PAS whether cadence or torque assist will work on any terrain, obviously lower the gear the easier pedalling is. For the front chain rings usually the large or middle one is likely best to use on flat terrain, only using the smaller one if one finds it hard to turn the cranks on hils. For the rear simply select the gear that makes riding most comfortable /easiest.

With the rear gears one has to think a head and change up for easier pedalling when either approaching a hill or coming to a stop. When about to stop say at lights or junction etc,etc always change the rear gears up to the 2nd or 3rd large cog so when starting off again it is easier to get going. If not used to gears then it takes practice to get used to them, forgetting and then changing gears when stopped means a lot of clunking and the pedal leg can slip when the gears finally change.
The front gears very rarely need using unless hills are involved, the middle one will make hills easy and the small one very easy.

Another tip is the easier it is to pedal ( faster cadence) using large gear cogs on the back means less stress on the knee's, if one uses the small rear cogs the cadence is slow , laboured and is known as grinding this can be detrimental to the knee's.

Cadence is a cycle term used to express pedal roataion speeed , this is equal to rpm. A slow cadence is approx. 60rpm or less , 60- 90 a moderate cadence and above is higher or very high cadence. To have an idea of ones cadence simply count your complete pedal rotations over a timed 60 second period of time .
 
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sjpt

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The front gears very rarely need using unless hills are involved, the middle one will make hills easy and the small one very easy.
Without power for me now it's the middle one makes hills very hard, the small ones makes them hard. With power, I agree.
 

billyboya

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PAS whether cadence or torque assist will work on any terrain, obviously lower the gear the easier pedalling is. For the front chain rings usually the large or middle one is likely best to use on flat terrain, only using the smaller one if one finds it hard to turn the cranks on hils. For the rear simply select the gear that makes riding most comfortable /easiest.

With the rear gears one has to think a head and change up for easier pedalling when either approaching a hill or coming to a stop. When about to stop say at lights or junction etc,etc always change the rear gears up to the 2nd or 3rd large cog so when starting off again it is easier to get going. If not used to gears then it takes practice to get used to them, forgetting and then changing gears when stopped means a lot of clunking and the pedal leg can slip when the gears finally change.
The front gears very rarely need using unless hills are involved, the middle one will make hills easy and the small one very easy.

Another tip is the easier it is to pedal ( faster cadence) using large gear cogs on the back means less stress on the knee's, if one uses the small rear cogs the cadence is slow , laboured and is known as grinding this can be detrimental to the knee's.

Cadence is a cycle term used to express pedal roataion speeed , this is equal to rpm. A slow cadence is approx. 60rpm or less , 60- 90 a moderate cadence and above is higher or very high cadence. To have an idea of ones cadence simply count your complete pedal rotations over a timed 60 second period of time .
That is a superb answer. It will help me lots. As I’ve never had a bike with 27 gears. I’m getting more used to it every day now. I suppose you heard I sold my old moped glad that’s gone I got let down on eBay but another person bought it for £150 cash. Glad it’s gone lol. But I have learnt loads here about it. But at least now with this electric bike I can use pedals as couldn’t on moped as I have long legs.

so will PA kick in on a flat terrain as I am still not clear or have experienced PA kick in yet. I tried a hill today and was in lowest gear but PA didn’t seem to kick in

I really need to check out on YouTube when PA starts I was told it’s to do with certain pedal speeds
 
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sjpt

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Even though they are called cadence sensors, very few actually measure cadence (pedal speed); they just act as one/off switches based on whether or not they think you are pedalling.

With normal settings PA should kick in regardless of whether you are on hills or flat. With a good sensor that may be as soon as a quarter turn of the pedals; older sensors sometime need quite a bit more. They'll usually keep powering for a second or so when you stop pedalling; brake sensors are there to cut the power off immediately.

You should easily be able to detect power kicking in. Have you ever felt the power kicking in; do you know it is actually working? Does the bike have a throttle as well? Badly adjusted/broken brake sensors is one reason it might just fail to kick in at all; another is misaligned pedal sensors.

If you aren't used to 3 speeds at the front I suggest you keep it on the middle one most of the time. If you know a significant hill is coming drop it to the small ring on the front. (I'm used to triple fronts, but as I have got older I find I use the big ring on the front less and less; effectively never.)
 

billyboya

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Even though they are called cadence sensors, very few actually measure cadence (pedal speed); they just act as one/off switches based on whether or not they think you are pedalling.

With normal settings PA should kick in regardless of whether you are on hills or flat. With a good sensor that may be as soon as a quarter turn of the pedals; older sensors sometime need quite a bit more. They'll usually keep powering for a second or so when you stop pedalling; brake sensors are there to cut the power off immediately.

You should easily be able to detect power kicking in. Have you ever felt the power kicking in; do you know it is actually working? Does the bike have a throttle as well? Badly adjusted/broken brake sensors is one reason it might just fail to kick in at all; another is misaligned pedal sensors.

If you aren't used to 3 speeds at the front I suggest you keep it on the middle one most of the time. If you know a significant hill is coming drop it to the small ring on the front. (I'm used to triple fronts, but as I have got older I find I use the big ring on the front less and less; effectively never.)
I know I have this problem like say I am riding normally, on a flat road, and then stop using the gears. slow down nearly to a standstill then turn throttle grip but nothing happens, but if i turn off the controller and turn back on throttle its works. maybe its because the motor needs to slow up before throttle works as been pedalling, I know like if you got normal gear on a flat, and then use throttle and if you start pedalling again you feel like you in a low gear but you not. as its because bike has moved with throttle. so have to wait until is slows a bit to catch up

You should easily be able to detect power kicking in. Have you ever felt the power kicking in; do you know it is actually working? Does the bike have a throttle as well? Badly adjusted/broken brake sensors is one reason it might just fail to kick in at all; another is misaligned pedal sensors.
I cant really tell if power has kicked in as I dont notice when I am pedalling anyway. yes the bike has a throttle. also it all should be set up from new. I have this G51 controller. I don't know what PO number is PA but he points to PA mark at end which is same as mine 1 digit

I was just thinking on this G51 Controller Display. do I have to have the PO number at a certain place to increase PA, as I have watched some videos and I see they are pressing the PLUS + button to increase PA I believe its 1 to 5. But I don't know which PO is for PA I was reading a manuel on this G51 and it seems PO5 is PA But to set up PO5 you have to hold down + and - at same time but you cant do that while cycling

P00: Restore Factory Settings Set this value to 10 and switch to next setting, the display items will show all contents and restore original factory settings.

P01: Backlight Brightness (1: darkest; 3: brightest)

P02: Mileage Unit (0: KM; 1: MILE)

P03: Voltage Class 24V / 36V / 48V

P04: Sleep Interval

(0: never, other value means display sleep interval) Unit: minute

P05: Power Assist Gear

0/3 Gear Mode: Gear 1: 2V Gear 2: 3V Gear 3: 4V

1/5 Gear Mode: Gear 1: 2V Gear 2: 2.5V Gear 3: 4V Gear 4: 3.5V Gear 5: 4V

P06: Wheel Diameter Unit: inch Precision: 0.1

P07: Magnet Steel Number (for Speed Test) Range: 1-100

P08: Speed Limit

Range: 0-50km/h, parameter 50 indicates no speed limit.

1. Non-communications status (panel-controlled)

When the current speed exceeds the speed limit, the PWM output will be shut down; when the current speed falls to lower than the speed limit, the PWM output will be activated and the driving speed will be set as the current speed ±1km/h (only applies to assist power speed, not applicable to the handlebar speed).

2. Communications status (controller-controlled)

The driving speed will be kept constant as the limited value.

Error Value: ±1km/h (applicable to both the assist power/handlebar speed)

Note: The above-mentioned values are measured by metric unit (kilometers). When the measuring unit is switched to imperial unit (mile), the speed value displayed on the panel will be automatically switched to corresponding imperial unit, however the speed limit value in the imperial unit interface won’t change accordingly.

P09: Direct Start / Kick-to-Start Setting

0: Direct Start

1: Kick-to-Start

P10: Drive Mode Setting

0: Power Assist – The specific gear of the assist drive decides the assist power value. In this status the handlebar does not work.

1: Electric Drive – The vehicle is driven by the handlebar. In this status the power gear does not work.

2: Power Assist + Electric Drive – Electric drive does not work in zero-start status.

P12: Power Assist Intensity Range: 0-5

P13: Power Magnet Steel Number 5 / 8 / 12pcs

P14: Current Limit Value: 12A by default; Range: 1-20A

P15: Unspecified

P16: ODO Zero-Out

Long press the up key for 5 seconds and ODO value will be erased.

P17: (Customer Designated) Auto Cruise Option. 0: No Auto-cruise

1: Auto-Cruise On. Trigger time of auto-cruise is decided by the controller.

P18: (K5S, APT Protocol Bound) Forward / Backward PAS Option.

0: Forward. 1: Backward.

P19: (K5S Protocol Bound) Throttle Level Option.

0: No throttle level. 1: Has throttle levels.

P19: (K5S Protocol Bound) 6km/h Cruise Throttle Definition. 0: Throttle has no 6km/h cruise definition. 1: Throttle has 6km/h cruise definition.
 
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Nealh

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The PAS will kick in any time you are unde rthe speed restriction of 15.5 mph, so if yours isn't working then there is a fault.
We need a pic of the PAS sensor/magnet to see if there is an issue, it may be incorrectly set up.
 

billyboya

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The PAS will kick in any time you are unde rthe speed restriction of 15.5 mph, so if yours isn't working then there is a fault.
We need a pic of the PAS sensor/magnet to see if there is an issue, it may be incorrectly set up.
Well it was all supposed to be set up by the factory, when I next use bike I will take a picture of the PAS. I have noticed on youtube you can set the PAS from 1 to 5 on P12: Power Assist Intensity Range: 0-5 in those settings above maybe mine is only on 0

I just assumed PA is only when you find it hard to pedal, like at a hill, as the bike has 27 gears and I leave pedal gears the chain on middle one. then just up and down the back 9 gears well I start off like Nealth said lowest gear, then click back cogs to higher gear as I pedal. so I can't see why you need the PA as surely it would feel like you in a lower gear then. or am i completely wrong here probably am. maybe the PA is working as it dont seem hard to pedal even on high gears on a flat.
 
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Nealh

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The bike is electric so Pas is the main object of the bikes system so that it (PAS) can work all the time when powered under 15.5mph, pointless having it on the bike if it doesn't work. When PAS doesn't work it is either a fault with the PAS or a wrong setting.
I don't know your controller or the P settings but one woul d think the P 12 setting may not be correct.
 

billyboya

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The bike is electric so Pas is the main object of the bikes system so that it (PAS) can work all the time when powered under 15.5mph, pointless having it on the bike if it doesn't work. When PAS doesn't work it is either a fault with the PAS or a wrong setting.
I don't know your controller or the P settings but one woul d think the P 12 setting may not be correct.
Well next time I go on bike I will check that P12 setting. I did put a link above for the controller display its a G51 he says at 2.25 into video P12 don't have to be set

 

Chainmale

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May 13, 2020
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Looking at the available info on this bike it seems a little vague re the throttle. Are you expecting the bike to go under its own power without turning the pedals? or is it that you don't feel the assistance when you are pedalling. What happens if you "ghost pedal" once the bike is moving, ie rotate the pedals without putting any pressure on
 

Plas man

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Daft theory , but have the PAS magnets been fitted wrong way round ? Try peddling backwards …
 

billyboya

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Looking at the available info on this bike it seems a little vague re the throttle. Are you expecting the bike to go under its own power without turning the pedals? or is it that you don't feel the assistance when you are pedalling. What happens if you "ghost pedal" once the bike is moving, ie rotate the pedals without putting any pressure on
the bike has a throttle so yes it will drive without pedalling it has 3 modes no Battery on it’s just normal pedalling battery on it’s pedalling with PA And throttle no pedalling. I can’t say I feel any difference when pedalling it’s just like normal but not hard to pedal so maybe PA is working then
 

Nealh

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You will hear the motor engaging as they are not dead quite, when PAS engages one knows 100% the motor is working as the pedal action is so much easier.
 

billyboya

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You will hear the motor engaging as they are not dead quite, when PAS engages one knows 100% the motor is working as the pedal action is so much easier.
Well I was going out today on bike today to test PA but Im waiting for a parcel which says out for delivery and I am only 1 here atm to collect it, so cant get out yet I have checked the PA at pedals and that looks fine I have attached images, also I check P12 on settings and it says 3 so I imagine its PA

I am deaf in 1 ear so maybe that's why I don't hear Motor much. But yes pedalling does seem easier I must admit. say like I am at very low gears to start a hill climb. and I also use throttle too, would also pedalling help at same time to give me a boost up hill

I am pleased with battery as I did a good journey last time on the bike never charged it up when i got home and its still looks quite full. some tell me to charge each time i use it, but some say leave it until its half full. so I am not going to charge it each trip. wait until half full I think myself anyway its wrong to keep constantly charging it each trip

This probably may sound silly but here goes lol am I right in saying PA just runs the motor only when you pedal, so if you stop pedalling bike wont move. its not like the throttle its say like a small bit of power to help pedalling
 

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Nealh

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The PAS is an all in one unit so should work.
Throttle will over ride the PAS so little point in pedalling except to look like you are riding normally for power.