Batteries Charging Routine

StuartsProjects

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The Bosch powertool batteries have 3 connections, -ve and +ve on the outside and a central connector.

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Does anyone know what the central connector is for ?
 

guerney

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Why they advice against using extension leads?

...I always use extension lead :)
I was also wondering about this. Can't be because of amps, because not a lot is drawn by chargers. Perhaps there's more chance of a dicky connection with an extension lead?
 

StuartsProjects

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Could be a switch in order for power to be permitted to go to the pins.
I though of that, however the 18V batteries appear to have the sam central connector;

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And for those you can get a power adapter that is only 2 wires;


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Edit:

I have seen a video of someone using two of the 36V Bosch batteries to power a quad bike. He just put some solder on the end of a thick wire, flattened it with a hammer to make it into a 'blade' and shoved just two wires into the - and + terminals on the battery.
 
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Az.

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I was also wondering about this. Can't be because of amps, because not a lot is drawn by chargers. Perhaps there's more chance of a dicky connection with an extension lead?
I am starting to think this advice is given by people who do not understand process of charging ebike battery. It is more like copy/paste general knowledge from somewhere. In my opinion the further away from home you take battery and charger the safer you are. After all I don't quite like idea of my shed ending up as a giant fireball, but I very much prefer my shed going up in flames than my house.

Another thing is: "Do not overcharge battery". What does "overcharge" even mean?
 

guerney

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Another thing is: "Do not overcharge battery". What does "overcharge" even mean?
Reading the other threads... it seems after the green light appears, chargers continue to supply a small charge for balancing, which may or may not eventually shut off, which may or may not cause your battery to become incandescent with rage and burn your shed down.
 

StuartsProjects

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Perhaps there's more chance of a dicky connection with an extension lead?
Well there would be a greater chance of a dicky connection but then that would apply to all uses of an extension lead, so should sales of them be banned ?

Maybe the dodgy chargers you can buy (only £3 on Aliexpress) can fail if the power lead is dodgy too.
 

Az.

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Reading the other threads... it seems after the green light appears, chargers continue to supply a small charge for balancing, which may or may not eventually shut off, which may or may not cause your battery to become incandescent with rage and burn your shed down.
Manufacturers recommend leaving batteries on charge for a long time (6,12,24h) from time to time. They wouldn't be doing that unless they are confident it is safe. Is balancing cells considered as overcharge?

As for extension leads I simply can't see any negative aspects of using them while charging batteries.
 
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guerney

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Manufacturers recommend leaving batteries on charge for a long time (6,12,24h) from time to time. They wouldn't be doing that unless they are confident it is safe. Is balancing cells considered as overcharge?
It'd be nice if chargers indicated the balancing phase, went "Ping!" and switched off completely afterwards, but none do. I've searched in vain.
 

Woosh

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Small imbalances are inconsequential. You only need to leave it on longer (6/12/24 hours) if the battery seems to have lost some capacity, something like 20%
 
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Az.

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It'd be nice if chargers indicated the balancing phase, went "Ping!" and switched off completely afterwards, but none do. I've searched in vain.
Perhaps it is because (as far as I understand) balancing is done by battery not by a charger.
 

guerney

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As for extension leads I simply can't see any negative aspects of using them while charging batteries.
Unless extension leads are carrying high current and they're very long and used while coiled. Not a problem for 2A chargers...

"It's also important to fully unwind drum extensions leads. If you leave them coiled, they can overheat and cause a fire. "

 

guerney

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Perhaps it is because (as far as I understand) balancing is done by battery not by a charger.
Communication between the charger and the battery's BMS would be required, but two wires are sufficient for simple messages (morse code perhaps, or some other with error correction), periodically stopping current at the balancing stage to send/receive those messages, after the green light goes on, until balancing is complete and the charger is instructed to turn off completely. This could prevent some fires?
 

Az.

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Unless extension leads are carrying high current and they're very long and used while coiled. Not a problem for 2A chargers...
My point exactly. 2A is nothing as long as you keep all of it waterproof. Even if for some reason I decide to plug there a combination microwave and surround HiFi system, what is the worst case scenario? Fuse would blow up?

Communication between the charger and the battery's BMS would be required, but two wires are sufficient for simple messages (morse code perhaps, or some other with error correction), periodically stopping current at the balancing stage to send/receive those messages, after the green light goes on, until balancing is complete and the charger is instructed to turn off completely.
As far as I understand it is exactly how it is being done. Battery is not overcharged or at least theoretically it is not. Otherwise leaving battery on charge for 12h would mean 100% guarantee of an explosion.
 

WheezyRider

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I though of that, however the 18V batteries appear to have the sam central connector;

View attachment 53096


And for those you can get a power adapter that is only 2 wires;


View attachment 53097

Edit:

I have seen a video of someone using two of the 36V Bosch batteries to power a quad bike. He just put some solder on the end of a thick wire, flattened it with a hammer to make it into a 'blade' and shoved just two wires into the - and + terminals on the battery.
It may be needed for charging rather than discharge. Can you measure a potential between the power pins and the centre pin? On mobile phone batteries they normally have 3 connection pads, two for power and one for sensing before charge. If I remember correctly, putting a 10k resistor between the sense pin and ground enables charging of the battery if you are powering the phone without a battery, or using an external battery.

The red base in the second picture looks 3D printed.
 

guerney

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Even if for some reason I decide to plug there a combination microwave and surround HiFi system, what is the worst case scenario? Fuse would blow up?
The danger is melty cable which could ignite, even if you're under the 13A (and 13A fused) limit of common garden extension cable, if used wound/coiled. Microwaves with an integral grill can be 2kw, most are under 1kw. Surround sound systems can be anything.
 

StuartsProjects

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It may be needed for charging rather than discharge.
Maybe its a temperature sensor for the battery ?

For the fast charging the Bosch chargers can use, 1C, you would think a temperature senor on the battery to be essential. It would also make sense if the tool the battery was connected to could use the temperature sensor as a safety power cut off.

Also a lot of the small flat Lithium Ion batteries used in cameras etc, have at least one extra connection, often labled T.
 

Woosh

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How an ordinary user would know how much of capacity has been lost?
I did say 'seems to have lost', it's a typical question when someone noticed that the bars on the LCD battery meter went down more quickly than before. I reply that the first thing to do is to leave the battery on charge for several hours to make sure that the battery is fully charged and balanced.

Otherwise leaving battery on charge for 12h would mean 100% guarantee of an explosion.
agreed. The green light is a simple volt meter, it indicates that the charger voltage reaches 42V. If you want to balance the pack, you have to give it time. 15 minutes should be enough for regular charging.
 

StuartsProjects

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The danger is melty cable which could ignite, even if you're under the 13A (and 13A fused) limit of common garden extension cable, if used wound/coiled.
Indeed so.

In years gone by I used to install computer networks in factories etc.

So I often needed to use mains power tools etc so I had a 30M 13A rated extension cable, but to be sure, I would always uncoil the whole lot before using it.

Melty melty I did not want.
 

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