Anyone heard of sustaincycles

Came accross these, they look interesting but what do you all think

 

Sustain Cycles - E-bikes, Electric Bikes, Synergie, Folding electric bicycles, Sustainable transport, Environmental transport, cycles, in Harrow, London, Middlesex, UK, HA1 3TP

It's nice to see some compeition to the main e-bike players that are reasonably priced. And look like bikes people should want to buy.

As per another thread here, why do they all think that one bike size fits all though. When normal bikes are made in a large number of sizes.

 

Charlie.

No, I haven't heard of them, but they are the usual Chinese "parts bin" bikes that are also on the internet and from other suppliers. The parts are recognisable

 

There's aren't that many manufacturers of the parts used, and marketing outfits just do a pick and mix selection, give it a brand name and offer them at these low prices. The tears come later with no batteries or spares often, and many companies disappearing or changing name.

 

Lithium batteries come in various chemistries and qualities, and can be dangerous, causing fires at times. I wouldn't buy them from one of these unknown sources unless they gave adequate technical information, but they virtually never do of course.

 

That bike style and especially its knobbly tyres seem to appeal to many, but I wouldn't want it if it was given to me!

.

Edited June 29, 200718 yr by flecc

looks like a £100 quid full susser thats got an electric motor stuck on it. A full suspension non electric bike at less than £500 is a bit of a gimick aimed more at kids than serious riders, so to take a bike like this and stick a electric kit on it isn't the best way of making an electric bike. again it's more a gimick than a serious mode of transport. There are a lot better purposed made bikes out there.

Edited June 29, 200718 yr by Jim

sutaincycles

 

Ive found out who they are, the bike they call the halley is actually made by a company called Synergie and its there newest offering - the Synergie G2 (generation 2) Avanti with a lithium ion pack, 22kg, rear disc brake etc, you can see it here eBay.co.uk: SYNERGIE G2 AVANTI LITHIUM E-Bike Electric Bike Bicycle (item 250135094061 end time 02-Jul-07 09:25:43 BST)

but you reckon there no good?

Hi darrellt

 

I've no experience of them, but halfmedley has a synergie mistral which he seems happy with. I tend to think you get what you pay for, as with many things, and it really depends on your requirements . Have a look at the ongoing Lithium battery debate to see the views on those... .

 

Hope thats useful to you.

 

Stuart.

Edited June 29, 200718 yr by coops

Synergie

 

found this on the synergie advert for the G2 Avant bike and thought those debating on the battery subject may find it interesting

 

"Lithium Ion battery packs provide a much greater power to weight ratio than any other standard electric bike technology around at present.

 

 

 

You can expect somewhere between 400-500 discharge/charge cycles from the Lithium Ion battery pack. However, unlike our other bikes which use NiMH or Pb Acid batteries the Li-Ion battery prefers a partial rather than a full discharge. Please try and avoid full discharges if at all possible. In other words, when you get the bike back from a run, simply plug the bike into the charger until fully charged again." - Synergie

 

first time ive seen a company give the correct advice about lithium ion batteries.

Response from Sustain Cycles.

 

Hi.

 

As the owner of Sustain Cycles I'll be more than happy to answer any questions you may have on our range of electric bikes. We've been trading for almost a year and have recently launched our website.

 

Darrell - you were enquiring about the Halley , this is indeed a Synergie G2 brand bike. We can provide full specs for all our bikes. Both our Halley and Edison e-bikes have high-quality Lithium Ion batteries, which are actually fully detachable should you want to remove from the bike for security/charging or for swapping with a fully charged one if you're out on a long run!

We have invested time sourcing what we believe to be the best value e-bikes with the latest technology in the UK.

 

For anyone who wants an opportunity to test-drive our new e-bikes - come along to the New Forest Electric Bike Rally on Sunday 15th July. Sustain Cycles will be there with some specials on the day too! Click here for more details.

 

Feel free to ask me further questions on this forum, via our website or in person at the New Forest Rally.

 

Dave.

http://www.sustainproducts.co.uk/images/bnrs/sustain-cycles-logo.gif

http://www.sustainproducts.co.uk/images/tr.gif

New Forest Rally

 

Hi Dave and welcome to the Forum.

 

I don't seem to have your stand order yet or did you place it with Doug? If not and you would like to attend please drop me a line and we will make arrangements for you.

 

Very best of luck!

 

Best regards David Miall

Lithium

 

You can expect somewhere between 400-500 discharge/charge cycles from the Lithium Ion battery pack. However, unlike our other bikes which use NiMH or Pb Acid batteries the Li-Ion battery prefers a partial rather than a full discharge. Please try and avoid full discharges if at all possible. In other words, when you get the bike back from a run, simply plug the bike into the charger until fully charged again." - Synergie

 

first time I've seen a company give the correct advice about lithium ion batteries.

 

Hi DarrellT

 

Regarding "Please try and avoid full discharge if at all possible".

 

All decent Li Ion battery management systems will not allow you to fully discharge the unit. I would be concerned if my battery supplier were to make such a comment as this suggests there is no fail safe in their system.

 

Best regards David

Re the New Forest Rally

 

I don't seem to have your stand order yet or did you place it with Doug? If not and you would like to attend please drop me a line and we will make arrangements for you.

 

Hi Dave, Doug tells me we do have a booking from sustainproducts.co.uk can I assume that is you?

 

Best regards David

Bike Rally

 

Hi,

 

Yes we are registered under sustainproducts.co.uk

 

Look forward to seeing you there.

 

Dave.

looks like a £100 quid full susser thats got an electric motor stuck on it. A full suspension non electric bike at less than £500 is a bit of a gimick aimed more at kids than serious riders, so to take a bike like this and stick a electric kit on it isn't the best way of making an electric bike. again it's more a gimick than a serious mode of transport. There are a lot better purposed made bikes out there.

 

Excuse me for saying - but that's a bit of a sweeping statement considering you haven't seen the bike.

 

I was fortunate enough to be able to get to the New Forest Rally yesterday and meet and talk to the various firms represented there as well as take advantage of the 'demo' rides available. May I just thank everyone involved in organising the day for their efforts.

 

I ended up driving away at the end of the day with a Halley strapped onto the cycle carrier on the back of my car.

 

OK, I accept the fact that it *MAY* not be the 'Rolls Royce' or 'Ferrari' of ebikes - but it isn't 'Rolls Royce' or 'Ferrari' prices either.

 

What it does do is give people on a limited budget, like me, the opportunity to become an 'ebiker' sooner rather than later and enjoy the benefits of 'ebiking' including, in my case, inproving my physical fitness.

 

Having returned home to Swansea late last night I couldn't wait for this morning to try out my new ride for real.

 

I have been riding back and forth to work for the last few weeks but because of the location of both home and work (they're both at the top of hills) it's meant me driving to the bottom of the hill from home, riding most of the way to work and walking/pushing the last part of the trip.

 

This morning was the test - and guess what - I managed to ride ALL the way to work including the 'last part' which is quite a long hill with some quite steep climbs. I'll post again with more exact figures when I ghet chance to 'GoogleEarth' my route.

 

It's too early yet to comment on reliability but that's something that in my experience has little to do with cost - we've all had £500 cars that never let us down and £10,000 cars that are never out of the garage.

 

First impressions though are that it will certainly prove more than adequate for my needs.

 

Regards All

 

 

 

Bob

Thanks for your impressions Bob, very helpful. Certainly these bikes which I also saw at the rally are remarkable value for money. I look forward to your further information, and am particularly interested in the full charge range you get from what is a very small battery by most ebike standards.

.

Absolutely right Bob. As most electric bikes are made either in China or Taiwan anyway I've yet to be convinced where the extra thousand pounds or so for the more expensive machines actually goes, other than in the importer's pocket.

 

If I bought a conventional bike for £300 and another for £1300 I hope the differences would be fairly obvious, but with an electric bike I'm not so sure. Would it be made entirely from carbon fibre? I think not.

 

So here's to affordable e-biking for the masses!

The differences in normal bikes at differing prices can be more obvious, and I've seen numerous cases of premature bearing, sprockets and chain terminal wear in the cheap ones. It can get depressing when there's a succession of bearings going, bottom bracket, pedals, headstock, front wheel bearings etc., and in a known name bike, I've seen all this happen to one moderately used cheap Ridgeback bike within two years. Clearly the bearings aren't being hardened properly within the price constraints.

 

On an electric the situation is less clear cut as halfmedley says. If the hub motor is sound and is doing much of the work, the other components won't be subject to the same level of wear.

 

But I wouldn't disagree strongly with what Jim has said. As a highly experienced professional in the technical side of the cycle trade he knows what he's talking about. Clearly the Sustain bikes at those prices cannot offer their specification, including full suspension, Li-ion battery etc and still be made out of good quality long lasting cycle components. It's simply not possible, even for Chinese production.

 

However, hub motors are intrinsically reliable, so if theirs does the job, the bike side won't have to work hard so could survive longer as said.

.

Edited July 16, 200718 yr by flecc

I agree that there is some sense in what Jim is saying, but it is not very elegant for the 50cycles guys to be slagging off the competition in this way, especially with apparently no evidence! That's not the way to grow the market, or to build the premium brand needed to underpin their own premium pricing.

 

The fact is that there is a market for sub-£1,000 bikes or even sub-£500 bikes and, thankfully, some suppliers are trying to address it with products that can be sold at that price point. It is clear that, while these bikes may not have the best of everything, they are not necessarily pretending to and people can and do get a lot of miles and enjoyment from cheap(er) electric bikes.

 

Frank

Yes, such a posting from a rival is inappropriate, but sorry Frank and Bob, Jim does have the evidence, and it's not necessary for someone who knows this business to see the bike. All the evidence is in front of our eyes, and it's precisely what Jim said, a £100 bike with a kit tacked on, the battery clearly not originally designed into the bike. He's also right in saying it's not a good way to design a good electric bike, and just as right to say there are better bikes out there.

 

That all makes good sense. Sustain are representing these as quality electric bikes, and have said as much, and that is clearly impossible

 

Equally, there are a couple of new Synergie owning members happy with their new bikes, but at least two who've had them much longer have made contrary postings, saying it's a route they won't go down again, one very emphatic about that.

 

A good bike can last a lifetime and be handed down through the generations, and always used to be. So doesn't the irony of a company calling itself Sustain while marketing items destined for a premature end strike any one else as incongruous other than me?

 

I've no objection to them being available, but let's be clear on their status and kid no-one they are what they aren't. Good value in their group they may be, but it's the junk components group they're in.

.

Bob,

Saw the thread about the bike. Don`t take it to heart. "If it hasn`t got a bracket drive then it isnt an electric bike:D"

 

Personally I think the best way to get into ebiking is to get one, whatever the price and enjoy it. It is quite addictive. The going price for a cheap ebike is around £350? so you get what you pay for. Tesco do one, and so do Dixons.

 

I would love a Brompton ebike, but I`ll never afford one.. so I scabbed a Raleigh Pioneer 700c off Freecycle and bought a cheap 36v controller+throttle from the US. My hub is a reconditioned powabyke and that cost me £45 to get it strung properly. I can`t afford another set of NiMh at the moment so I plan to use SLA.

 

BTW a pannier from Aldi and a rack from Asda lol! There is even an old plastic chopping board to mount the charger

 

All the fun of the fair.. but it is still ebiking-in my case rusty ebiking:)

 

P.S how do you do a route on google?

 

Keep at it.

Andrew

Edited July 16, 200718 yr by andrewelectricbike1

Cost vs. Quality

 

There has been debate on this thread quality vs. cost and while I'll refrain from comment about the bike in question I will point out some of the less obvious differences between bikes at opposite ends of the price range. One cost hidden to the end user is that of R & D, the better manufactures invest in good design and proper testing of their products, something which is non existent with the cheap "parts bin" bikes. Another cost is certification, it is my understanding that to be sold in Europe a bike (Or any other product) has to bear the CE mark indicating in meets certain standards. In addition there are further certification requirements affecting the electrical components (EMC & RoHAS compliance) which seem to be conveniently ignored by some budget suppliers. I would be very wary of something as potentially dangerous as a lithium battery that had not been independently tested and certified.

Then, as Flecc has mentioned there is the quality of the cycle components, any one who has compared component prices will know that good quality parts are many times the price of those typically used in budget bikes, and I do know of a number of cases of failures of budget parts, one example being brake components which are simply not strong enough for the speed and weight of electric bikes.

I hope my bike isn't 'destined for a premature end' Flecc! Maybe that's the difference between expensive and cheap bikes, the 'hope factor' (being in inverse proportion to the price!).

 

However, compared to the initial outlay, most standard bicycle components can be replaced for a marginal cost. After 800 miles I've had to replace the rear brake blocks, cost me a fiver. Admittedly I've also put some Marathons on the wheels, but I don't think expensive ebikes come with them either.

 

I'd say the biggest problem would be if the motor/controller/battery part of the bike packed up, which would be beyond my (and my local bike shop's) ability to repair. There again, I don't think expensive models are necessarily immune from these problems, as other threads on this forum can attest.

After sales support, therefore, is good for peace-of-mind.

 

For all ebikes the biggest replacement cost item will be the battery - do batteries last longer on a more expensive machines? My lithium battery and charger (complete with RoHS stickers) are performing fine - without quantitative data it's impossible to make a judgement about safety.

 

There's an interview with Bob Watson from Synergie on the evuk website; here's the link Electric Vehicles UK (scroll down the page to March 2007) in which some of the issues in this thread are discussed.

 

Having droned on now for far too long, I would just like to say that I mean no disrespect to owners of ebikes whether they be cheap or expensive. As always it's caveat emptor, with the rider that cheapness or expensiveness isn't always a measure of worth - which is why forums like this are invaluable.

I agree halfmedley, and as I always say, each to his own and everyone should enjoy the fullest choice.

 

But the presentation of very cheap bikes in both the normal and e-bike markets as quality machines has done a lot of damage and restricted progress, so I think there's nothing wrong in warning of the truth, and resent such warnings being attacked each time.

 

I'm also always concerned that any mention of this by me and others brings the completely irrelevant allusion to more expensive bikes being in some way often a rip-off. Clearly those who say this either don't understand the mechanism of just returns in commerce, or wilfully ignore the facts. Two bikes that are separated by just £100 production cost at source will end up several hundred pounds apart to the final customer if all involved get the same percentage return. (including the Vatman).

 

Rip-offs are just as likely at the cheap end. Ask anyone involved at a high level in the supermarket business and they'll happily admit their most profitable lines are the basic cut price own brand ones.

 

As for batteries, a cheap Li-ion might last as well as a more expensive one, but often doesn't. Moreover, the cheaper ones of more likely to have the older cheaper formulations with the consequent risk of fire. Allotmenteer in this forum has experience of both of these with a budget end battery, and has very fully reported on that sad episode.

.

Edited July 17, 200718 yr by flecc

Further to my above posting, I've now read through that Synergie link, and to us it's completely worthless. We buy bikes, not future promises.

 

I've lived through over half a century of the battery industry and battery research bodies telling us of the miracles that are just around the corner, but they never materialise.

 

At the end of all those empty promises, the world's largest usage of high power batteries is for starting almost all the world's vehicles, using the 19th century lead acid technology. Two centuries later, none of the other technologies are remotely up to the job in terms of reliability and price.

.

Edited July 17, 200718 yr by flecc

...

 

There's an interview with Bob Watson from Synergie on the evuk website; here's the link Electric Vehicles UK (scroll down the page to March 2007) in which some of the issues in this thread are discussed.

 

...

 

Unfortunately, I find the EVUK website no help in the promotion of anybody's viewpoint except their own. They have no concept of balance whatsoever, and freely throw out all sorts of allegations with no basis to back them up. Add to that the incredibly early 90's HTML design, the absence of website structure, and their insistence on using lousy coloured text and punctuation in a shotgun style across all of the site (here's a hint - if you emphasis eveything you emphasis nothing!), you end up with something that appears completely uncredible (and almost unhinged IMHO).

 

In the interview referenced, it is clear that Synergie exploited the EVUK zeal for trumpeting anything electric - there is nothing objective, just the manufacturer's statements on the quality of their product. Accordingly, I find nothing there that counterpoints any of the discussions here.

 

However, compared to the initial outlay, most standard bicycle components can be replaced for a marginal cost. After 800 miles I've had to replace the rear brake blocks, cost me a fiver. Admittedly I've also put some Marathons on the wheels, but I don't think expensive ebikes come with them either.

 

 

A fiver for brake pads? Asda for £1.69. Sure the nut rusts but hey at 15-20mph the blocks don`t last long anyway.