Are ebikers saving the planet?

[Barnowl]

The planet doesn't need saving and I really dislike the use of the terms natural and man made in order to allocate guilt. Catastrophic global warming and cooling happens with or without people.
Global temperature change caused by aircraft vapour (Global dimming) seems well proven. I find it not unreasonable that other human activity is warming the planet up a tad faster than it might otherwise. Things are going to change and the important thing is survival. So I'm in favour of less greed, more innovation, and more frugal use of resources. I'm not in favour of jumping on the bandwagon and milking it for all it's worth.

So - Electric bikes a good thing.

 

[Northern Irelander]

Taking the notion of balance further, increasing algae growth would disrupt the balance of the marine food chain, but what the hell - you needn't worry about that in your air conditioned 4x4. It's amazing what 'great minds' can ignore when they want to achieve a preconcieved conclusion.

This is what I find amusing about the recent effort to discredit the climate scientists in the UK - what possible motive would they have for predicting disaster, if it wasn't founded in their available data? After all I'm sure they love their cosy home comforts too Or do they have shares in a windfarm? Or, to be less flippant, are their research grants dependant on their conclusions? Does the government really want to impose green taxes? Or would they rather allow the electorate to have everything their hearts may desire?

Errm....... so can you tell me which species will be affected as opposed to a broad sweeping statement?

no air-con in my 4x4, in fact I'm looking at a mod to make it switchable from 4wd to 2wd at the touch of a button.

I'd say I have one of the lowest energy bills in any UK household

 

[flecc]

It's all academic anyway, since we will not achieve the reductions desired with the hugely complex array of ineffective alleviations we aim to apply.

The only solution is the most simple one, a massive reduction in the population, and our failure to solve the global warming problem, if it exists, will automatically provide that reduction.

Ergo, I need do nothing.
.

 

[Straylight]

Errm....... so can you tell me which species will be affected as opposed to a broad sweeping statement?

no air-con in my 4x4, in fact I'm looking at a mod to make it switchable from 4wd to 2wd at the touch of a button.

I'd say I have one of the lowest energy bills in any UK household

Ok, you got me, I'm not a marine biologist, but agree with regard to the natural balance. And indeed to the adaption of that balance to changes. I just hope that the steps we might take are thought far enough through to ensure against any adverse consequences, owing to cause and effect. Seems to me that human beings often do what is expedient, with little thought to the long term. I also think that, if we're not careful, nature's compensation for our influence will involve our destruction, and that we have to start regarding ourselves as part of the system.

I meant no personal offence by any of my comments btw - simply engaging in a lively debate.

 

[Mussels]

It's all academic anyway, since we will not achieve the reductions desired with the hugely complex array of ineffective alleviations we aim to apply.

The only solution is the most simple one, a massive reduction in the population, and our failure to solve the global warming problem, if it exists, will automatically provide that reduction.

Ergo, I need do nothing.
.

Can we start with elimiating Geldoff and Bono? That would kill two birds with one stone, reduce the global population and remove one of life's irritations.

 

[Straylight]

It's all academic anyway, since we will not achieve the reductions desired with the hugely complex array of ineffective alleviations we aim to apply.

The only solution is the most simple one, a massive reduction in the population, and our failure to solve the global warming problem, if it exists, will automatically provide that reduction.

Ergo, I need do nothing.
.

oh very good....

I agree, the pessimist in me says that we've irevocably screwed ourselves, and that there are way too many people on the planet, but I still think there are things we can do on a personal level to at least soften the enevitable fall.

 

[themutiny]

Can we start with elimiating Geldoff and Bono? That would kill two birds with one stone, reduce the global population and remove one of life's irritations.

Two of life's irritations, surely. Could we not go for the hat trick and include Mr Sumner aka Sting ? Please?

 

[Tiberius]

I think the science stinks and is politically driven, something akin to the science that told us MMR jabs cause autism.

Hi Mussels,

In the rest of your post, you strike a balance of scepticism and precaution, but that's an strange comparison to choose.

The MMR-autism scare was the work of one scientist, and the rest of the establishment was saying it was *******. It was pretty clear to anyone who thought about it which side was right (I had a young daughter at the time and had no problem with her having the jab).

The scare was whipped up by the media, exploiting the poor scientific literacy of their readers. Oh, and guess what, the scientist who started it was getting paid by people with an interest in proving the link.*

So, all in all, that comparison would actually support the man made GW theory. The MMR-Autism story lines up quite closely with the anti-GW story.

Nick

*He was hired by lawyers acting for parents who wanted to sue the vaccine manufacturers.

 

[eTim]

*RANT ON*

I have no children and intend to have no children, therefore I have contributed my bit to reducing the planets problems.

However I am still penalised by the tax system, whereas those people who have selflishly had children are paid with tax credits (and other benefits). Which, IMHO, appears to be rewarding people for increasing the demands on the planets resources and increasing human-induced global warming (if it exists), what a very topsy-turvey world we live in !!!

Not to mention the foreign charity aid we provide to sustain unsustainable populations in countries that do not have enough natural resources to provide for their own population. Let nature take it's course, this also applies to the UK of course.

Where is the balance? And which government is going to recognise that they are going about things the wrong way and should be rewarding childless people? I think never is the answer to that one!

*RANT OFF*

 

[Conal]

no children

eTim

Aging population, no children, everybody retires, no one working?

 

[Mussels]

Hi Mussels,

In the rest of your post, you strike a balance of scepticism and precaution, but that's an strange comparison to choose.

The MMR-autism scare was the work of one scientist, and the rest of the establishment was saying it was *******. It was pretty clear to anyone who thought about it which side was right (I had a young daughter at the time and had no problem with her having the jab).

The scare was whipped up by the media, exploiting the poor scientific literacy of their readers. Oh, and guess what, the scientist who started it was getting paid by people with an interest in proving the link.*

So, all in all, that comparison would actually support the man made GW theory. The MMR-Autism story lines up quite closely with the anti-GW story.

Nick

*He was hired by lawyers acting for parents who wanted to sue the vaccine manufacturers.

It wasn't a good example just like seatbelts killing and Tabacco being good for you. There were clear scientific reasons in all of those to say MMR and seatbelts are safe whilst smoking is not, the data was freely available and governments didn't dictate what scientists findings should be.
In the case of global warming debate is officially stifled and raw facts are hidden for the public's own good. It seems that only adjusted figures are available without any further explanation.
If scientists were allowed to speak their minds then I'd be more likely to believe them. Global warming may be happening but if it is down to mankind then why is it shrouded in secrecy?

 

[eTim]

eTim

Aging population, no children, everybody retires, no one working?

I hinted that there should be a balance struck. It appears to me that gov'ts haven't yet woken up to the fact that global overpopulation is probably the biggest contributor to the planets problems and it's only going to get worse. There are no policies on the table that even consider tackling this problem. UK gov'ts have basically engineered themselves into an unsustainable position based on creating wealth based on western goal oriented culture, mainly driven by the American mindset, this has occurred since the 2nd world war.

State pensions and National Health are probably the two greatest achievements that may prove to be the biggest downfalls (other factors come into play such as uncontrollable immigration) for this country.

Reducing carbon emissions is based in reducing population growth, not just choosing greener technology.

 

[Barnowl]

eTim

Aging population, no children, everybody retires, no one working?

When I were lad we were told robots would be doing all the work and the only problem we'd have is how to fill our leisure time. That didn't quite work out.

 

[flecc]

Can we start with elimiating Geldoff and Bono? That would kill two birds with one stone, reduce the global population and remove one of life's irritations.

Yes please, a big, sharp cornered, painful stone preferably.
.

 

[NRG]

I hinted that there should be a balance struck. It appears to me that gov'ts haven't yet woken up to the fact that global overpopulation is probably the biggest contributor to the planets problems and it's only going to get worse. There are no policies on the table that even consider tackling this problem. UK gov'ts have basically engineered themselves into an unsustainable position based on creating wealth based on western goal oriented culture, mainly driven by the American mindset, this has occurred since the 2nd world war.

State pensions and National Health are probably the two greatest achievements that may prove to be the biggest downfalls (other factors come into play such as uncontrollable immigration) for this country.

Reducing carbon emissions is based in reducing population growth, not just choosing greener technology.

This is what the Horizon program hinted at although the biggest population growth will be in India and third world countries. China capped their population back in the 70's with the one child law which is still in place today and their population prediction is for a small increase.

Interestingly they highlighted one region in India that has a birth rate well below India's national average birth rate with families having between 1 and 2 children only they said this was down to improved education...

The program highlighted the fact that up until the 1890's world population had been approx 1 billion more or less for quite some time but advances in medicines and improved living conditions has seen the population explode in the last 100 years, currently just under 7 billion.

 

[eddieo]

The most heinous bit to me was the developed/rich nations buying up huge arable tracts in the most underdeveloped and poor countries (mainly African) to grow wheat etc.....

I mean are they going to defend this with troops? when the inevitable starvation comes.... Well we go to war for oil so I guess so

A virus destroying everything that's us.

 

[bode]

All in all, from what one observes, here and in the wider world, there is no real will to take matters in hand, just a bit of scratching of the surface of things. Many, if not most, people prefer to ignore the signs and trust that everything will be all right.

That's why I reiterate that we (or our desendants) are doomed. So do what you like (America certainly will). It will make no difference.

 

[flecc]

Many, if not most, people prefer to ignore the signs and trust that everything will be all right.

They have a point. This is the only age in which mankind has ever concerned itself with the world that we leave for following generations, all previous ages just living for themselves in their time. Perhaps we should just follow that time honoured example.
.

 

[bode]

Most earlier ages were not heavily industrialised on a global scale, and so had rather less scope to wreak havoc.

 

[eddieo]

When I were lad we were told robots would be doing all the work and the only problem we'd have is how to fill our leisure time. That didn't quite work out.

lots of leisure time for many due to economic mismanagement but unfortunately most have not the cash to enjoy it......A recipe for disaster