Assistance required - Used powabyke

hopper_rider

Pedelecer
Aug 22, 2012
194
0
Those voltages don't look promising. Was that after charging or after riding?
It doesn't normally make sense to replace the worst ones anyway. It would be best to replace the whole lot.

There's quite a few mail order suppliers offering exact replacements at various prices, so now you have to decide whether you want lead or lithium. A lithium one will be about £200.
That was after charging with the battery charger that came with the bike. Which of course is also to be treated with a degree of suspicion at this point. I think I will now individually charge with the ctek and do another reading with the multimeter to see if there is a difference.
If so next step is taking it for a ride.

I am not expecting to know the best answer too quickly
 

hopper_rider

Pedelecer
Aug 22, 2012
194
0
Thanks to everyone who replied previously.
It seems the batteries are indeed duff. They were not even holding charge prior to testing the bike. So will need replacement.

I registered on the Powabyke site to attempt to get advice on upgrades. But all they have been able to tell me is that it is a bike that have not supported for many years and to try for information elsewhere.

Something I did glean from the powabyke site is that the unit I have got is the same electrically as the powabyke trike. That suggests 20amp (if that was the info that everyone was after).
200W motor.
36V battery set up.

The controller is presently handlebar based and separate from the battery box.

Next step hints greatfully recieved. Getting newer SLAs would be easy but what would I have to do if I wanted lithium.
Do they need to have a new controller?
 

D8ve

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 30, 2013
2,142
1,294
Bristol
fit lithium and reduce weight and increase amperage even 9 amps would increase range. But more is better in range terms.
but change charger for lithium one as burning house down will get sarcastic coments from wife....:rolleyes:
 
D

Deleted member 4366

Guest

hopper_rider

Pedelecer
Aug 22, 2012
194
0
fit lithium and reduce weight and increase amperage even 9 amps would increase range. But more is better in range terms.
but change charger for lithium one as burning house down will get sarcastic coments from wife....:rolleyes:
Wrong gender..:eek: No wife, but neighbours might not be pleased.
 

hopper_rider

Pedelecer
Aug 22, 2012
194
0
I think this battery would make a good replacement because it's one of the few that can give the 20A you need. You might have to modify the rack to fit your bike:
36V10Ah LiFePO4 Battery 38120 Battery Pack with Carrier - BMSBATTERY
Alternatively, any of these type 12aH or more should do. Should be able to fit to your rack with about 5 mins work:
36V12Ah LiFePO4 Alloy 05-Case EBike Battery Pack - BMSBATTERY
Both probably about £200 to £250 with shipping and duty.
Do you know what sort of connection the battery is likely to require. Old battery connects to bike at the moment via a kettle lead type connection. Will I be likely to need an adaptor or something with a new lithium. Or is there a way of re-using the old battery casing with existing connectors if the battery could fit inside?

From a financial safety point of view, how safe is it to deal with China. Not meaning to offend, but it would be new to me. Are there any precautions that should be noted or special arrangements to be made. Sorry its all new to me.
 

hopper_rider

Pedelecer
Aug 22, 2012
194
0
I am trying to understand in non technical terms what all the volts/watts/amps mean.

Trying to compare with a car for instance.
Is the voltage equivalent to engine power? And amp hours to amount of petrol the tank can carry?
Unsure where watts fits into the analogy though

:confused:
 

Old_Dave

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 15, 2012
1,211
2
Dumfries & Galloway
How about this..

Amp hours the petrol tank size
Volts is the petrol pressure (volts force the petrol into the engine, more volts and it will rev faster)
Watts ... the rated horse power / energy of the engine (at the manufactures declared volts)

Hows that ?

There is a relationship between all the above, if we do a tiny sum Watts divided by Volts we then get an answer in Amps, so we know how long the petrol tank will last 'ish (lots of other stuff comes into it.. but its Thursday and we don't do teckie on Thursdays)
 
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hopper_rider

Pedelecer
Aug 22, 2012
194
0
How about this..

Amp hours the petrol tank size
Volts is the petrol pressure (volts force the petrol into the engine, more volts and it will rev faster)
Watts ... the rated horse power / energy of the engine (at the manufactures declared volts)

Hows that ?

There is a relationship between all the above, if we do a tiny sum Watts divided by Volts we then get an answer in Amps, so we know how long the petrol tank will last 'ish (lots of other stuff comes into it.. but its Thursday and we don't do teckie on Thursdays)
Yes, helpful. However maybe should just point out that this is in the virtual world so its only a virtual Thursday online :eek:

I know that whatever is done this bike is much too heavy to ever be any sort of performance machine even if all the electrics were completely redone. But just trying to understand what the limits of upgrading could be.

Its similar in setup to this
http://www.powabyke.com/asx/documents/user_5_speed_tryke_2.pdf

Its not a trike but the controller box and other bits of the bike are very similar and with the assumption (could be wrong) that they would have wanted to reuse parts across a range I believe its 20amp.

If I put in too powerful a battery for its setup, will I blow the fuse?
I have no idea where it is located at the moment. Its not obviously in the battery box.

The folder model has been discontinued for ages, so has the trike. The trike has been replaced by the cruiser which has a 36 volt 10 amp Lithium-Ion battery, but the cruiser has a 250W front hub motor whereas the folder model I have is a 200W front hub motor.

I dont want to blow the electrics and have to upgrade everything so just need to understand what the cut off point would be. Then I can browse for a good deal.
 

hopper_rider

Pedelecer
Aug 22, 2012
194
0
Sorry d8veh. I am not disregarding the suggestion you gave earlier but I dont know if that was based on an assumption of a 20 amp fuse or not
 

jazper53

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 20, 2012
890
18
Brighton
I bought a second hand powabyke folder for my nephew. I told myself in advance not to buy it, if it was not fully charged and working. But my nephew saw it and wanted it and I allowed my good judgement to be put aside.

It seems that even when it is apparently fully charged the battery does not have much power.

As it was well out of warranty, I opened the battery pack. Its like a ton of rocks. It contained 2 x 12v 7.2ah batteries and 2 x 6v 7.2 ah batteries linked together. Sealed Lead Acid.
View attachment 5148
How can I test these batteries individually to see if any or all are still effective? The charger suggests they are charged but they lack ooomph.

I will need idiot proof instructions as this is a new venture for me. I want to be able to just get the bike working in the cheapest way initially. Longer term it may be worth more time or money if the bike proves itself.

This could mean upgrading to a newer battery type eventually but I really just want to get it going with as little expense as possible initially.

I have read that a multimeter can be used to test batteries. I have one now but have never used one so I need A B C instructions. :confused:


Apologies to forum moderators. I have just posted this as a blog in error.
Going back to your original post. The Bike has yet to be fully tested due to battery condition. I think your best plan is to evaluate its running condition and that all electrical components are working by going for the cheapest, and simplest option ie: replace the batteries SLA with SLA
 
D

Deleted member 4366

Guest
Your controller is probably a 20 amp controller, which means that it will try to draw a maximum of 20 amps from the battery when you're going slowly up a hill or are accelerating from a start. Amps is like water flowing down a pipe. The more amps, the more water is flowing.

Rather than physical size of battery, we refer to how much electricity is in the battery in amp-hours (aH). A 10aH battery can give 10 amps for one hour or 5 amps for 2 hours, so imagine water flowing out of a tank, the faster it comes out (amps) the quicker the tank (battery) becomes empty.

Size matters. The bigger the battery in aH, the more current it can give, and the general rule is that the numbers are the same, so a 10aH battery can give 10amps continuously, and a 20aH one can give 20amps.

Your controller is probably 20 amps, so if your journey has a very long hill, where you'd be using 20 amps for a prolonged period, you'd need a 20aH battery; however it's OK to exceed the batteries rating for short times, so you can get away with a smaller battery. The lower you go, the more problems you'd have. A 9aH battery can only give 18 amps max for a short time and 9 amps continuously, so if you try and draw 20 amps from it, the chemistry can't keep up, so the voltage drops until it reaches 29v, when the LVC kicks in and switches it off. Leave it for a few seconds and the chemistry will catch up and it'll come back on. Many people with the 9aH bottle batteries experience this effect because their controllers are rated at 15 amps.

Some batteries, like the white 10aH one that I indicated in a previous post have special chemistry that allows a higher discharge rate. It can give 30 amps max, so it's equivalent to a 15aH normal battery, but it's much heavier and the same weight as a 15aH one, which cancels out its main advantage.

Even though your controller is probably a 20 amp one, most of the time, you'll be using a lot less current, so you don't really need a 20aH battery. The lower you go, the more likely you'll get cut-outs and the more you shorten the life of the battery. There's no exact answer to the minimum size from experience I would say that 12 aH would be the minimum, 15aH (or equivalent) would be better, but heavier and more expensive.

The 12aH battery that I showed you previously has a Kettle plug on it, the same as what you already have, so that particular one would be the most logical choice. The other one has a 4 pin connector, so you have to make a joining wire with the 4 pin on one end and kettle plug on the other, or cut the kettle socket off your controller, extend the wires and solder on the 4 pin connector that they give you with the battery. Unfortunately, they placed the 4 pin connector at the far end of the battery (daft) which is why you have to extend the wires. The 12aH has it at the near end, so just plug in.

Whenever you get a new battery or charger, you should always check with a meter, which way round the plus and minus wires are, otherwise you'll hear something go pop and see smoke - often lots of it!
 
D

Deleted member 4366

Guest
Going back to your original post. The Bike has yet to be fully tested due to battery condition. I think your best plan is to evaluate its running condition and that all electrical components are working by going for the cheapest, and simplest option ie: replace the batteries SLA with SLA
If OP is worried about whether the bike will work Ok, he should be able to test it by connecting the charger; lift the motor-wheel off the ground and open the throttle slowly a little bit. The charger should be able to give enough power to spin the wheel and the batteries should dampen the current to stop its fuse blowing. I've tested bikes using this method.
 

hopper_rider

Pedelecer
Aug 22, 2012
194
0
Well there you go. I hadnt thought about the possibility of being underpowered being a problem. Just the possibility of overloading things.

Just goes to show that I am either gonna have to do a lot more learning or give you guys the thanks you deserve for helping a complete numbskull. :eek:

I may go the China route if I buy lithium.
I know I said I wanted the cheapest route, but now I am thinking whether if I have to upgrade the batteries lithium would really be the best route.
 
D

Deleted member 4366

Guest
Lithium will work out at about £100 more expensive, but you save a lot of weight and hassle. If you leave SLAs for more than a month without using or charging, you'll soon be looking for a new set, which is why just about every bike for sale with SLAs has knackered batteries. You can safely leave lithium for several months.
 

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