Battery cells

[cyclenut1952]

I have an Oxygen ebike, the battery is Apache, would anyone know who manufactures the cells?
Many thanks

 

[Andy-Mat]

I have an Oxygen ebike, the battery is Apache, would anyone know who manufactures the cells?
Many thanks

Have you asked the company concerned?
If they don't want to tell you, you should possibly consider that probably they are not of good quality or name! Lots of unknown Chinese makes, possibly good and possibly not I am told!
Also, I read an article that maintained that some firms buy rejects to build batteries from for e-bikes......Worrying!
My bike/battery supplier told me right up front that the cells were from Panasonic, as their adverts also did, but I still looked to make sure....and they were!
Apparently Panasonic make some of the best cells around, and sell matched sets, that have been very carefully selected for similarity in all respects. Apparently that is very important.....as it makes "life easy" for the BMS!
I myself have only ever had Panasonic cells on two different e-bikes, no others, so I am possibly very biased....And happy too!
Though I have also never seen a true comparison test of different 18650 cells myself, but maybe someone here knows of a test that might help.....I would certainly like to see one!
regards
Andy

 

[cyclenut1952]

Hi, as a newbie I did research batteries and in the Oxygen brochure all the bikes had LG batteries which I assume are good. The bike I bought didn’t state battery make, on asking I was told LG but cannot find online any confirmation

 

[Deleted member 25121]

I have an Oxygen ebike, the battery is Apache, would anyone know who manufactures the cells?
Many thanks

Do you need to replace the cells or do you just want to know out of interest?

 

[Deleted member 25121]

Though I have also never seen a true comparison test of different 18650 cells myself, but maybe someone here knows of a test that might help.....I would certainly like to see one!

Battery test-review 18650 comparator

 

[cyclenut1952]

Out of interest and knowing I have decent cells.

 

[sjpt]

Have you double-checked for any labels on the case telling you what the cells are?

 

[cyclenut1952]

Yes no clue at all, I’m probably just been to fussy

 

[Nealh]

All of the big 5 or 6 make some great cells also they make cells not so great, you can't simply just say they are made by xxx company. The exact cell spec/designation needs to be known to make a statement to how good they are.
LG and Murata make the best 10a + cells in my view. Panny cells are good but there are better cells for cycle life.

 

[cyclenut1952]

Many thanks

 

[Andy-Mat]

All of the big 5 or 6 make some great cells also they make cells not so great, you can't simply just say they are made by xxx company. The exact cell spec/designation needs to be known to make a statement to how good they are.
LG and Murata make the best 10a + cells in my view. Panny cells are good but there are better cells for cycle life.

I have no experience of any cells ecept Panasonic on both of my e-bikes, but the first bike was about 1 year old when I bought it, and I sold the bike with the same battery, still working fine, at around 6 years old.
As far as I am aware, that same battery is still working, though I have to admit that I not seen the new owner for some time as he has moved away from the area.
On my new bike, the first battery is now almost 4 years old, the second is almost 2 years old. Both are working fine.
Reading some topics here on Pedelec over the last few years, gives me the impression sometimes that some bike batteries apparently last less than 2 years, with what I consider to be a very low mileage achieved.....or is that just the "bad" ones?
But I do not see people posting that such a short life is in anyway bad, and they apparently just accept it!
Conversely, I see as good as nobody posting as having anywhere near the life and usage that I seem to be able to achieve, though my new(er) bike is nowhere near to being as old as the previous one was, and the "load/usage" is taken by two batteries, not one. That may be good or not!
Though I also know that I treat my batteries in some ways quite differently to the more vocal posters here, and I also get told by them that my methods are basically stupid and a waste of time!!
But as they apparently work, and certain battery websites and manufacturers seemingly also support the same way(s) that I use to look after my batteries as well.....Which I find really great!
Well stupid or not, I will continue to look after my batteries in the manner I have got used to and my best hope is that they will achieve a similar life (or better!) than my previous one did.
On two e-bikes, I have never had to have a battery re-built or replaced, though the first bike battery needed a BMS card replacement at around 4-5 years of age, I don't remember exactly.
Andy

 

[Woosh]

Reading some topics here on Pedelec over the last few years, gives me the impression sometimes that some bike batteries apparently last less than 2 years, with what I consider to be a very low mileage achieved.....or is that just the "bad" ones?

just bad ones.
you have 40-50 cells in an e-bike battery, each has 2 welded tabs. Even a single weld tab failure can stop the whole battery.
Big brands like Panasonic, Samsung and Sony got there through production volume (they are the largest manufacturers) but also in quality control.
Batteries are chemical devices, they can break if subjected to high acceleration and or high temperature or short circuit.
Good batteries should last 6-10 years.
I always use Panasonic and Samsung cells in my batteries.

 

[Andy-Mat]

just bad ones.
you have 40-50 cells in an e-bike battery, each has 2 welded tabs. Even a single weld tab failure can stop the whole battery.
Big brands like Panasonic, Samsung and Sony got there through production volume (they are the largest manufacturers) but also in quality control.
Batteries are chemical devices, they can break if subjected to high acceleration and or high temperature or short circuit.
Good batteries should last 6-10 years.
I always use Panasonic and Samsung cells in my batteries.

I am very happy to have read your post!
With simple common sense it also explains a lot!
I felt before as though I was the only one who was shocked at the short battery life some people apparently get, and yet they remain "happy" with that! Strange at best!
It seems that they need to change their mindset and to expect better quality from their batteries, combined with a longer working life....
Many thanks and a happy New Year.
Andy

 

[flecc]

Reading some topics here on Pedelec over the last few years, gives me the impression sometimes that some bike batteries apparently last less than 2 years, with what I consider to be a very low mileage achieved.....or is that just the "bad" ones?

There's partially historic aspect to this Andy. When the switch from NiMh to Lithium first occurred back in the mid 2000s, a two year life or even less was commonplace. This was mainly due to the simple cathodes at the time, but in some cases the most powerful e-bikes were greatly exceeding what the batteries were capable of. I personally had one battery fail on a powerful bike at 3 months and its warranty replacement fail at 10 months, both unable to deliver sufficient current without cutting out.

The better manufacturers were rapidly improving this towards the turn of the decade with compound cathodes and better chemistries, but that brought in two price bands,circa £400 upwards for the better products but the cheaper ones still around for a long time at circa £200. The cheaper ones have largely caught up in quality since, though one still gets what one pays for to some extent.
.

 

[cyclenut1952]

Thanks for all replies it’s really interesting

 

[Deleted member 25121]

There's partially historic aspect to this Andy. When the switch from NiMh to Lithium first occurred back in the mid 2000s, a two year life or even less was commonplace. This was mainly due to the simple cathodes at the time, but in some cases the most powerful e-bikes were greatly exceeding what the batteries were capable of. I personally had one battery fail on a powerful bike at 3 months and its warranty replacement fail at 10 months, both unable to deliver sufficient current without cutting out.

The better manufacturers were rapidly improving this towards the turn of the decade with compound cathodes and better chemistries, but that brought in two price bands,circa £400 upwards for the better products but the cheaper ones still around for a long time at circa £200. The cheaper ones have largely caught up in quality since, though one still gets what one pays for to some extent.
.

That's indeed so. As well as major advances to the chemistry and construction of Lithium based cells there have big advances with the electronics and smartness of the chargers and battery management systems.
In the old days care was needed to ensure that the cells didn't run too flat or get over charged whereas nowadays the chargers and battery management systems take care of both of those issues automatically.