Are cycle lanes a good thing or a bad thing?

[frank9755]

I've always had mixed feelings about cycle lanes.

I have heard that they were invented by the Nazis in Germany in the thirties and made compulsory, to keep the roads clear of bikes. They were highly unpopular in Britain in the early days because the bicycle riding poor felt they were an attempt by the car-owning rich to bar them from the roads in a similar fashion.

When implemented well, as in Denmark, the Netherlands, Scandinavia, and occasionally in this country, they can be a joy. Yet countries such as France don't seem to have many yet have motorists who display a far more tolerant attitude to cyclists. When implemented poorly as is often the case in this country, they are an irritant and potentially dangerous.

I came across a pamphlet today on the excellent Warrington Cycle Campaign site which suggests that the result of cycle lanes is to give cyclists less space on the road. This is quite disturbing and supports my worst suspicions.

There is also an amusing feature on the site showing examples of particularly bad cycle lane implementations. While some are so bad they are funny, it always saddens me to see resources wasted in this way.

Frank

 

[flecc]

When badly implemented as most are in Britain, they are a very bad thing without doubt.

Motorists quite naturally expect cyclists to use the paths provided, unaware of the conditions on them, bumpy broken surfaces, strewn with thorns from hedge cutting, regularly blocked by groups of pedestrians who see anything that's not road as being pavement, dangerous side road crossing points etc. The list is endless.

And so we are placed in a situation where we are damned if we do use them, damned if we don't.

Like so many of the political moves to environmental responsibility, many of these paths are just tokenism.
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[fishingpaul]

I think anything that puts space, between cars and cyclists is a good thing.

 

[Capn_Phil68]

I agree with Fishingpaul and if I see a cycle lane then I often take a detour to back streets (nearly always a way through) in order to put distance between me, my bike and lorries, cars, buses etc.

There are exceptions to this though as cycle paths purposely designed to put real space between drivers and cyclists are great e.g. through green spaces.

Bit of a cheat, but I have been weighing up buying a kiddie trailer as a visual deterrent to mad drivers as I've noticed that I always gave them a wide berth when driving (also read it in the theory of big).

Think that it's quite important to take a pragmatic approach to road safety adopting a purposeful riding style with the aim of communicating a message of "Yes, I'm a road user too. Respect me and I'll respect you.", but when given the option simply go down the route less traveled. It's nearly always nicer, cleaner, more interesting and with far less Mad Max moments
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[nigel]

I also would use the cycle lane i feel a lot safer then being on the road but as others have said the condition of some cycle lanes can be poor and sometimes lots of broken glass thats when your glad you fitted marathon plus tyres.nigel.

 

[Ian]

Are those dotted lanes with the cycle symbol really cycle lanes? They're generally treated as car parks where I live.

 

[flecc]

Are those dotted lanes with the cycle symbol really cycle lanes? They're generally treated as car parks where I live.

The one good thing about these in my busy roads urban area is that when I move out of the lane to pass a parked car and bring traffic down to 15 mph or whatever, they can't blame me. They've only their fellow drivers to blame.
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[fcurran]

City's two-wheel transformation | UK news | The Guardian

Bicycle motorways planned for London - www.bikebiz.com

Interesting articles in Bike Biz and in the Guardian.

Regards

Frank

 

[flecc]

Thanks Frank. Just saw about this on the midday BBC London TV news.

London TV region members might like to know that they're aiming to get Ken Livingstone onto the evening London TV at 6.30 to explain further and answer questions.
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[fcurran]

It will be interesting to see how, where, when they plan to implement all of this and how it will be paid for etc. It will be a huge project and should benefit all London cyclists and thoses visiting the Capital.

Flecc could you keep us posted as to what Ken Livingstone says on the evening news.

Thanks

Frank C

 

[simonbarnett]

Hope it's genuine- timing rather close to London election time.

 

[frank9755]

I'm impressed by the quick response by Ken Livingstone to this post!

Joking apart - Frank, thanks for flagging this. I'm pleased that 20mph speed limits seem to be a part of it as, reading around on the Warrington site, they appear to be the critical success factor for these schemes.

Simon - there's no doubt that it is aimed with one eye on the election, to steal some thunder from 'Bicycling Boris'

Frank

 

[flecc]

Hope it's genuine- timing rather close to London election time.

True, but I don't think the cycling lobby are a very high proportion of the electorate, even in more cycling friendly London. If anything it's a vote loser, since part of the proposals are widespread 20 mph limits on cars, highly unpopular among the far greater number of car drivers, many of whom don't love cyclists either.

This sounds a lot of money, but we have had previous cycling expenditure from Ken of up to £24 million a year, so these new amounts are not far out of the ordinary.

Ken's record on support for cycling has been impeccable in every year of mayoralty from the very beginning, and it's showed in the astonishing growth, around 90% now since year 2000.

I want Ken back in because of his record, but Boris is also a cyclist in London, seen going everywhere on Bromptons. That's plural since he's had a few stolen, he reckons six. I doubt his support would be as strong as Ken's, but I couldn't see him reducing our benefits either, so we are safe either way.
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[flecc]

Flecc could you keep us posted as to what Ken Livingstone says on the evening news.

Thanks

Frank C

I will do Frank.
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[flecc]

Unfortunately the BBC didn't manage to get an evening interview with Ken Livingstone. In fact the London TV news was overcrowded with items including the large fire in Camden Canal Market, two major murder trials additional to the national one, and the Amy Winehouse grammys amongst other items.

We did see a repeat of the midday TV news item, Ken announcing the details we already know, and getting onboard one of the proposed 6,000 pick up and go hire bikes. There were six of these there, all in red. I didn't get a close enough look to be sure, but they looked like the Pashley Pronto, an English made consumer version of the Royal Mail's Pashley Mailstar bike. The consumer bike is all steel, with tubular steel front basket and an SRAM P5 5 speed hub gear, all designed for strength and long life.

I also checked the ITV London TV news, and they didn't get Ken either, but did get an interview with mayoral candidate Boris Johnson. Boris was supportive of the bike hire scheme, but reckoned 6000 bikes was too few, and that it should be 20,000 like the Paris scheme.

As I said before, with these two main candidates for mayor, cycling wins either way.
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[frank9755]

Didn't Boris once say something about a group of people enjoying wallowing in there own misery
Martin

Sorry, Martin - you'll have to elaborate; Boris says far too much for me to ever keep up with! What was the context?

 

[flecc]

Sorry, Martin - you'll have to elaborate; Boris says far too much for me to ever keep up with! What was the context?

Try as I might, I can't see this post by Martin anywhere?
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[frank9755]

He's deleted it. If I delete mine, then you will have to delete yours, then I'll delete this one!

 

[john]

He's deleted it. If I delete mine, then you will have to delete yours, then I'll delete this one!

Will someone be able to delete this one for me or will I have do delete it myself?

 

[flecc]

He's deleted it. If I delete mine, then you will have to delete yours, then I'll delete this one!

Go ahead if you want to Frank and I'll follow, but it's probably not worth bothering.

The thread will soon be lost to inconsequential history.

P.S. The deletions I really hate are when someone asks a question within a thread and then deletes it. Several times I've spent a long time typing a fully detailed answer and posted it, only to find the question has vanished.

Grrrrr.
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