Are the EU making a big mistake in limiting e-bikes to 25 Kg?

[mike killay]

Yet again, a passer-by has asked me about my bike. Nearly all of them are over 60. Today, this man owned an e-bike that he paid £500 for.
Swansea is very hilly and he complained that this bike of his will not go up the hills. He stated that his friends German bike (presumably a crank driver) is much better, but cost a lot of money.
It is becoming obvious that if e-bikes are to become more popular, the price will have to come down as many of those interested are OAPs.
At present, the only way this can happen is by reverting to SLA batteries. However, the weight penalty will take them over the EU limit. Most of my enquirers want in effect a low powered electric moped and throttles are an absolute must, particularly in hilly districts where any restriction on the machine putting out full power because of torque or stress sensors is a great no no, and simply will not sell.

 

[Scottyf]

I was under the impression that the following was generally applied...

Road Legality: The law relating to this dates back to 1983, and covers what you can legally use on public roads in the UK.
The limits are: 200W continuous power (250W for tricycles and tandems), 15mph maximum assisted speed, maximum weight 40kgs (60kgs for tricycles and tandems).
As long as your cycle is within these limits, and you are over 14, you can ride your bike legally on UK roads with no restrictions. This law is laid down in the Road Traffic Act, and the police have the power to enforce it.

Well thats how it is currently.

With the cost of most 36v 10ah Lithium based batteries becoming ever the more avaliable. And cheaply.
(Most these units will cost Circa £200) which should really be affordable to most of the older generation. Espcially if you factor in at least a 2 year life span with a 3 year pretty possible.

In any cases most people don't want a bike above the 20kg limit. With an average bike weight of 12kg its very possible to fit a kit or buy a bike that hits those requirements on the market and there's everything from bikes ranging at £400 kick off to above £3000.

I'd prefer the weight to stay at the same legal requirment really just incase people really do want to stay with the cheaper Pb batteries. But really there's not much need.

 

[Kudoscycles]

Mike-Scotty....I have no knowledge of a 25kg limit,that would eliminate 70% of the bikes in Holland especially those with long range batteries,my understanding is 40kg. The power limit of 200 watts has effectively been superceded by the 2003 EU directive which allows 250 watts. However restricting the weight to 20kg would increase the costs considerably and limit the range,most of the competitive priced,reasonable range e-bikes fall in a weight band of 22-27 kg,that allows for LifePo4 batteries which have a longer life but lower energy density than LimNo4. Kudos's most popular LifePo4 battery has a price of £208.80-I think Kudos is a pioneer in providing competively priced replacement batteries,I am pleased to see that many of the importers are now reducing their battery prices-the free market revealing better priced product!
Dave
KudosCycles

 

[NRG]

The 25Kg limit is part of the ETRA proposal AFAIK which will also increase the power output so giving those who want a low powered moped to climb hills exactly that...

 

[flecc]

The 25 kilos ia a proposition by the European parliament to accompany their proposed law for legal e-bikes over 250 watts. Bikes up to 250 watts won't have that limit.

40 Kilos is legal and suitable for SLA bikes, and indeed the Powabyke Euro model is an excellent climber with SLA and weighing near the limit.

But economic moped-like climbing is out unless the new unlimited power law arrives and lithium batteries suddenly get much less costly.

N.B. Crossed with NRG's post.

 

[amigafan2003]

Aren't removable batteries excluded from the weight limit?

I.e. what's to stop you having a small 36v10ah battery fixed on the bike and another in a pannier bag or in your rucksack? It'd be no different than carrying a 3kg laptop in a pannier bag for example.

 

[JuicyBike]

Thankfully BEBA are busy making representations on our behalf that include increased power and allowing throttles, other issues being considered in the proposals.

 

[mike killay]

When I give the impression that older people want electric mopeds, I probably haven't expressed myself properly. What the few I have spoken to want is to be able to climb hills with no more physical effort than pedalling on the flat.
If the weight of the battery is not taken into account, then most manufacturers will have no problem.My point was that at present, SLA offers a cheaper alternative to lithium. £200 can be a significant amount to an OAP

 

[Scottyf]

£200 can be a significant amount to an OAP

Maybe but when you factor in other forms of private transport its still cheap.
Ok its not cheap compared to the OAP bus pass.

Maybe get a petition togoether to get the oldies electric bikes ;-)

 

[bode]

The 25 kilos is a proposition by the European parliament to accompany their proposed law for legal e-bikes over 250 watts. Bikes up to 250 watts won't have that limit.

My eZee Sprint, which is a fairly standard sort of e-bike, weighs 23.5kg without a battery, 28kg with an eZee battery, but 31kg with my Ping 20Ah one, so I certainly hope they don't enforce that limit.

 

[flecc]

It wouldn't apply to the 250 watt Sprint Roger, as stated only to bikes with over 250 watt rating, i.e. unlimited power.

 

[bode]

Oh, yes, of course! Silly me. These are just the kind of distinctions that our police officers will have at their fingertips. I was envisaging a trip to the nearest weighbridge under close escort...

 

[banbury frank]

Hi the new EU law is up to 1,000 watts legislation is already in place for 1,000 watts and above

Frank

 

[flecc]

Oh, yes, of course! Silly me. These are just the kind of distinctions that our police officers will have at their fingertips. I was envisaging a trip to the nearest weighbridge under close escort...

It will be a miracle the day an average police officer has any fact of e-bike law at their fingertips. If they know anything it will probably be that e-bikes are legally bicycles.

A traffic division officer may be different though, some do know the basics of EAPC law.
.

 

[flecc]

Hi the new EU law is up to 1,000 watts legislation is already in place for 1,000 watts and above

Frank

Only for the low powered moped class up to 1000 watts I think Frank, and they have to be registered etc.

Legal e-bikes are still restricted to 250 watts rating, though it's recommended that will change.

 

[Kudoscycles]

Flecc...you are usually on the pulse with these things....any thoughts of what the limit will be and when it will come in....I suppose it could come in with EN15194 as a package?
I realise that there are some on this forum who seek higher power but I must say that the more I ride and understand these 250 watt hub drive bikes the more I think 250 watts is ok. What could be useful is a raising of the cutoff speed to say 30 kmh,I do find that 25 kmh seems to be exactly at the point of a natural crusing speed on the flat and am often backing off to get the power back.
Dave
KudosCycles

 

[flecc]

I think as part if the package too Dave. Unfortunately the proposal is the opposite of what you'd like, it's for no power limit at all and the 25 kph/15mph assist limit retained.

Of course the 25 kilos limit for the bikes over 250 watts will be a form of ultimate power limit, since it will restrict the motor/battery combination that can be used. Personally I think power limits are the province of designers rather than lawyers, so I like this part of the proposal.

The assist speed limit could easily be set to 17 mph on production bikes since the DfT have stated there's a 10% tolerance as with other speed limits. When calculated from the EU 25 kph, the 10% addition results in 27.5 kph / 17.09 mph.

 

[Scottyf]

The 250w rating is ok becasue none of them make 250w anyway.
The point is the 250w is a bit of a none entity and a very crude way of measuring the power.

All the hubs / crank and electric motors naturally make more watts when load is applied. If you only had 250w to help you out on hills some people on this forum would really be struggling.

The limit should be lifted becasue its not really a very good measure. The speed factor is the better way of limiting the power. Least that way you could get a bike that makes 800w-1000w or above to help cruise uphills like there downhills but limiting the speed would mean you could only go up at 15mph. Which is a safe speed.

 

[eddieo]

A 350 watt Bosch even with spare battery would be under 25kg, so that is what I would buy....

when this was discussed recently I am sure it was said that the 25kg limit was tied to bikes with throttles? No throttle no problem?

 

[Scottyf]

Even if the 25kg was applied it would just drive manufactures to give us lighter models...

But again it would be even harder to enforce.