Are cycle lanes a good thing or a bad thing?

I've always had mixed feelings about cycle lanes.

 

I have heard that they were invented by the Nazis in Germany in the thirties and made compulsory, to keep the roads clear of bikes. They were highly unpopular in Britain in the early days because the bicycle riding poor felt they were an attempt by the car-owning rich to bar them from the roads in a similar fashion.

 

When implemented well, as in Denmark, the Netherlands, Scandinavia, and occasionally in this country, they can be a joy. Yet countries such as France don't seem to have many yet have motorists who display a far more tolerant attitude to cyclists. When implemented poorly as is often the case in this country, they are an irritant and potentially dangerous.

 

I came across a pamphlet today on the excellent Warrington Cycle Campaign site which suggests that the result of cycle lanes is to give cyclists less space on the road. This is quite disturbing and supports my worst suspicions.

 

There is also an amusing feature on the site showing examples of particularly bad cycle lane implementations. While some are so bad they are funny, it always saddens me to see resources wasted in this way.

 

Frank

Edited February 10, 200818 yr by frank9755

When badly implemented as most are in Britain, they are a very bad thing without doubt.

 

Motorists quite naturally expect cyclists to use the paths provided, unaware of the conditions on them, bumpy broken surfaces, strewn with thorns from hedge cutting, regularly blocked by groups of pedestrians who see anything that's not road as being pavement, dangerous side road crossing points etc. The list is endless.

 

And so we are placed in a situation where we are damned if we do use them, damned if we don't.

 

Like so many of the political moves to environmental responsibility, many of these paths are just tokenism.

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I think anything that puts space, between cars and cyclists is a good thing.

I agree with Fishingpaul and if I see a cycle lane then I often take a detour to back streets (nearly always a way through) in order to put distance between me, my bike and lorries, cars, buses etc.

 

There are exceptions to this though as cycle paths purposely designed to put real space between drivers and cyclists are great e.g. through green spaces.

 

Bit of a cheat, but I have been weighing up buying a kiddie trailer as a visual deterrent to mad drivers as I've noticed that I always gave them a wide berth when driving (also read it in the theory of big).

 

Think that it's quite important to take a pragmatic approach to road safety adopting a purposeful riding style with the aim of communicating a message of "Yes, I'm a road user too. Respect me and I'll respect you.", but when given the option simply go down the route less traveled. It's nearly always nicer, cleaner, more interesting and with far less Mad Max moments

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I also would use the cycle lane i feel a lot safer then being on the road but as others have said the condition of some cycle lanes can be poor and sometimes lots of broken glass thats when your glad you fitted marathon plus tyres.nigel.

Are those dotted lanes with the cycle symbol really cycle lanes? They're generally treated as car parks where I live.

Are those dotted lanes with the cycle symbol really cycle lanes? They're generally treated as car parks where I live.

 

The one good thing about these in my busy roads urban area is that when I move out of the lane to pass a parked car and bring traffic down to 15 mph or whatever, they can't blame me. They've only their fellow drivers to blame.

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City's two-wheel transformation | UK news | The Guardian

 

Bicycle motorways planned for London - www.bikebiz.com

 

Interesting articles in Bike Biz and in the Guardian.

 

Regards

 

Frank

Thanks Frank. Just saw about this on the midday BBC London TV news.

 

London TV region members might like to know that they're aiming to get Ken Livingstone onto the evening London TV at 6.30 to explain further and answer questions.

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It will be interesting to see how, where, when they plan to implement all of this and how it will be paid for etc. It will be a huge project and should benefit all London cyclists and thoses visiting the Capital.

 

Flecc could you keep us posted as to what Ken Livingstone says on the evening news.

 

Thanks

 

Frank C

Hope it's genuine- timing rather close to London election time.

I'm impressed by the quick response by Ken Livingstone to this post!

 

Joking apart - Frank, thanks for flagging this. I'm pleased that 20mph speed limits seem to be a part of it as, reading around on the Warrington site, they appear to be the critical success factor for these schemes.

 

Simon - there's no doubt that it is aimed with one eye on the election, to steal some thunder from 'Bicycling Boris'

 

Frank

Hope it's genuine- timing rather close to London election time.

 

True, but I don't think the cycling lobby are a very high proportion of the electorate, even in more cycling friendly London. If anything it's a vote loser, since part of the proposals are widespread 20 mph limits on cars, highly unpopular among the far greater number of car drivers, many of whom don't love cyclists either.

 

This sounds a lot of money, but we have had previous cycling expenditure from Ken of up to £24 million a year, so these new amounts are not far out of the ordinary.

 

Ken's record on support for cycling has been impeccable in every year of mayoralty from the very beginning, and it's showed in the astonishing growth, around 90% now since year 2000.

 

I want Ken back in because of his record, but Boris is also a cyclist in London, seen going everywhere on Bromptons. That's plural since he's had a few stolen, he reckons six. I doubt his support would be as strong as Ken's, but I couldn't see him reducing our benefits either, so we are safe either way.

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Edited February 11, 200818 yr by flecc

 

Flecc could you keep us posted as to what Ken Livingstone says on the evening news.

 

Thanks

 

Frank C

 

I will do Frank.

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Unfortunately the BBC didn't manage to get an evening interview with Ken Livingstone. In fact the London TV news was overcrowded with items including the large fire in Camden Canal Market, two major murder trials additional to the national one, and the Amy Winehouse grammys amongst other items.

 

We did see a repeat of the midday TV news item, Ken announcing the details we already know, and getting onboard one of the proposed 6,000 pick up and go hire bikes. There were six of these there, all in red. I didn't get a close enough look to be sure, but they looked like the Pashley Pronto, an English made consumer version of the Royal Mail's Pashley Mailstar bike. The consumer bike is all steel, with tubular steel front basket and an SRAM P5 5 speed hub gear, all designed for strength and long life.

 

I also checked the ITV London TV news, and they didn't get Ken either, but did get an interview with mayoral candidate Boris Johnson. Boris was supportive of the bike hire scheme, but reckoned 6000 bikes was too few, and that it should be 20,000 like the Paris scheme.

 

As I said before, with these two main candidates for mayor, cycling wins either way.

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Didn't Boris once say something about a group of people enjoying wallowing in there own misery

Martin

 

Sorry, Martin - you'll have to elaborate; Boris says far too much for me to ever keep up with! What was the context?

Sorry, Martin - you'll have to elaborate; Boris says far too much for me to ever keep up with! What was the context?

 

Try as I might, I can't see this post by Martin anywhere?

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He's deleted it. If I delete mine, then you will have to delete yours, then I'll delete this one!

He's deleted it. If I delete mine, then you will have to delete yours, then I'll delete this one!

 

Will someone be able to delete this one for me or will I have do delete it myself?

He's deleted it. If I delete mine, then you will have to delete yours, then I'll delete this one!

 

Go ahead if you want to Frank and I'll follow, but it's probably not worth bothering.

 

The thread will soon be lost to inconsequential history.

 

P.S. The deletions I really hate are when someone asks a question within a thread and then deletes it. Several times I've spent a long time typing a fully detailed answer and posted it, only to find the question has vanished.

 

Grrrrr.

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Edited February 12, 200818 yr by flecc

What great news this is for London members if true. Has anyone further news about it? I can't imagine any filter down effect reaching Felixstowe alas.

What great news this is for London members if true. Has anyone further news about it? I can't imagine any filter down effect reaching Felixstowe alas.

 

Of course we still complain, since the widespread facilities we have are constrained by London's existing infrastructure, but we are spoiled in comparison with most towns and cities.

 

Today we've had added the news that large car and 4 x 4 owbers will have to pay triple congestion charge, £24 a day, and it's widely forecast that many will get rid of them, so more good new for cyclists. At the same time, the smallest and least polluting cars will no longer have to pay any charge.

 

As these policies prove to be successful, the congestion charge already being a huge success, they will inevitably spread to other cities, and eventually to towns, so there's hope for Felixstowe yet.

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Are cycle lanes a good thing or a bad thing?

 

The news about London going even more green for cycles is good news. However I think it will have little impact on places like the southwest (I mean past Exeter) were all we face is steep, long hills.

 

As for the cycle lanes we have here – they are a laugh.

It was interesting reading the thread because next time I am in town I will take a tape measure with me. I don’t believe the cycle lanes we have here are 1.5m wide – feels like 2 feet.

The only good thing about them is you can use them to avoid the speed bumps – but then, so does everyone else. It would be funny if it wasn’t so pathetic to see a 4x4 striding the safety island with one side on the speed bump and the other in the cycle lane. Obviously no one has ever told them they will actually do more damage to their steering and suspension than if they drove over the speed bump evenly.

Other two wheel vehicles like them as well like motorcycles and scooters. It’s amusing to see the local swarm (50’s) buzzing their way in and out of the cycle lane (avoiding the speed bumps) as it slows them down to the speed limit – I am of course referring to 20 mph zones

Then you get the brainless others who just use them as a private car park – either because their to lazy to put their car in their driveway, or so they can stop and pop into the shop. The one that really gets me mad is the ones that park to answer their mobiles. This gets a very visual shacking of my head and if the window is open a verbal outburst as I pass – I always try to make sure I’m staring right at them so their no mistake who I am talking about. On a carefree day, something like “dickhead” springs to my lips with little effort.

And it’s not just motorised vehicles that can be an issue - I once had a near head-on because some grandmother decided the cycle lane was a better route to push her baby carriage than the empty pavement.

I didn’t stop to see if the baby was air-peddling in the carriage

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It was interesting reading the thread because next time I am in town I will take a tape measure with me. I don’t believe the cycle lanes we have here are 1.5m wide – feels like 2 feet.

 

The only good thing about them is you can use them to avoid the speed bumps

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You've illustrated two things that are still bad in London, despite our advantages.

 

I don't know any marked 1.5 metre cycle lanes, most are nearer 1 metre simply because there's not enough road for wider ones.

 

And quite a few of our speed bumps are the platform variety which go from kerb to kerb, so there's no escaping them.

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Congestion Charging

 

 

Today we've had added the news that large car and 4 x 4 owbers will have to pay triple congestion charge, £24 a day, and it's widely forecast that many will get rid of them, so more good new for cyclists. At the same time, the smallest and least polluting cars will no longer have to pay any charge.

 

As these policies prove to be successful, the congestion charge already being a huge success, they will inevitably spread to other cities, and eventually to towns, so there's hope for Felixstowe yet.

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Actually Flecc you may be wrong for once(!) in your prediction.

 

Anyone who drives or rides daily in Central London will agree that congestion is as bad as ever, so I fail to see the success in that respect. As for pollution (being his new target, having failed on congestion) it's all well meant but misguided. Today's announcement is just Ken's revenge on Chelsea Tractors- political hype only. The reality is those owners will replace these with cars just under the 225 carbon limit (or older ones under a concession) which will keep the charge to £8, so the gain will be small at the top end. And, because he's a man of principle (!), he'll let you off the £8 if your caar is less than 120 carbon things- so maybe lots more of them from those who didn't like the charge. My maths says a small drop at the high end and potentially a big increase at the "clean" end just means more carbon and more congestion.

 

Don't believe me? This is how i'll probably and selfishly react to the new scheme. Presently I drive a newish coupe into the City. This is a gasguzzler and according to Ken as bad as a 4x4 though not so obvious. At home sits an older estate for weekend and family use with a big engine producing probably more carbon, but qualifying for the £8 rate in view of its age. So, if I'm self-interested like most people, I'll swap cars and take the old one in and increase the carbon in town. Maybe I shouldn't, but people behave like that when the charge trebles!

 

Of course I should find a nice replacement under 120 carbon things, but choice is small for those with a family to cart around. And I can't change my cars for 3 years under the company rules.

 

Maybe my Kalkhoff (when it arrives) will save my soul when I get to pedal in!

 

Don't get me wrong, I think I voted for Ken once, but this is ill-thought out political headlining- policy gone mad even after months of consulting.