Anyone heard of sustaincycles

[Ian]

Hear hear

It wasn`t cutting edge technology and investment in R&D that made the price of the Ezee sprint go up. It was good reviews.
Andrew

Ah, but it could be argued that it was the original R&D that enabled it to get good reviews. Chickens and eggs have nothing on bikes.

 

[flecc]

Of course there is another point of view: If there wasn't a budget end to the market, I for one would never have considered buying an ebike. That would also be one customer 'lost' forever. Can't imagine I'm the only one either.

I accept what has been said about R&D costs being one of the factors that can push the costs of 'cutting edge' technology up - but that's the same in very many areas, computers and cars being 2 prime examples. In my experience what tends to happen is that 'premium' models carry the cutting edge technology and as that technology gets outdated (very quickly with PC's ) it gets passed down the line to cheaper models so those with smaller budgets/lower demands/less 'snob factor' can benefit.

How many developments started life in in either F1 or top of the range Mercedes models before finding their way down to lower priced cars later in their life?

I don't understand what this has to do with my complaint about the ill effects of the junk bike market. I was complaining that there isn't the chance for R and D, not about what it does to costs. And technology being passed down is again nothing to do with the issue. The issue I raised is the way the market has been distorted by products not fully fit for purpose marketed at very low prices, and the ill effects arising from that.

I've got nothing against the genuine budget end of the market as I've repeatedly made clear. A bike like the Currie Izip can be marketed in the region between £300 and £400, since it's design and tooling costs were written off years ago, it uses a simple low cost steel frame and lead acid batteries.

But when some one presents an alloy bike with full front and rear suspension, hub motor and lithium-ion battery at the same price point, saying it's a quality product, I take issue, for that just is not possible.

In the many posts against my point of view, just about every irrelevance has been raised, but no real answers to the central point I'm making. The genuine budget market has customers, the junk market all too often has victims.

Again, I've said nothing about banning the junk products, though judging from the reactions one would think I had. I'm just trying to convince that this junk product band isn't viable and harms us more than it does us good. But if any of you want to volunteer as potential victims, feel free, it's your money. I'll just continue to try to depress sales of those products and expand appreciation of what good bikes are. Note, not very expensive bikes as some have assumed I'm saying, but good bikes.
.

 

[andrewelectricbike1]

but where was the cutting edge rocket science for the ezee range?
Agreed there are some really junk bikes on ebay. But hey I spotted the ebay £300 Cyclone back when I started researching and decided to scrape extra money to get the Giant because of the brand and mudguards. (simple tastes) Looking at the specs now, the cyclone was way too heavy for its motor and was for all intents chancing it.

Andrew

 

[flecc]

Our posts crossed Andrew, but see above for how that is irrelevant to what I have been saying.
.

 

[BigBob]

I don't understand what this has to do with my complaint about the ill effects of the junk bike market. I was complaining that there isn't the chance for R and D, not about what it does to costs. And technology being passed down is again nothing to do with the issue. The issue I raised is the way the market has been distorted by products not fully fit for purpose marketed at very low prices, and the ill effects arising from that.

I've got nothing against the genuine budget end of the market as I've repeatedly made clear. A bike like the Currie Izip can be marketed in the region between £300 and £400, since it's design and tooling costs were written off years ago, it uses a simple low cost steel frame and lead acid batteries.

But when some one presents an alloy bike with full front and rear suspension, hub motor and lithium-ion battery at the same price point, saying it's a quality product, I take issue, for that just is not possible.

In the many posts against my point of view, just about every irrelevance has been raised, but no real answers to the central point I'm making. The genuine budget market has customers, the junk market all too often has victims.

Again, I've said nothing about banning the junk products, though judging from the reactions one would think I had. I'm just trying to convince that this junk product band isn't viable and harms us more than it does us good. But if any of you want to volunteer as potential victims, feel free, it's your money. I'll just continue to try to depress sales of those products and expand appreciation of what good bikes are. Note, not very expensive bikes as some have assumed I'm saying, but good bikes.
.

Sorry mate I didn't explain myself clearly perhaps - it was only my first paragraph that was strictly in reply to your post. The rest was a general response to other comments on this and other threads.

I totally agree with what you say about the 'junk' end of the market being no good to man nor beast, but realistically anyone who spends ANY money on goods bought 'sight unseen' over the internet without doing full and thorough research first is just asking for trouble IMO.


------------------------------------------------------------------------

In the specific case of the Sustain Halley,and I imagine the Synergie Avanti(?) as I believe they're the same bike that we've been discussing here, it's performance has proved more than adequate for my needs so far.

I promised yesterday to post fuller details of my daily commute when I had chance - I have some details that I'll post now:

Monday - battery charged for New Forest Rally.

Distance to work 4.9 miles - first ~3 miles either downhill or flat - last ~2miles a long drag of a climb with 2 short steeper climbs. Managed to ride to the top for the first time.

Return trip via a GP's, Maplins and Tesco ~9 miles - first 5 miles downhill or flat last 4 miles generally climbing with several steeper climbs. I'll provide exact %ages for all the climbs in the next day or so.

Monday evening - not able to charge battery as I didn't have the charger. Buying the bike at the show Sustain had to send it on to me. (It arrived first thing Tuesday morning - Thanks.)

Tuesday - commute to work as described above - 4.9 miles. Down from 5 LED's to 4 LED's on my arrival at work.

Ride home - directly home tonight (didn't have to go shopping for ourselves or my in-laws like last night - 3 x 4 litre bottles of milk and two loaves of bread ) 3 LED's most of the way but the final climb which IS 10% defeated both me and the bike and meant a short walk/push to the top.

Last night the charger had arrived so I was able to charge the battery - took virtually a full charge of 5.5 hours and I did carry out one 'Mod'. I took the chunky off-road tyres off and replaced them with some semi-slick road tyres I had.

Performance riding to work this morning was quieter with less tyre noise and seemed 'sharper'. Whether that was a fully charged battery, road tyres inflated to the max or a combination of both I don't know.

It must be borne in mind that at 106 Kg (17 stone in old money) I am virtually at the maximum specified rider weight, the topography of the area means the next hill is never far away and as I am still recovering from a Stroke back in February my fitness isn't the best then any bike will be tested to the fullest extent.

Hope this info helps feed the pool of info and not fan the flames further

Regards

BB

 

[flecc]

Thanks for that Bob, the slowish charging is always a good thing with these batteries. The original tyres are one of my criticisms with most e-bikes, so I fully agree with your changing them, usually the biggest single improvement that can be made. Over 20 miles is a good result from that relatively small battery, and I'm pleased it's doing the job for you at present despite my generic criticisms of the cheap bike end of the market.

Keep us informed.
.

 

[sustaincycles]

A good bike can last a lifetime and be handed down through the generations, and always used to be. So doesn't the irony of a company calling itself Sustain while marketing items destined for a premature end strike any one else as incongruous other than me?
I've no objection to them being available, but let's be clear on their status and kid no-one they are what they aren't. Good value in their group they may be, but it's the junk components group they're in.
.

Sustain Cycles was established to respond to the need for good quality electric bikes at low prices, that ordinary people could afford. We share the concerns expressed at the number of cheap and unreliable electric bikes that have surfaced on the likes of ebay and other sites. Sustain Cycles recognises that price is often a barrier to adoption and one of our key aims is to make electric bikes a viable option for leading a sustainable lifestyle. We do of course expect our ebikes to last as long as possible, the motors mean less actual wear on some components and others can be repaired or replaced by local bike shops. Of course we don't want our customers to be having to send their bikes in for repair after a few weeks of receiving them. All our bikes are backed up by a clear returns policy. As you have already highlighted there is always going to be a trade off between price and component quality. We choose quality branded Shimano sets and solid frames. Some of our customers choose to upgrade their bikes, e.g different tyres, and we can always advise on specific requirements. Again, our batteries are quality tested and have a guarentee of 2 years normal use. In fact we encourage owners to buy a second a battery so that both batteries can be kept in optimal condition, our pricing policy ensures that replacement batteries are affordable too, typically costing no more than £140.
Over the past 12 months we have tested numerous ebikes but believe we have now got the quality/price balance about right. So far our customers agree. We are getting our Edison Folder independantly 'road tested' this month, the results (warts and all) will be made public next month.
More on this later via the sustain cycles website.

 

[nigel]

Nigel

yes thats right at least with your bikes people who cant dig that deep in to there pockets to fork out 1000 + your bikes give people a chance to try electric bikes from 300 pounds that has to be a good thing

 

[sustaincycles]

Sustain Cycles to release a new bike in December

We will be adding a new electric bike to our range next week 8th Dec'08.
More details to be released on our website Sustain Cycles - affordable electric bikes - folding and mountain bikes. shortly.
£30 off all our bikes until 12/12/08

Dave.

 

[dazzie]

Wow, talk about raising a thread from the grave