If my memory serves correctly, the two wires are purple and usually just under the air scoop on the underside of the controller housing. I think this was introduced around 2009/10.
Approved ebike list?
- Thread starter Jeremy
- Start date
Indeed, and in the case of a Statutory breach it is down to lay people with no legal training to decide the level and nature of consequence. That is the point. In the case of a stipendiary magistrate it's not such an issue but in all other cases it's positively Medieval.
A person deemed of "good standing" is not necessarily either a good judge or capable of a balanced and proportionate approach. If they were, they ought to go off and be judges - and do the requisite training which is associated with same.
Having been though it, I suppose it is only reasonable to point out that the selection process for Magistrates is pretty rigorous, as is the training, both on and off the bench. Also, because there will normally be three JPs sitting, it is, in practice, difficult for any one of them to have undue influence. If anything, most of the criticism levelled at the Mags often seems to be that they are, generally, too lenient. Anyone who has waded through the Sentencing Guidelines (see here: Sentencing guidelines - Sentencing Council) might understand just how hamstrung benches are when it comes to sentencing!
Yes and No...EN15194 will sort it out for vendors. For DIY builds that are currently not illegal I hope there is an element of grandfathering to help them-in the grand scheme of things whilst this is personally important I just cannot see a government setting up an IVA style scheme for the small number of bikes involved,especially as they seem keen to cutback the kitcar IVA scheme.I think that Dave (Kudoscycles) meant by having only EN15194 approval that the whole business will sort itself out for vendors, and killing off DIY builds means more ebike sales..................
Dave
Kudoscycles
My comment was meant to be a bit tongue in cheek, but I suspect you're right about the unwillingness to allow a single bike approval route.
Right now there is no way to get a kit built or DIY ebike legal, they are all illegal. There's no means of realistically putting one-off ebike builds through EN15194 testing, due to the cost, and similarly there is no realistic way of putting them through the testing needed under BS1727:1971 either (plus the 200W limit might put off many anyway).
Anyone selling kits or conversions in the UK probably needs to make this clear to customers, just so they know where they stand.
Self testing / assessment, make a little book of compiled supporting evidence (bit like NVQ / SVQ 3), make and fit a suitable plate..
Have a nice cup of tea and watch Emerdale whilst rejoicing in the fact that there are lots of people with troubles far greater than your own.
@ kudos cycles:
Dave, you recently said you intend putting throttles on every kudos bike:
How does that sit with your statement that all kudos bikes are compliant - Surely the 2 are not compatible?
Dave, you recently said you intend putting throttles on every kudos bike:
How does that sit with your statement that all kudos bikes are compliant - Surely the 2 are not compatible?
TBH, that would probably be OK for a 200W UK spec ebike with a throttle. The BS for motor testing is really old and I very much doubt anyone is going to bother to cross check data. You might well be able to get away with a home compiled data pack plus a plate on the bike, unless the bike was quite obviously illegal (by being far too fast or obviously more powerful than 200W).
The old UK SI1168 and UK SI 1176 regulations aren't as specific as EN15194 as to how compliance can be demonstrated, so that does give a fair bit of wriggle room. As long as the data and test methodology presented in the pack was reasonably good and well presented it might well be OK, I'd have thought.
If I get time I might put together a strawman model for a compliance report.
I'm almost certain that if you ever get around to it... it would be a very model (well better than my ones drafted on beer mats, lol)
Stipes are rare beasts these days, a paid magistrate is usually a district judge.
They should have a decent standard of legal training - unlike the clerks many of whom are clueless.
But it's an awful lot of power to concentrate in the hands of an individual.
A district judge is the only person in the legal system who, sitting alone, can find you guilty and lock you up.
A crown court judge can lock you up, but he cannot find you guilty, he needs your guilty plea or a jury to do that.
Just a theoretical question.
I assume there is a central repository of EN15194 certificates? I.e. you wouldn't be up the creek if you had to prove you bike was legal but the seller/manufacturer has gone the way of the dodo.
C
Cyclezee
Guest
If there is anyone who has bought an eZee bike or eZee conversion kit from Cyclezee and does not have or has lost the VERIFICATION OF EMC COMPLIANCE document, or would like an additional copy, please email Cyclezee with your full name and address and we will post one to you.
I would just like to make it clear that eZee conversion kits as supplied also comply with EN 15194.
I would just like to make it clear that eZee conversion kits as supplied also comply with EN 15194.
There's no central repository as such, but each test house has to keep copies of all certificates issued, along with all the test data, so if the manufacturer disappears without trace you should be able to obtain a copy of the Type Approval cert if you need it.
This is all fine and dandy if you're dealing with an EU test house, even if they have facilities in the Far East. I suspect that getting a certificate from a Far Eastern test house might well be a very different kettle of fish. My own experience of trying to deal with a Chinese test house that set itself up to Type Approve ship radars was that they were basically just fraudulent. In essence they were, despite their supposed "equivalent to EU accreditation", selling certificates without doing any verifiable testing. It has to be said that the (Japanese) manufacturer concerned was rather ****ed off at finding he'd spent £80k on a worthless bit of paper and that his ship radar wasn't going to be allowed to be fitted to any UK registered vessel.....................
Sorry, but from my reading of EN15194 that isn't possible. Without knowing the bike weight, rolling resistance, and Cd (with rider) then it is simply not possible to assure compliance with EN15194 for a conversion kit. The idea that a kit can be EN15194 approved is, in fact, daft. For example, how on earth can a kit supplier assure this on a customers bike:
"4.2.3.3 Wiring
a) Wire ways shall be smooth and free from sharp edges.
b) Wires shall be protected so that they do not come into contact with burrs, cooling fins or similar sharp
edges that may cause damage to their insulation. Holes in metal through which insulated wires pass shall
have smooth well-rounded surfaces or be provided with bushings.
c) Wiring shall be effectively prevented from coming into contact with moving parts.
Separate parts of the EPAC that can move in normal use or during user maintenance relative to each other,
shall not cause undue stress to electrical connections and internal conductors, including those providing
earthing continuity.
Compliance with a), b), c) shall be checked by inspection. "
Of course they can't, the wiring on the particular ebike needs to be inspected by the test house to ensure this.
Or how about this (note the mention of "mounted on the EPAC"):
"4.2.3.7 Mechanical strength
EPAC shall have adequate mechanical strength and be constructed to withstand such rough handling that
may be expected in normal use. Compliance is checked by:
applying impacts to the battery pack mounted on the EPAC by means of the spring hammer as specified
in IEC 60068-2-75. The battery pack is rigidly supported and three impacts are applied to every point of
the enclosure that is likely to be weak with an impact energy of (0,7 ± 0,05) J. After the test the battery
pack shall show no damage that could impair compliance with this European Standard;
detachable battery packs are submitted to free fall at a height of 0,90 meter in three different positions.
After the test the battery pack shall show no damage that could lead to emission of dangerous substances
(gas or liquid) ignition, fire or overheating.
NOTE It is recalled to the attention that batteries had to fulfil all relevant tests to ensure safety. "
I'd love to see how a kit manufacturer can test this on every bike that one of their kits gets fitted to.
I could go on and on, as there are several other areas in EN15194 that simply cannot be demonstrated as being compliant without being fitted on the actual bike.
Hi all;
It is the DFT and Secretary of States inclination to grant anything in the market already with grandfather rights. This should also include a 250w motor with a throttle up to 15.5mph.
In terms of 'kits' we are still discussing how they would fit in legally, but the Government is keen to ensure they are not outlawed and there is a sensible way to confirm whats legal and what isn't
thanks
Mark
It is the DFT and Secretary of States inclination to grant anything in the market already with grandfather rights. This should also include a 250w motor with a throttle up to 15.5mph.
In terms of 'kits' we are still discussing how they would fit in legally, but the Government is keen to ensure they are not outlawed and there is a sensible way to confirm whats legal and what isn't
thanks
Mark
If that means a system for vetting kits, that wouldn't help those wanting to build their own ebikes without using a kit, though....
I'm aware of the views held, but so far they haven't done anything to address the law, and that is the key, critical, issue. The judiciary is divorced from, and independent of, government departments, so if a case is brought based on current Statute Law, as added to by agreed EU regulation, then the "inclination" of the DfT means nothing, and would make no difference to the verdict should someone be unfortunate enough to face charges of riding an illegal motor vehicle.
It is this total lack of action by the government to tidy up the law that is, as I have said earlier, the root cause of this issue. The government have sat back whilst a market in selling illegal motor vehicles has developed and furthermore has then turned a blind eye to their use, en masse, on our roads.
Also, I agree wholeheartedly with Miles, if the Government are minded to allow kit built ebikes to be made legal, then they must also allow DIY ebikes the same right. The key to this is, I believe, the need to establish a simple test that could be performed cheaply and easily, together with a set of easily checked limits (maximum battery voltage for safety, etc).
It is good to see you are taking on board the non-commercial implications of the current situation and how the changes could effect your existing customers as well.
But the point is that currently they dont appear to have any rights as not legal. So why should they be given grandfather rights which is usually only given to something that was legal before the law changed.
Still waiting for someone to show me positive proof where in law its says a 250w bike with a throttle that works above 6kph is legal?
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